Daniel Helm and Recruiting

[Biopsyman]

If anyone remembers, Daniel Helm was a 4 Star TE and top 5 position group in his class. Shortly after arriving on campus, he transferred out of nowhere claiming CBJ was too aggressive and cursed too much in practice.

I know, I know it’s football. This isn’t the drama club and expectations are always high at rocky top. I called him “soft” at the time but even that is becoming questionable now.

Following up on that, I did some looking back on our ‘14 and ‘15 recruiting classes and they look damn good on paper. Derrell Scott, Dwayne Hendrix, etc

How can Saban recruit better and still have 4 and 5 stars waiting their turn but butch can’t? You can say, NC’s, exposure, whatever. Most kids that young want to play on the field above all.

Ask Blake Barnett, Alvin Kamara, and many other 4/5 stars from Bama. This thread isn’t meant to talk about Saban so much, more as again, what is going on in practices? What is butch saying to these kids before they are on campus versus after?

This attrition is unheard of and I’m surprised former recruits have spoken out more on their brief time here.

Daniel Helm did not like the F Bomb

 

[Smokey X]

Have you ever worked for someone who is under qualified for the position and you and everyone around you know it?

This is Butch

yeah it makes it hard to take them seriously...especially when you know the $$ involved...

 

[butchna]

I’d rather him be inorange and white. Better than what we are doing currently.

How can you tell? Imagine Wolf in Cut’s offense. Either Wolf! Both outperform Helms imo. And before we get too far into a back and forth on the main issue, I’ve passed the point of conceding the disaster which is Butch’s overall roster management...and that includes teaching fundamentals, instilling mental toughness and integrating individual skills into an adjustable scheme. Butch had/has his guys and loses others...no doubt. We just don’t need to reach and try to espouse that any transfer would have changed that reality. With the exception of Wharton, no transfer we “lost” was going to contribute (this precludes Boulware...he’s a final nail in the coffin and not part of past arguments). :hi:

 

[Volunteer_Kirby]

I think the most telling transfer was Vic Wharton. Kid obviously loved Tennessee, was very vocal about recruiting guys in the '14 class and he just... transfers after his 1st year.

That should've raised some red flags, but it didnt - recruiting was going well so no one seemed to notice. Then you look at how Butch passed on talented guys who really wanted to be here like Jalen McClesky & T.J. Rahming over projects like Kyle Oliver, Vincent Perry, Jozquez Bruce... that should've been another clue that the man was in waaaay over his head.

BTW all 3 of those WRs are having big years...Wharton 600+, Rahming, 500+, McClesky 400+.

Lets not even get started on his ABYSMAL linebacker and OL recruiting over the years...mah god...

 

[Forty]

Jason Carr said the same thing about Butch.

 

[BlountvegasVol28]

Makes u wonder if he actually hit that player

That’s the one and only time I would say we will let that slide just because of who it was he hit... even though the reason he deserved to be hit didn’t happen till much later

 

[TheEndlessEnigma]

If Butch really did that, then he needs to be smacked in the mouth. If someone ever did that to my kid, we would be trading blows.

We wouldnt be trading blows. I would pound his head thru the freaking floor.

 

[UCVOL]

I think Butch is too soft if anything.

 

[AllVawlNathan]

Have you ever worked for someone who is under qualified for the position and you and everyone around you know it?

This is Butch

I am living this nightmare right now.

 

[dcvol1]

We can remember Vic Wharton who has done very well at Cal this season. Or the 5 star Preston Williams whose last catch for UT Was a slant over the middle about 7 yards where he went up and came down in the middle of the field before getting hit by three Georgia Bulldogs. Tough catch which earned him no more playing time against Ga. Or Texas AM. He asked Jones for more playing time and got none. So he transferred to Colorado Stste. He was tougher and more talented than the bunch we have now who are afraid of their own shadows. Or Niko Creamer who had a big day against UK for eastern KY. Think Jalen had it right. Jones may be able to recruit but he can not develop players. Or else brick by bs brick we would not be suckin wind. Do you really think all of those transfers were wrong. Currie moves and replaces Jones or I am taking a knee the entire 2018 season. We are in suck city!

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

Most transferred because they weren't good enough...like Riley Ferguson!

 

[butchna]

Most transferred because they weren't good enough...like Riley Ferguson!

You pick him over Dobbs? Can’t have both. And this version of Riley wasn’t on the table. He needed a come to Jesus year of hard work.

 

[LocoVol]

How long have you been around here?

There's a weird phenomenon around football programs and especially this fan base. Fans don't want to hear bad things about "their coach" as long as he's winning or there's hope that he will. Some of the most vicious people here toward Jones were once about as bad toward those of us who dared criticize or question him.

IMO, Jalen Hurd likely had legitimate beefs with Jones. I think he was misled and would not be at all surprised if Jones didn't pressure him like he did Davis. You have other guys who have left at various points. But when they left, anyone who blamed anyone but them got hammered, called a liar, called an enemy of the program, etc.

Hurumph! :rock::hi:

 

[Rudy123]

I remember someone calling Helm soft, but disagreed because he was one of the players from that class I felt was most promising. He didn't play soft, and he saw plenty of the field along with Wolf. I felt those two would be four year bookends, and defenses being forced to cover both would open up the field for the wideouts.

But every TE brought in since has been a shadow of what Helm's potential was. And I was really impressed with him the one time I met him at the O&W game. Maybe others didn't see losing him as such a big deal, but I missed him every time our receivers couldn't get open.

You are dreaming because bUTch would have never been smart enough to play two T.E. at one time......

 

[alaVOL]

My high school coach lit me up like no one had ever cared to, and because of that I credit him with having the most profound positive impact in my life to date. Kids these days are soft, there’s no other way to put it.

It can be a positive, but coaches can go to far as well, like a Bob Knight type.

 

[They]

D. Helm has like 300 career receiving yards..... sooo maybe it worked out?

 

[TNnative]

You are dreaming because bUTch would have never been smart enough to play two T.E. at one time......

It was, at that time, something one of the better and more successful NFL teams was doing at the time. I wasn't the only one who could see the potential. In fact, I think Bajakian did have both in at the same time once or twice. But it was just to run block.

 

[DisgruntledVol]

What other top notch players? Where have they gone? Ferguson is doing well at Memphis. Peteman did decent at Pitt. Helm has done nothing at Duke, ditto for Scott at ECU. I am not taking up for Butch here but am curious.

D'Andre Payne is having a heck of a game against WVU. Shutting down Sills & just picked off Grier.

 

[87&91ALUM]

It would seem that consistent top ten teams representing recruiting areas across the country scoop up the cream of the crop. There are hundreds of reasons a student athlete doesn't graduate where he got his first scholarship. Butch has taken chances on high school seniors that had a lot of stars but, injuries. True of the big OLinenan from Warren Co this year. Looking at the NCAA injury list, there are top twenty teams with more injuries than us. Maybe different positions. Butch was making progress on building a two and three deep team until tough injuries in key positions with experience wore us out last year.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

D'Andre Payne is having a heck of a game against WVU. Shutting down Sills & just picked off Grier.

He wasnt a top notch recruit. People that say we have had a ton of top notch guys transfer and then play great are just lying. While some have, more have not.

 

[LionPride]

I saw Helm's name on the watch list for the John Mackey Award.

And Wharton made the Biletnikoff watch list.

 

[Volfan2012]

The thing I noticed is that players that left here always got better.

 

[DisgruntledVol]

The thing I noticed is that players that left here always got better.

Look at Kamara. Albeit he’s in the NFL, but still.

 

[wtorange]

"Mean" isn't the right word. You can "lay into players" yet not demean them or make them feel "bullied".

I think it would take more than we know but there is a lot of smoke suggesting Jones has player relations and management issues.

Demeaning players is a way too mild term for what Saban and Smart do. I have had HS coaches go to Alabama clinics and say they have never heard players talked to the way that those two do. I had one guy say Saban made Paris Island look soft.

 

[volfanatic24]

A couple of years ago I went to PCB for vacation. I always pick a night out of the week to go to the bar Tootsies. I was decked out in my orange of course, and a guy maybe around my age which was 21 at the time looked and me and said how do feel about CBJ? I said I like him so far. Mind yall this was in like year three, but I said I like they way he has the program going. He looked at me and said "I played for him at Cincy, and I did not like him at all. He caters to the athletes he thinks will make him look like a good coach." I kind of brushed it off, because at the time he did have us in the right direction, but now the proof is in the pudding.