D'Andre Payne

#252
#252
sanddune50 said:
If that's what you got out of the flow of the exchange last night, grab a seat with the rest of the Eeyore like fans in this thread. And what has any of the above guys done to suggest they are talented? Does nonathletic guys rating guys doing drills in shorts mean they are really good football players? If a person is a quitter, can't take being yelled at by coaches, etc. they will never be that good.
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And how do you know the incoming guys won't be quitters after they get here? You're the one who asserted that "marginal players" are being repaced by better players.
 
#254
#254
If the entire class were to stay... there would be a mass exodus in 4-5 years. I'd rather get the classes somewhat even off jump street. If you count a five year cycle to recruiting you have to lose roughly 10 kids per year for the "numbers to work out"
 
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#255
#255
smokey0625 said:
You still build depth the same way. You can't build depth over night. It takes four years. You and I want the same thing, but we disagree that on the timeline. You can't ask butch to keep all players because you're asking him to do the impossible. Technically, he only lost five to transfer because two were out of his hands. One for academic fraud and the other to hitting his girlfriend a lot. So he only lost five, while GA lost 10 last year. I realize it will take four years I just wished people like you would understand you can't ask Jones to do something that the leagues best coach can't do and that's keep everybody happy.
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Blasphemy! Off with your head! :)
 
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#256
#256
smokey0625 said:
You still build depth the same way. You can't build depth over night. It takes four years. You and I want the same thing, but we disagree that on the timeline. You can't ask butch to keep all players because you're asking him to do the impossible. Technically, he only lost five to transfer because two were out of his hands. One for academic fraud and the other to hitting his girlfriend a lot. So he only lost five, while GA lost 10 last year. I realize it will take four years I just wished people like you would understand you can't ask Jones to do something that the leagues best coach can't do and that's keep everybody happy.
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If you and your cronies inferred less and instead read the black and white in front of you, y'all wouldn't be having a "roid" rage on everyone. I've not once blamed this on Butch or expected him to prevent it. If you can find a post where I said this is a black-eye on him and the staff then I'd love to see it.

I've not expected depth to magically appear either. If you can find a post where I say otherwise, then once again I'd love to see it. But depth is more than simply numbers; it's experience and quality. It's being able to replace a starter and not lose production. That rarely comes from FR. You would prefer to have someone who's been in the scheme and the S&C program. We have lost 4 DL in the last year who would be in their 2nd or 3rd year in 2015. That's more ideal than having 4 FR DL potentially filling those spots.

It's a pretty simple stance I've had all along, but it has gotten twisted into me blaming Butch and my wanting him to fail. All because I don't believe attrition so early in the rebuild mode is an ideal sequence of events (disclaimer: Butch can't help it).
 
#257
#257
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
And how do you know the incoming guys won't be quitters after they get here? You're the one who asserted that "marginal players" are being repaced by better players.
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So you read his post and reached the same conclusions as me?

Prepare to "realize" you're just creating arguments in your own head, he never said any of that. The resident dementia one will try to convince you you're the one losing your mind.
 
#258
#258
bowlinggreenvol said:
I don't know if either were worth a damn, they weren't around long enough to prove themselves either way. They hurt depth regardless. But that's the difference in you and me. Because they didn't contribute significantly as a FR you say they're not a loss and we're replacing them with better players. Whereas I'm willing to give them more than 1 season.

FTR, we have no slots to backcount so the most Butch can sign is 28, and only 25 can enroll. So we're either having walk-ons or kids will get cut loose. Moral of the story; if we have 85 and lose 30 to graduation and attrition we can't replace them with 30 this year. So the end result is we're shorthanded from a total roster standpoint.
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Your willing to give guys that don't want to be here because they didn't like being yelled at or wanted a position handed to them one more season? I think the problem I see is that you think stars automatically mean someone is talented. And that there is no way that the guys that are doing these ranking could be off with their assessment. I can tell you from firsthand experience. If a guy is that mentally weak, they are useless and won't succeed anywhere they go.

And everyone suggested we couldn't sign 31 in last year's class. This year's class the number started at 17-18 while the latest number from Hubbs, P Fort, etc. is 28. We would still need 3 more spots available to pull that off. So I'm not sure where worrying about the numbers is coming into play. I'm sure the coaches are aware as to how to maintain 85 scholarships. We don't have a huge senior class this upcoming year either, so I'm not sure we would even have 25 open spots for 2016 anyways .
 
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#259
#259
bowlinggreenvol said:
So you read his post and reached the same conclusions as me?

Prepare to "realize" you're just creating arguments in your own head, he never said any of that. The resident dementia one will try to convince you you're the one losing your mind.
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Well, good for you. You can use the buddy system and feel more justified in your take. See, I don't need someone to justify my opinion that both of you pick and choose what you want to argue as opposed to picking and choosing segments of comments to argue about, divert away from topics that make you appear foolish,etc. You don't want honest dialogue. You get on here to argue and feed your own insecurities. That's what a kid does.
 
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#260
#260
ClearwaterVol said:
If the entire class were to stay... there would be a mass exodus in 4-5 years. I'd rather get the classes somewhat even off jump street. If you count a five year cycle to recruiting you have to lose roughly 10 kids per year for the "numbers to work out"
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That's only if you "oversign" every year. Plenty of schools only bring in what they can hold at that time, in terms of their 85 limit. For example, Carolina had a class of only 15-16 a year or two ago.

Im not advocating for either way. Just pointing out that it's possible to not have to have mass exodus to sign the next class.
 
#262
#262
bowlinggreenvol said:
That's only if you "oversign" every year. Plenty of schools only bring in what they can hold at that time, in terms of their 85 limit. For example, Carolina had a class of only 15-16 a year or two ago.

Im not advocating for either way. Just pointing out that it's possible to not have to have mass exodus to sign the next class.
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Sure it is, but I would rather get a look at 25-30 every year and determine how they fit in on my field. Ones that don't work out can be processed.

By year 5 we will see the 5th year seniors who are career backups getting processed and the attrition for each class will be spread more evenly where you lose a few guys each year of a class.
 
#263
#263
sanddune50 said:
Your willing to give guys that don't want to be here because they didn't like being yelled at or wanted a position handed to them one more season? I think the problem I see is that you think stars automatically mean someone is talented. And that there is no way that the guys that are doing these ranking could be off with their assessment. I can tell you from firsthand experience. If a guy is that mentally weak, they are useless and won't succeed anywhere they go.

And everyone suggested we couldn't sign 31 in last year's class. This year's class the number started at 17-18 while the latest number from Hubbs, P Fort, etc. is 28. We would still need 3 more spots available to pull that off. So I'm not sure where worrying about the numbers is coming into play. I'm sure the coaches are aware as to how to maintain 85 scholarships. We don't have a huge senior class this upcoming year either, so I'm not sure we would even have 25 open spots for 2016 anyways .
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The epitome of irony may be, my being accused of looking at star ratings by the guy who says incoming FR or JUCO's are better than guys who have actually competed against elite D-1 talent.

But hey, I'm just an unathletic, insecure "kid". And you pegged all that by looking at my avi. You've got an impressive gift; pegging posters and future NCAA AA's.
 
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#264
#264
bowlinggreenvol said:
The epitome of irony may be, my being accused of looking at star ratings by the guy who says incoming FR or JUCO's are better than guys who have actually competed against elite D-1 talent.

But hey, I'm just an unathletic, insecure "kid". And you pegged all that by looking at my avi. You've got an impressive gift; pegging posters and future NCAA AA's.
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Payne was a bust....period.
 
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#267
#267
bowlinggreenvol said:
If you and your cronies inferred less and instead read the black and white in front of you, y'all wouldn't be having a "roid" rage on everyone. I've not once blamed this on Butch or expected him to prevent it. If you can find a post where I said this is a black-eye on him and the staff then I'd love to see it.

I've not expected depth to magically appear either. If you can find a post where I say otherwise, then once again I'd love to see it. But depth is more than simply numbers; it's experience and quality. It's being able to replace a starter and not lose production. That rarely comes from FR. You would prefer to have someone who's been in the scheme and the S&C program. We have lost 4 DL in the last year who would be in their 2nd or 3rd year in 2015. That's more ideal than having 4 FR DL potentially filling those spots.

It's a pretty simple stance I've had all along, but it has gotten twisted into me blaming Butch and my wanting him to fail. All because I don't believe attrition so early in the rebuild mode is an ideal sequence of events (disclaimer: Butch can't help it).
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You gain depth with years not overnight. We were hit hard wit kiffin class having a mass exodus and dookey recruiting big 10 talent. It's ok that we lose transfers because it's going to happen regardless. It doesn't matter how bad you dislike it, it will happen. It will take four years to build depth. Look at ole miss, similar to us. What hurt them this year? Poor depth and they are a year ahead of us. They have done a great job bringing in talent but they have not had long enough to build depth. You saw that this year when they lost players on defense and their star WR. If it happens to them, we are no exception and it will prolly happen here. We have two more years before we are at the top programs level, but the good thing is we are on our way. Enjoy it man, we are finally moving upward instead of Dooleyward.
Also, if you criticize the loss of players, I feel it is a criticism of the coach. You may not have blamed him, but ultimately he is responsible for the program. I just don't think it is a fair criticism because it happens everywhere.
 
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#268
#268
smokey0625 said:
You gain depth with years not overnight. We were hit hard wit kiffin class having a mass exodus and dookey recruiting big 10 talent. It's ok that we lose transfers because it's going to happen regardless. It doesn't matter how bad you dislike it, it will happen. It will take four years to build depth. Look at ole miss, similar to us. What hurt them this year? Poor depth and they are a year ahead of us. They have done a great job bringing in talent but they have not had long enough to build depth. You saw that this year when they lost players on defense and their star WR. If it happens to them, we are no exception and it will prolly happen here. We have two more years before we are at the top programs level, but the good thing is we are on our way. Enjoy it man, we are finally moving upward instead of Dooleyward.
Also, if you criticize the loss of players, I feel it is a criticism of the coach. You may not have blamed him, but ultimately he is responsible for the program. I just don't think it is a fair criticism because it happens everywhere.
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Once again, infer less. I don't have a vendetta against Butch and your services in the Butch Bodyguard Services is not necessary. There's already enough depth.
 
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#269
#269
bowlinggreenvol said:
The point is simply attrition. I don't think Butch pushed them at all, there's no need to at this point. The only comparison I'm making to Bama is they both have attrition. Their's happens for different reasons and a different time in an athletes tenure. You'll see a hundred posts in the myriad attrition threads pointing to it happening at Bama, and how it hasn't hurt them. So I went with other's examples to show the difference in the attritions.

You've helped prove my point more so, these kids weren't pushed as Saban's are. That makes it more concerning from an on the field standpoint moving forward. My stance has nothing to do with blaming the coaches for what happened. My stance is little more than this isn't good for the program long-term as we try to rebuild. I don't care if the kid was kicked off, left cause he's homesick, left cause he didn't play enough etc etc. Yes coaches can't do anything about most of those scenarios and therefore I blame them last. That doesn't make what's happening to the roster ok just because coaches can't control it.

If anyone thinks it's easier to rebuild by replacing 5-7 FR every year with 5-7 more FR and that being a cycle, rather than having 5-7 more SO's then they might need to be tested for special ed.
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I think we're pretty much in agreement, except for the fact that I don't see much use in wringing my hands over it. It happened. It's not good. But there's really nothing anyone can do about it, and it won't end the program.

And UT will still be better next year than they were this year. In a massive rebuild, what more can one expect?

bowlinggreenvol said:
UGA, Bama, LSU AU any other major program you want to use as examples, aren't in the same boat as us. They're not trying to rebuild. Yall are the same tribe that bemoan others during the season to give Butch time, we're rebuilding. Then discount the effect losing players can have on that rebuilding effort and use UGA as proof it's ok.

Don't ***** at others next year, if we have 7 FR seeing significant minutes.
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OK. We wont. Deal?
 
#270
#270
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Based on what.
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It appears Mosley and Williams had the leg up. More young talent ahead of Payne. Seeing guys like Gaulden and Berry making special teams plays also show they are closer to significant playing time. Payne may never see the field as a starter. When Williams got pulled this year Mosley played in his place. Maybe not a bust but not as talented as others.
 
#271
#271
vol-un-tear said:
It appears Mosley and Williams had the leg up. More young talent ahead of Payne. Seeing guys like Gaulden and Berry making special teams plays also show they are closer to significant playing time. Payne may never see the field as a starter. When Williams got pulled this year Mosley played in his place. Maybe not a bust but not as talented as others.
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Last sentence is accurate. He may not be as talented or he may not have picked up the playbook as well. Either way he was beaten out. Still a long way from a bust as a true freshman.
 
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#275
#275
bowlinggreenvol said:
Once again, infer less. I don't have a vendetta against Butch and your services in the Butch Bodyguard Services is not necessary. There's already enough depth.
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You addressed nothing in my post. Good response to building depth in the sec. I am done with you. Enjoy prom here in a few months.
 
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