Darlinstone???

#101
#101
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
He contributed in that Florida game. If not for him we many not get that win. He helped keep Haugh from going off.
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Two games out of how many? And he was fine in the Florida game. Not good. He wasn’t a liability defensively. His shooting was garbage which is what the whole conversation is regarding. Starting and playing 26 minutes led to him going 2-10.
 
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#102
#102
pimo1 said:
shooting is shooting. we have the numbers we have. you don't go from being a good shooter to a bad shooter because you went up a level. you might have issues getting your shot off but shooting is shooting. I used his numbers from Hofstra to point out that he is a volume shooter. I also used his numbers from Iowa State to show what happens when he is forced to play sporadic minutes. Thats 4 years of playing no matter what level it happened at it shows a consistent pattern. When he gets up shots and plays minutes he tends to do well. he is a streaky shooter and scores in bunches this is also something that's held true at UT.

AT UT he has played 10 or more minutes 11 times.. On all but 3 of those occasions he has been productive. In the 11 games he played 10 or more minutes he shot 24-55 43.6% from the field and 10-33 30% from 3. Not great numbers but definitely not bad. In the 10 of those not the Florida game 22-45 48.8% from field and 10-29 34.8% from 3. Now those are impressive numbers yes? Because that's better than any guard on the team from the field and everyone except for Lanier from 3. Also btw his numbers including Florida are better than Gainey. He averaged 5 points 3 boards and totaled 4 turnovers (that's 0.36) in those games. In 14.5 minutes a game. You know who else averages right around 15 minutes a game (but he gets it consistently) and puts up shockingly similar numbers? Cade freaking Philips.

So AT UT.. this year... in game where he has played extended time 10 or more minutes he averages the same as Cade Philips.....outside of the whole 3 pointer thing that is. In his 11 opportunities to play outside of garbage time, he has answered the bell 8. So there ya go UT numbers not Hofstra ones or Iowa State, not even Scottland Prep, Athens Prep or Rocky River High school numbers. This was fun I didn't even know he played for Bobby Maze's AAU team and went to school in Athens. Funny story he only averaged about 12 points a game in HS but was known to have big outbursts like.. ya know a streaky volume shooter.
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Goodness me…”shooting is shooting” is one of the most naive things one could say anout the game. Shooting is shooting in a game of horse. Shooting is not shooting in an actual game when you go from playing against C competition to A competition. The defense is better. You have less space to get a shot off. The game is sped up. More of your shots are a hair off balance because you’re not able to set your feet and square your shoulders perfectly every time. If shooting was shooting regardless of competition level, Chris Lofton and Kevin Punter would have carved out a role in the NBA. Guess what? It’s not.

Good for you I guess if you believe in the guy. You must be watching a different player than most of us.
 
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#103
#103
VolsAgainstTheWorld15 said:
Two games out of how many? And he was fine in the Florida game. His shooting was garbage which is what the whole conversation is regarding. Starting and playing 26 minutes led to him going 2-10.
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He didn't need to score that game anymore than Shack did tonight.
He did his job. He had a nice block, 2-3 nice assists, and 5 boards, too.
His Defense was really good, like I said helped keep Haugh to a crappy night.

You said only one good performance.
I was just correcting you.
This thread hasn't just been about shooting, btw.

The guy has helped us win 2 games in conference this year. It's ok for you ( meaning anyone) to admit that and still make any other points in respect you want to.
 
#109
#109
walkenvol said:
It amazes me how a handful of guys are continuing to tote Dubar’s water this late in the season when the results say something else. Some folks will simply never admit when they’re wrong.
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I don't think that is really it at all. I believe those who say he needs to be getting as many minutes as he possibly can are the ones who truly feel we will most likely need to rely on him (a la Texas/Florida) for something meaningful in at least one NCAAT game if we're going to make a deep run. Maybe more than a game.

I know that's it for me, anyway. I also can't imagine that the others saying something similar are just "Dubar homers." What do they stand to gain from it? I don't think anyone thinks or predicted he is/was going to be the next Dalton Knecht or anything.

Ironically, it could easily be that some of you guys are so invested in saying he is necessarily a "bust"/"waste of a scholarship" that you could be taking offense at anything remotely positive about the guy because it undercuts your argument.
Just sayin'.
 
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#110
#110
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
I don't think that is really it at all. I believe those who say he needs to be getting as many minutes as he possibly can are the ones who truly feel we will most likely need to rely on him (a la Texas/Florida) for something meaningful in at least one NCAAT game if we're going to make a deep run. Maybe more than a game.

I know that's it for me, anyway. I also can't imagine that the others saying something similar are just "Dubar homers." What do they stand to gain from it? I don't think anyone thinks or predicted he is/was going to be the next Dalton Knecht or anything.

Ironically, it could easily be that some of you guys are so invested in saying he is necessarily a "bust"/"waste of a scholarship" that you could be taking offense at anything remotely positive about the guy because it undercuts your argument.
Just sayin'.
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In every thread, you tell us we don’t know anything if we don’t agree with much of what you say. Pot meet kettle.
 
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#111
#111
VolGee4 said:
In every thread, you tell us we don’t know anything if we don’t agree with much of what you say. Pot meet kettle
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Nothing in the the post you made or the reply I just made to you said or suggested " you don't know anything if you don't agree with me".

I don't even know where you would get that from. From your point of view or mine....

I do find it funny that many ( not necessarily you) that are quick to say " not to bash players or coaches " and " let's be positive " when something negative happens to be said , don't have much to say when someone calls a player a "waste of a scholarship " or a "bust".
But that's just an interesting observation I made. Doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.
 
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#112
#112
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
I don't think that is really it at all. I believe those who say he needs to be getting as many minutes as he possibly can are the ones who truly feel we will most likely need to rely on him (a la Texas/Florida) for something meaningful in at least one NCAAT game if we're going to make a deep run. Maybe more than a game.

I know that's it for me, anyway. I also can't imagine that the others saying something similar are just "Dubar homers." What do they stand to gain from it? I don't think anyone thinks or predicted he is/was going to be the next Dalton Knecht or anything.

Ironically, it could easily be that some of you guys are so invested in saying he is necessarily a "bust"/"waste of a scholarship" that you could be taking offense at anything remotely positive about the guy because it undercuts your argument.
Just sayin'.
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Never said that. Just said that he hasn’t earned any more minutes than he’s been getting and that force feeding him minutes probably isn’t worthwhile.

We’re a thin team. Maybe we will need to rely on him in a NCAAT game. Maybe he’ll come through and maybe he won’t. I’m not trying to lose games now on the off chance that giving him a few more minutes would dramatically increase the likelihood that he comes through IF we need him to later. He’s had enough time already this season that a little more is unlikely to make much difference.
 
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#113
#113
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
It's because of that out bounds play, dude.
Sure he was bumped out and it wasn't called, but the guy should have defied physics and stayed in bounds.
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Yeah, obvious foul that created a turnover. You don't take a guy out for that and not put him back in. After watching the film the coaches are going to feel silly for possibly blaming him.

These officials were bad for both sides.
 
#114
#114
BreatheUT said:
Yeah, obvious foul that created a turnover. You don't take a guy out for that and not put him back in. After watching the film the coaches are going to feel silly for possibly blaming him.

These officials were bad for both sides.
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He didn't get yanked for that TO, though, which occurred on our last possession of the 1st half. The guy mostly only plays to spell guys a few minutes in the first half and then rarely sees the floor in the 2nd half. It's a pattern that has persisted for weeks, now. We're at a point in the season where the lineup and rotations are mostly set. The opportunity to earn minutes is gone when you're 28 games into the season.
 
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#115
#115
Col_Cathcart said:
Never said that. Just said that he hasn’t earned any more minutes than he’s been getting and that force feeding him minutes probably isn’t worthwhile.

We’re a thin team. Maybe we will need to rely on him in a NCAAT game. Maybe he’ll come through and maybe he won’t. I’m not trying to lose games now on the off chance that giving him a few more minutes would dramatically increase the likelihood that he comes through IF we need him to later. He’s had enough time already this season that a little more is unlikely to make much difference.
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You don't force feed him minutes necessarily. Just some longer stretches at a time would probably work. Maybe let him play through a bad play against teams like we played tonight and definitely let him play a little more when he hits two on a row. I saw him get taken out right right after making two in a row vs Oklahoma. That's a confidence killer, man. Definitely let him play through in situations like that.

All I liked to see for us to make sure we are maximizing every moment to build his confidence because it isn’t a " maybe will need to rely on him" , it's "we will need to rely on him" come tournament time. History says that anyway.

That's my opinion.
I'm 100% fine with you or anyone else having your opinion on him. Just explaining why some of us have been " toting his water".
I think most everything about him has been said at this point.✌️
 
#116
#116
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
You don't force feed him minutes necessarily. Just some longer stretches at a time would probably work. Maybe let him play through a bad play against teams like we played tonight and definitely let him play a little more when he hits two on a row. I saw him get taken out right right after making two in a row vs Oklahoma. That's a confidence killer, man. Definitely let him play through in situations like that.

All I liked to see for us to make sure we are maximizing every moment to build his confidence because it isn’t a " maybe will need to rely on him" , it's "we will need to rely on him" come tournament time. History says that anyways.

That's my opinion anyways.
I'm 100% fine with you or anyone else having your opinion on him. Just explaining why some of us have been " toting his water".
I think most everything about him has been said at this point.✌️
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This is where we part ways. I don’t think that maximizing his individual confidence is the same as maximizing the team’s chances.

Maybe those minutes are better spent getting Phillips and Okpara time together in a 2 big lineup? Maybe we need some extra minutes of playing small with Mashack at the 4 to build chemistry? Maybe some extra Boswell minutes pay dividends for next season since he’ll be back? Lots of other ways to use those minutes besides developing a senior at the end of your bench.

Nothing I’ve seen in the first 28 games makes me think that Dubar is going to radically improve if given an extra handful of minutes of court time in the last few. I think he is what he is at this point and we just pray that IF we need him in march that he happens to be having a good game. He’s played a ton of basketball in his career. He’s pretty much a finished product at this point imo.
 
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#117
#117
pimo1 said:
Again this is all based on injury lol not him having a light turn on and beating someone out. If any of the first 6 guys go down there is gonna be 25-30 minutes needing someone to play them. The other 5 guys don't have enough leeway to take more than a couple extra. If Phillips goes down that's 15 minutes pretty much going directly to him. If its a guard maybe they play Boswell but he hasn't been able to get on the court as much as Dubar so that's not likely.

There is no rocket science here it's the most lukewarm/easy take there is. Math is undefeated. Even if you play your first 6 30 a game there are still 20 mins left. With the exception of Okpara all the other guys are already pushing 30 mins a game with ZZ at 35
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You keep saying that we’re going to have another injury because “math” says it’s a certainty, as if we haven’t already statistically been a fairly injured team by “math” standards. We lost Estrella to a season-ending injury in November. Cam Carr lost 6 weeks to a hand injury that ended up being a season-ender because he didn’t want to lose an entire year of eligibility due to injury. Cade Phillips has been playing through a shoulder injury for about 2 months.

That’s 3 of 11 players on the roster that opened the season. That’s a lot of injuries. So if you’re entire assessment of the situations is “math says an injury is coming” I would refute that argument.
 
#118
#118
TheMookieMonster said:
You keep saying that we’re going to have another injury because “math” says it’s a certainty, as if we haven’t already statistically been a fairly injured team by “math” standards. We lost Estrella to a season-ending injury in November. Cam Carr lost 6 weeks to a hand injury that ended up being a season-ender because he didn’t want to lose an entire year of eligibility due to injury. Cade Phillips has been playing through a shoulder injury for about 2 months.

That’s 3 of 11 players on the roster that opened the season. That’s a lot of injuries. So if you’re entire assessment of the situations is “math says an injury is coming” I would refute that argument.
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Okpara has been banged up as well and Milicic missed a game with an ankle injury. And that’s not counting the Flu.

That said, prior injuries probably increase rather than decrease the odds of future injuries. It’s not one of those things that just naturally evens out over a season necessarily.
 
#119
#119
Col_Cathcart said:
This is where we part ways. I don’t think that maximizing his individual confidence is the same as maximizing the team’s chances.

Maybe those minutes are better spent getting Phillips and Okpara time together in a 2 big lineup? Maybe we need some extra minutes of playing small with Mashack at the 4 to build chemistry? Maybe some extra Boswell minutes pay dividends for next season since he’ll be back? Lots of other ways to use those minutes besides developing a senior at the end of your bench.

Nothing I’ve seen in the first 28 games makes me think that Dubar is going to radically improve if given an extra handful of minutes of court time in the last few. I think he is what he is at this point and we just pray that IF we need him in march that he happens to be having a good game. He’s played a ton of basketball in his career. He’s pretty much a finished product at this point imo.
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I didn't say to necessarily try to maximize his confidence. I said don't actively be killing it by taking him out immediately after making two shots. Point is if he hits two in a row leave him in at least till he misses one.
I would be saying this if it was the case with Phillips or Boswell.
BTW, you said " this is where we part ways",
where exactly do you agree with me?
 
#120
#120
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
I didn't say to necessarily try to maximize his confidence. I said don't actively be killing it by taking him out immediately after making two shots. Point is if he hits two in a row leave him in at least till he misses one.
I would be saying this if it was the case with Phillips or Boswell.
BTW, you said " this is where we part ways",
where exactly do you agree with me?
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I agree with you that we might need him at some point and that having him more ready/confident is preferable to less. However, I disagree with you on how much game time is worth spending in pursuit of that goal (which I view as much less important than you do).
 
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#121
#121
Col_Cathcart said:
I agree with you that we might need him at some point and that having him more ready/confident is preferable to less. However, I disagree with you on how much game time is worth spending in pursuit of that goal (which I view as much less important than you do).
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Fair enough. We at least agree on that.
I just hate to miss what I feel like are good moments/opportunities to get him a little time like Oklahoma game and last night. It'd be great if don't even have to rely on him anymore than we have had to.

I really like our line-up as far as the way they have been trending. I just got a real strong feeling we get hit with foul trouble come March when the officials always seem to tighten up their calls.
 
#122
#122
bleedingTNorange said:
Gainey was sick and limited and Dubar still only saw 5 minutes, opted to give Zeigler/Lanier/Mashack 36+ minutes each rather than play Dubar more
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Thats a misrepresentation of facts. Gainey played 17 minutes which is 10 under his norm. ZZ (normally plays 34.4) and Lanier (31) played a tad over their norm and most of the minutes went to Mashack (28) .. but way more than Gaineys minutes got absorbed there it was because it was a close game. Phillips (15) played less minutes than usual also... Dubar going from 5 to 10 was less of a story than anything.

I never said they would play him because he earned it. I said he will have to play because they have no choice. I never said he was a great player I said people are way overflowing him being bad. The dude has done fine when given minutes more times than not. Had gainey Been a full no-go before the game the substitutions would have been different and you know it. The most interesting line item is that Boswell still got his token 4.
 
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#123
#123
pimo1 said:
Thats a misrepresentation of facts. Gainey played 17 minutes which is 10 under his norm. ZZ (normally plays 34.4) and Lanier (31) played a tad over their norm and most of the minutes went to Mashack (28) .. but way more than Gaineys minutes got absorbed there it was because it was a close game. Phillips (15) played less minutes than usual also... Dubar going from 5 to 10 was less of a story than anything.

I never said they would play him because he earned it. I said he will have to play because they have no choice. I never said he was a great player I said people are way overflowing him being bad. The dude has done fine when given minutes more times than not. Had gainey Been a full no-go before the game the substitutions would have been different and you know it. The most interesting line item is that Boswell still got his token 4.
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Gainey playing 12 minutes less than he was averaging in conference play due to illness is effectively the same thing as being limited due to an injury. And yet Dubar did not see any sort of increase in minutes, those extra minutes were distributed to other players to play more than normal. So in the event of an injury why would it be any different than that, they showed yesterday they seemingly would rather increase and distribute minutes to others rather than give Dubar extra minutes.
 
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#124
#124
Col_Cathcart said:
He was 100% fouled on that play, but I don’t think that TO was the reason he didn’t play more.
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Yeah, Barnes has been following the same pattern most of the time. A little time in the first half but foul trouble, injury, or a decent lead are the only way he gets any minutes in the second lately. He's just too big a liability on the court right now.
 
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