Dave Hart Mr. Controversy

#503
#503
Using the word 'lady' nowadays in connection to a female sports team is antiquated. It's Victorian. I'm sorry but it is. The women's sports movement is all about cultivating strong, independent, smart, modern athletic women. Did I mention the word 'independent'? You don't do that by calling them "ladies." The word is out of date--it's 1950s, not 2015. I get that the many conservative, middle-aged southern ladies who've followed the team for many years love the term, and are used to it, and I respect them--but IMO it is a word that should be phased out of women's sports. I'm curious to know if the Lady Vol diehards support equal pay for women--equal pay for equal work.
 
#504
#504
Most if not all supporters of taking the Lady Vols name away hate womens sports and are just trolling.........nobody that cares agrees with taking the logo and name away.
 
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#505
#505
armchair said:
Using the word 'lady' nowadays in connection to a female sports team is antiquated. It's Victorian. I'm sorry but it is. The women's sports movement is all about cultivating strong, independent, smart, modern athletic women. Did I mention the word 'independent'? You don't do that by calling them "ladies." The word is out of date--it's 1950s, not 2015. I get that the many conservative, middle-aged southern ladies who've followed the team for many years love the term, and are used to it, and I respect them--but IMO it is a word that should be phased out of women's sports. I'm curious to know if the Lady Vol diehards support equal pay for women--equal pay for equal work.
Click to expand...

Not okay to use lady,but okay to use female and women's to describe a team or movement? In 2015,the top definition for lady from Merriam Webster is--a woman having proprietary rights or authority especially as a feudal superior. As basketball contests are small feuds between two teams,I would think the term "lady" would be appropriate for a team that has shown superiority over most other teams for many years.
 
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#506
#506
VollyParton said:
You are making stuff up and being pretty nasty about it, as well as spelling badly, hopefully intentionally. That's enough to make you a troll.
Ok, where I heard about the use of atheletic equip & trainers - from a UTK faculty member.
Would I rather the ad struggle a little longer financially to keep a logo that very few universities subscribe to? - NOBODY has a logo like the Lady Vols logo. It's worth gold in p.r. alone to UT. Over the years, I have spent twice as much as I normally would have for UT gear because I buy both logos, so it seems to me that the LV logo would be an extra revenue stream. I have no idea whether it is some financial burden for UT to maintain it, but I doubt it is. Perhaps you have some numbers on that? If so, presenting that info would be a way for you to actually contribute something to the conversation as opposed to trolling.
Click to expand...

Probably has to do with me speaking into my phone to respond to all of you angry hens. Of course that has nothing to do with what the discussion is about. Another sign of someone feeling challenged is they divert the discussion to something that has nothing to do with the topic. You are not a teacher or instructor to me, so your superiority bs really means nothing. Kinda like you speaking for the group suggesting that I am 'trolling'. Truth is you nor anyone else is important enough to speak for one person, so try sticking with that Nancy.

As for the numbers, it's common sense. Some of you want to trivialize the cost associated with 2 brands claiming it's a 'couple of T-shirts' and what not. But anyone with any business acumen understands mass quantity merchandising carries a fairly heavy cost. And there was someone above stating that he/she had not seen any evidence in that we are fiscally better off since Hart has been here compared to when he arrived. I highly doubt this poster sought out this information, but I found this with a brief google search. Apparently, her assessment is 'surprisingly' wrong. This includes the lump sum payment of over $7 million to cover Dooley and his assistants ridiculous buyouts(thanks to Hamilton).

https://www.nashvillepost.com/blogs...rts_athletics_budget_surplus_for_most_recent_

Very similar to you guys wearing tin foil hats about some supposed lie that Hart told after someone provided a link suggesting otherwise. You guys find blogs and other less than credible sources to support your agendas. To me gossipers are trolls. They are dishonest people that exaggerate what they hear to fit their agenda. One of the agendas apparently is to vilify a guy who was handed a crap sandwich 3 years ago and was told to turn it into a filet. Just another section of pseudo intellectual mush heads that think they understand the big picture but apparently don't. Like I said, for 'fans' like you, I wish women's sports had to start self sustaining itself and not drag the football program down with its losses every year.
 
#507
#507
sanddune50 said:
Probably has to do with me speaking into my phone to respond to all of you angry hens. Of course that has nothing to do with what the discussion is about. Another sign of someone feeling challenged is they divert the discussion to something that has nothing to do with the topic. You are not a teacher or instructor to me, so your superiority bs really means nothing. Kinda like you speaking for the group suggesting that I am 'trolling'. Truth is you nor anyone else is important enough to speak for one person, so try sticking with that Nancy.
Click to expand...

I just don't follow what you are talking about. What you call superiority bs may just be the way I talk, as I don't feel superior, I just disagree. I don't know why you think I think I am speaking for the group. It seems to me there are a lot of different opinions and focal points here. Maybe that incudes, you, too, but it seems to me you are just trying to stir up crap.


sanddune50 said:
As for the numbers, it's common sense. Some of you want to trivialize the cost associated with 2 brands claiming it's a 'couple of T-shirts' and what not. But anyone with any business acumen understands mass quantity merchandising carries a fairly heavy cost.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Think about it - they are keeping the logo for -one- team now. Please show a common sense or business acumen rationale for that.

sanddune50 said:
And there was someone above stating that he/she had not seen any evidence in that we are fiscally better off since Hart has been here compared to when he arrived. I highly doubt this poster sought out this information, but I found this with a brief google search. Apparently, her assessment is 'surprisingly' wrong. This includes the lump sum payment of over $7 million to cover Dooley and his assistants ridiculous buyouts(thanks to Hamilton).

https://www.nashvillepost.com/blogs...rts_athletics_budget_surplus_for_most_recent_

Very similar to you guys wearing tin foil hats about some supposed lie that Hart told after someone provided a link suggesting otherwise. You guys find blogs and other less than credible sources to support your agendas. To me gossipers are trolls. They are dishonest people that exaggerate what they hear to fit their agenda. One of the agendas apparently is to vilify a guy who was handed a crap sandwich 3 years ago and was told to turn it into a filet. Just another section of pseudo intellectual mush heads that think they understand the big picture but apparently don't. Like I said, for 'fans' like you, I wish women's sports had to start self sustaining itself and not drag the football program down with its losses every year.
Click to expand...
 
#508
#508
sanddune50 said:
Probably has to do with me speaking into my phone to respond to all of you angry hens. Of course that has nothing to do with what the discussion is about. Another sign of someone feeling challenged is they divert the discussion to something that has nothing to do with the topic. You are not a teacher or instructor to me, so your superiority bs really means nothing. Kinda like you speaking for the group suggesting that I am 'trolling'. Truth is you nor anyone else is important enough to speak for one person, so try sticking with that Nancy.

As for the numbers, it's common sense. Some of you want to trivialize the cost associated with 2 brands claiming it's a 'couple of T-shirts' and what not. But anyone with any business acumen understands mass quantity merchandising carries a fairly heavy cost. And there was someone above stating that he/she had not seen any evidence in that we are fiscally better off since Hart has been here compared to when he arrived. I highly doubt this poster sought out this information, but I found this with a brief google search. Apparently, her assessment is 'surprisingly' wrong. This includes the lump sum payment of over $7 million to cover Dooley and his assistants ridiculous buyouts(thanks to Hamilton).

https://www.nashvillepost.com/blogs...rts_athletics_budget_surplus_for_most_recent_

Very similar to you guys wearing tin foil hats about some supposed lie that Hart told after someone provided a link suggesting otherwise. You guys find blogs and other less than credible sources to support your agendas. To me gossipers are trolls. They are dishonest people that exaggerate what they hear to fit their agenda. One of the agendas apparently is to vilify a guy who was handed a crap sandwich 3 years ago and was told to turn it into a filet. Just another section of pseudo intellectual mush heads that think they understand the big picture but apparently don't. Like I said, for 'fans' like you, I wish women's sports had to start self sustaining itself and not drag the football program down with its losses every year.
Click to expand...
I don't think you want to go down that self sustaining road because whoops there would only be 3 sports at UT. Football, men's BB and women's BB and in some years probably only one sport. Funny, you being the one talking about changing subjects. That's all you have done since you started this drivel.
 
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#509
#509
armchair said:
Using the word 'lady' nowadays in connection to a female sports team is antiquated. It's Victorian. I'm sorry but it is. The women's sports movement is all about cultivating strong, independent, smart, modern athletic women. Did I mention the word 'independent'? You don't do that by calling them "ladies." The word is out of date--it's 1950s, not 2015. I get that the many conservative, middle-aged southern ladies who've followed the team for many years love the term, and are used to it, and I respect them--but IMO it is a word that should be phased out of women's sports. I'm curious to know if the Lady Vol diehards support equal pay for women--equal pay for equal work.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be appropriate for the women's teams to decide if the name "Lady" is antiquated? Why two non VOL males making that decision? Not everything associated with tradition is a bad thing. And, the term Lady was around long before Queen Victoria.
 
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#511
#511
I am going to officially petition the University to change the Lady VOLS' name to either Female VOLS, Women VOLS or Double X VOLS. These names are much less antiquated.
 
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#512
#512
armchair said:
Using the word 'lady' nowadays in connection to a female sports team is antiquated. It's Victorian. I'm sorry but it is. The women's sports movement is all about cultivating strong, independent, smart, modern athletic women. Did I mention the word 'independent'? You don't do that by calling them "ladies." The word is out of date--it's 1950s, not 2015. I get that the many conservative, middle-aged southern ladies who've followed the team for many years love the term, and are used to it, and I respect them--but IMO it is a word that should be phased out of women's sports. I'm curious to know if the Lady Vol diehards support equal pay for women--equal pay for equal work.
Click to expand...

Armchair, I would like to thank you for disagreeing with the pro-logo stuff in a respectful fashion. Thank you!

I think you are incorrect to call this is a movement by conservative, middle-aged Southern ladies. The movement was started by former Lady Vol athletes, mostly still in their 20's, and at least one I know of in her 30's. The bringbacktheladyvols website was started by them, the online petition was set up by them, and the trip to the Legislature in Nashville was their doing (though they brought along some middle-aged, not-at-all-conservative, probably Southern ladies who set up a table in the hallways of the War Memorial Building to get signatures on the petition). I live in Nashville, and while they were here, I put some of them up at my house, so that is how I know about this. I went along with them to the Legislature, wondering what possible good it would do, but they achieved what they wanted to do. I'm not middle-aged, I'm in my 50's. I'm not conservative, but I am Southern. I don't speak for the group or anybody here but me. I would not give this issue much time if it were not for the Lady Vols themselves speaking up. There are current Lady Vols saying they want to keep the logo. Two members of the current golf team have written letters, members of the volleyball team have posted their photo with their LV hand signal, swim team members and tennis players are competing with LV logo stickers on their faces, because it is no longer on their unis, the basketball team for the first time has "LADY VOLS" across the backs of their warm ups where their individual names used to be, the softball team has the largest LV logos on their helments & the coaches' sweatshirts that I have ever seen them use. Nike probably sees that real estate & thinks "there could be a Swoosh there." What I am seeing, and I'm not even in Knoxville, shows me the athletes want to keep the logo, and that's why I'm posting in this thread in support of it, writing letters, signing petitions, sending money, withholding my season ticket, whatever I can do to help them. If they didn't care, I would still care, but I wouldn't bother to say anything. But they DO care and are showing it, so I am, too.

It isn't about the "Lady" part. "Lady Vols" is their name and they want to keep their name. It is a good thing to have a name. Yes, they are Vols and we all embrace being Vols, but no one would ever call them Vols, they'd just be "the women's tennis team", etc., just like the other schools. Our athletes are different and better and they have a name. The women's teams have accomplished a lot under the name "the Lady Vols", and they deserve to keep the recognition. I believe that's what this is all about. If they care enough to speak up about it, I'm right there with them.

"Equal pay" - holy crap, I totally support equal pay for equal work!! What are you thinking? :thud: :)

Again, thanks for a respectful post.
 
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#513
#513
VollyParton said:
Armchair, I would like to thank you for disagreeing with the pro-logo stuff in a respectful fashion. Thank you!

I think you are incorrect to call this is a movement by conservative, middle-aged Southern ladies. The movement was started by former Lady Vol athletes, mostly still in their 20's, and at least one I know of in her 30's. The bringbacktheladyvols website was started by them, the online petition was set up by them, and the trip to the Legislature in Nashville was their doing (though they brought along some middle-aged, not-at-all-conservative, probably Southern ladies who set up a table in the hallways of the War Memorial Building to get signatures on the petition). I live in Nashville, and while they were here, I put some of them up at my house, so that is how I know about this. I went along with them to the Legislature, wondering what possible good it would do, but they achieved what they wanted to do. I'm not middle-aged, I'm in my 50's. I'm not conservative, but I am Southern. I don't speak for the group or anybody here but me. I would not give this issue much time if it were not for the Lady Vols themselves speaking up. There are current Lady Vols saying they want to keep the logo. Two members of the current golf team have written letters, members of the volleyball team have posted their photo with their LV hand signal, swim team members and tennis players are competing with LV logo stickers on their faces, because it is no longer on their unis, the basketball team for the first time has "LADY VOLS" across the backs of their warm ups where their individual names used to be, the softball team has the largest LV logos on their helments & the coaches' sweatshirts that I have ever seen them use. Nike probably sees that real estate & thinks "there could be a Swoosh there." What I am seeing, and I'm not even in Knoxville, shows me the athletes want to keep the logo, and that's why I'm posting in this thread in support of it, writing letters, signing petitions, sending money, withholding my season ticket, whatever I can do to help them. If they didn't care, I would still care, but I wouldn't bother to say anything. But they DO care and are showing it, so I am, too.

It isn't about the "Lady" part. "Lady Vols" is their name and they want to keep their name. It is a good thing to have a name. Yes, they are Vols and we all embrace being Vols, but no one would ever call them Vols, they'd just be "the women's tennis team", etc., just like the other schools. Our athletes are different and better and they have a name. The women's teams have accomplished a lot under the name "the Lady Vols", and they deserve to keep the recognition. I believe that's what this is all about. If they care enough to speak up about it, I'm right there with them.

"Equal pay" - holy crap, I totally support equal pay for equal work!! What are you thinking? :thud: :)

Again, thanks for a respectful post.
Click to expand...

Very well said.
 
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#514
#514
sanddune50,

You have referred to the fact that "mass quantity merchandising carries a fairly heavy cost" during several posts. I would really like you to explain what it is that you think you mean and, in light of the article that I provided in an earlier post (which you have seen fit to ignore), explain how this has any impact on the University and the Athletic Department.

Until you choose to respond to my questions with a reasonable answer that contains specifics and not the generalities that you have provided so far, I'm afraid I will have to agree with an earlier poster that you are here simply to stir up trouble.

And, by the way, I am a 64 y/o male, so, unless my support of the maintenance of the Lady Vols logo for all women's sports makes me a "hen", that particular appellation won't be necessary in a reply.

Jim
 
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#516
#516
VollyParton said:
Armchair, I would like to thank you for disagreeing with the pro-logo stuff in a respectful fashion. Thank you!

I think you are incorrect to call this is a movement by conservative, middle-aged Southern ladies. The movement was started by former Lady Vol athletes, mostly still in their 20's, and at least one I know of in her 30's. The bringbacktheladyvols website was started by them, the online petition was set up by them, and the trip to the Legislature in Nashville was their doing (though they brought along some middle-aged, not-at-all-conservative, probably Southern ladies who set up a table in the hallways of the War Memorial Building to get signatures on the petition). I live in Nashville, and while they were here, I put some of them up at my house, so that is how I know about this. I went along with them to the Legislature, wondering what possible good it would do, but they achieved what they wanted to do. I'm not middle-aged, I'm in my 50's. I'm not conservative, but I am Southern. I don't speak for the group or anybody here but me. I would not give this issue much time if it were not for the Lady Vols themselves speaking up. There are current Lady Vols saying they want to keep the logo. Two members of the current golf team have written letters, members of the volleyball team have posted their photo with their LV hand signal, swim team members and tennis players are competing with LV logo stickers on their faces, because it is no longer on their unis, the basketball team for the first time has "LADY VOLS" across the backs of their warm ups where their individual names used to be, the softball team has the largest LV logos on their helments & the coaches' sweatshirts that I have ever seen them use. Nike probably sees that real estate & thinks "there could be a Swoosh there." What I am seeing, and I'm not even in Knoxville, shows me the athletes want to keep the logo, and that's why I'm posting in this thread in support of it, writing letters, signing petitions, sending money, withholding my season ticket, whatever I can do to help them. If they didn't care, I would still care, but I wouldn't bother to say anything. But they DO care and are showing it, so I am, too.

It isn't about the "Lady" part. "Lady Vols" is their name and they want to keep their name. It is a good thing to have a name. Yes, they are Vols and we all embrace being Vols, but no one would ever call them Vols, they'd just be "the women's tennis team", etc., just like the other schools. Our athletes are different and better and they have a name. The women's teams have accomplished a lot under the name "the Lady Vols", and they deserve to keep the recognition. I believe that's what this is all about. If they care enough to speak up about it, I'm right there with them.

"Equal pay" - holy crap, I totally support equal pay for equal work!! What are you thinking? :thud: :)

Again, thanks for a respectful post.
Click to expand...

Vols, to me, exudes male recognition. When I think of Vols, my thoughts go to the men's football team, basketball team, golf team, track, BB, etc. Lady Vols is an identity that Hart and whoever is robbing every current and former athlete of. With exception to the LV basketball program. And, I see this as temporary if Hart continues as AD. Hart has a history of not doing the right thing regarding females. It started at Florida and he brought it with him to UT. The guy is an asshat from the word go, but you know that.

At your delicate age, you shouldn't be getting upset. You could break a hip or have one of them ambulancesism or something. Enjoy the golden years.:)
 
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#517
#517
Here's an article that some might find interesting.

Decision to roll back 'Lady Vols' name causing division at Tennessee - Women's College Basketball - SI.com

Tennessee decided to roll back the Lady Vols name as part of the school’s campus-wide rebrand, one that included a Nike audit and a university-conducted audit. According to a UT statement, the audits recommended “the consolidation of logos and word marks in order for better branding consistency, with the Power T serving as the primary mark for campus and athletics.

Dave Hart-“I met with all of our coaches individually, and then we all met collectively,” Hart said in the Nov. 12 interview. “Our coaches to the person, all our head coaches, have strongly endorsed and supported this decision. I met with each of our women’s teams, and those meetings were extraordinarily positive.
 
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#518
#518
Slydell said:
Here's an article that some might find interesting.

Decision to roll back 'Lady Vols' name causing division at Tennessee - Women's College Basketball - SI.com

Tennessee decided to roll back the Lady Vols name as part of the school’s campus-wide rebrand, one that included a Nike audit and a university-conducted audit. According to a UT statement, the audits recommended “the consolidation of logos and word marks in order for better branding consistency, with the Power T serving as the primary mark for campus and athletics.

Dave Hart-“I met with all of our coaches individually, and then we all met collectively,” Hart said in the Nov. 12 interview. “Our coaches to the person, all our head coaches, have strongly endorsed and supported this decision. I met with each of our women’s teams, and those meetings were extraordinarily positive.
Click to expand...

Wonder wtf those audits were? When he said "I met with each of our women's teams, and those meetings were extraordinarily positive," meant he met with the coaches, told them they're going to get rid of the Lady Vols brand, and no one said anything. That is how he defines extraordinarily positive. Liar.
 
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#519
#519
Sandvol said:
Wonder wtf those audits were? When he said "I met with each of our women's teams, and those meetings were extraordinarily positive," meant he met with the coaches, told them they're going to get rid of the Lady Vols brand, and no one said anything. That is how he defines extraordinarily positive. Liar.
Click to expand...

:good!:
 
#520
#520
Here is the Brand Audit.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1687171-nike-branding-audit.html

Took me 15 minutes with my friend Google to find numerous errors. Lady Bulldawgs of Georgia, Lady Tigers of LSU, Lady Bulldogs of Miss State are left out.

It's a shoddy bit of work, done by an intern, that a major company like NIKE should be EMBARRASSED to have their name on.

If this is what Dave Hart is hanging his hat on, i recommend he reconsider that perspective. LOUSY WORK. The World Class UT Marketing Department didn't even examine it for errors, but I bet a couple freshmen over there could RIP THIS **** APART.
 
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#521
#521
Brianchevy said:
Here is the Brand Audit.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1687171-nike-branding-audit.html

Took me 15 minutes with my friend Google to find numerous errors. Lady Bulldawgs of Georgia, Lady Tigers of LSU, Lady Bulldogs of Miss State are left out.

It's a shoddy bit of work, done by an intern, that a major company like NIKE should be EMBARRASSED to have their name on.

If this is what Dave Hart is hanging his hat on, i recommend he reconsider that perspective. LOUSY WORK. The World Class UT Marketing Department didn't even examine it for errors, but I bet a couple freshmen over there could RIP THIS **** APART.
Click to expand...

Yes, I can see now why that was so convincing to Dave and Jimmy.
 
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#524
#524
i do believe your right vollyparton

"Nike probably sees that real estate & thinks "there could be a Swoosh there."

this has to make more sense than Hart running roughshod over the Lady Vols logo and program, when they combined the athletic departments,how many programs are run by women now ?

doesn't Hart have a history of this ? either he is not thinking this threw or doesn't care,which at a guess would probably be on the don't care about the Lady Vols history or program

it seems to me that Hart and Cheeks could find something better to do with there time,other than trying to kill a famed and beloved logo for the Lady Vols program,just because the Tee Shirt makers want to change it

the longer that they hold out,the worse it looks for them,there fighting fan sentiment,how the women players feel and from that article,division in the program

grow a pair and just admit that they didn't expect the backlash and keep the Lady Vols logo intact for all Women's Sports,despite what Nike wants
 
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