D'Andre Payne

[Orange_Crush]

.

See, I was thinking this, but I like yours better... lol

 

[PA Vol]

I don't see how anyone here can argue that the guys coming in are for sure more talented than what has left when none but Kamara has so much as practiced in a college program.

Just going off of stars (which is a never ending argument here), Oliver is not better than Helm and Abernathy/Miller are not better than Payne. Right now it doesn't look like we will sign Phillips, Amadi, or Martin, so there is no replacement for Hendrix or Payne.

Henderson, Paulk, and Scott can/have all been replaced. Kamara is clearly better than Scott or Paulk but that in no way makes losing two of three running backs in that class any better. Henderson still needed to grow into his body more before he would have made an impact anyway and we have Taylor, Ford, and Butcher all coming in at WDE. But expecting any of those three guys to have the impact that Barnett had is wishful thinking.

Now I don't believe stars are always an accurate way to judge a prospect but it seems to me that many on here are convinced that these kids leaving (highly rated themselves) couldn't hold the jock straps of the kids that haven't even graduated high school yet. Seems like a butt hurt opinion to me.

 

[vol-un-tear]

UT has no 5-star DEs committed. In fact the closest candidate UT has to Hendrix is Phillips and he is not committed and rated lower than Hendriz was. Also, you are off for thinking it's a Barnett "or" Hendrix argument. Hendrix was 2nd team as a true freshman. Teams with lots of talent rotate. It keeps starters fresh. I have no idea what the snap counts were and I doubt you do either.

Take a look at Calipari and see how he manages talent and egos.

What I know is Barnett played a lot and Hendrix played little (not off on that at all) I don't need to know snap counts to figure he beat out Hendrix. And Weatherd and latroy Lewis played as back-ups (mostly). Coach Cal wins games, is a great recruiter, has 1 and done talent and loses in the finals.

We want the same thing but it is what it is. We will be fine. Our Defense will be feared without Hendrix and Payne. I will support the Vols no matter who leaves.

FYI Barnett:
2014 ESPN's True Freshman All-American Team
2014 All-SEC Associated Press Second Team
2014 All-SEC Coaches Second Team
2014 Freshman All-SEC Team
2014 247Sports Freshman All-American
2014 Scout Freshman All-American
2014 Grantland National Rookie Of Year
2014 - FRESHMAN
Photo Gallery
2014 GAME-BY-GAME STATISTICS
Games/Starts: 12/9
Has set Tennessee record for most TFLs (20.5) and most sacks (10.0) by a true freshman in history
Twice has posted Tennessee record for sacks in a game by a true freshman with three: with at # 3 Ole Miss (10/18) and at South Carolina (11/1)
With 20.5 TFLs, ranks fifth on all-time single season list in UT history, most since John Henderson had 21 in 2000
Leads the SEC with 18 TFLs in conference games, the next closest is teammate Curt Maggitt (12)
Ranks first in the SEC and third in NCAA in TFLs per game (1.7) and second in the SEC in TFLs (20.5)
Tied for 16th in the NCAA and fourth in SEC in sacks (10.0)
Became first true freshman to start season opener on defensive line in Tennessee history vs. Utah State
Played all 12 games, starting nine, making 69 tackles, fourth on team in tackles
Leads all true freshman in the SEC in tackles with 69
69 tackles ranks as third highest total tackles by a true freshman in Tennessee history (No. 1 Eric Berry with 86 in 2007; No. 2 A.J. Johnson with 80 in 2011)
Second on UT with 10.0 sacks and with seven quarterback hurries along with a fumble recovery
Five tackles, 2.0 TFLs and a sack at Vanderbilt (11/29)
Eight tackles, 0.5 TFL and two quarterback hurries vs. #19 Missouri (11/23)
Notched career best tying 4.0 TFLs including 2.0 sacks as part of seven tackles vs. Kentucky (11/15)

Go Vols!!

 

[butchna]

Get out of here with your facts and numbers!
Your loyalties will be questioned.

Leave him alone! He's a UT student...who apparently never leaves his room. :unsure:

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

And I don't think CBJ cut any of these guys loose. So you're point is getting lost somewhere.

The point is simply attrition. I don't think Butch pushed them at all, there's no need to at this point. The only comparison I'm making to Bama is they both have attrition. Their's happens for different reasons and a different time in an athletes tenure. You'll see a hundred posts in the myriad attrition threads pointing to it happening at Bama, and how it hasn't hurt them. So I went with other's examples to show the difference in the attritions.

You've helped prove my point more so, these kids weren't pushed as Saban's are. That makes it more concerning from an on the field standpoint moving forward. My stance has nothing to do with blaming the coaches for what happened. My stance is little more than this isn't good for the program long-term as we try to rebuild. I don't care if the kid was kicked off, left cause he's homesick, left cause he didn't play enough etc etc. Yes coaches can't do anything about most of those scenarios and therefore I blame them last. That doesn't make what's happening to the roster ok just because coaches can't control it.

If anyone thinks it's easier to rebuild by replacing 5-7 FR every year with 5-7 more FR and that being a cycle, rather than having 5-7 more SO's then they might need to be tested for special ed.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Oh?...you're one of those that rates classes three or four years after they happen. What's Kiffin's lone class down to? How about Saban's last two? They lost highly rated running backs out of those classes....did they keep their #1 rankings? Haven't kept track of their news conferences. When do they release the class rerankings each year? Do Scout,Rivals and ESPN do it on the same day?

Rivals actually does "re-rank" classes. Maybe next time when you're trying to be a smartass you won't look so foolish. Kiffin's class has been ranked as the biggest bust in Rivals history due to the attrition, lack of qualifying and underperformance.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Why do you pay so much money for something that causes you so much anguish? :blink:

Maybe because I enjoy my alma mater and hope I'll experience success. Why do you focus so much of your efforts on a coach that may not be here in 2 years while the program still is? If Butch succeeds, then great it means we're winning and I'll be happy. If Butch fails then fine, it means we'll be looking for a new coach and I'll hope he can win. Just liked I hoped Dooley would, Butch would and any future coaches will. I don't root for coaches, just win.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

So let me get this straight, losing marginal guys that didn't play last year and replacing them with more talented guys equates to another 6-6 record? Makes sense.:unsure:

Ford is more talented than Hendrix? Bussey is more talented than Scott? Was it the former names performance's vs Bama and UGA that lead you to this conclusion? I mean surely they've faced SEC competiton before you made your conclusions right?

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

What I really need is when I hire a mechanic, and he's fixing things, is for know-it-alls to come in off the street and start grabbing and twisting. Next thing I know, my engine block's on the interstate...I don't need YouTube experts...I got a guy!

Just noticed you joined less than 2 years ago and have 13k posts already; your life must be miserably pathetic to spend that much time on VN. And yet, you post nothing of substance, it's strings of incoherent drivel.

 

[sanddune50]

He provided facts in his initial post.
You asked him to provide examples to compare to other teams.
He gives you what you asked for.
You say it's not good enough.

Now, who really looks silly?

Still you, since you apparently don't have a grasp on what the term 'facts' mean. Last I checked a 'fact' is not saying that a previous years class is a certain ranking and then admitting to not accounting for attrition in other programs. 'Facts' aren't using one team to make broad statements that other teams doesn't have the same attrition. So no his 'facts' weren't sufficient and neither was your response.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Cool. You picked one team to support your flimsy argument. Do you know how Rivals arrives at their rankings? Hint: they only factor in the top 20 highest rated players.

That's irrelevant to how many players a team lost. He was asked how many did the other top 25 ranked classes lose, so he researched and said we lost the most and AU was 2nd. ...

 

[sanddune50]

Ford is more talented than Hendrix? Bussey is more talented than Scott? Was it the former names performance's vs Bama and UGA that lead you to this conclusion? I mean surely they've faced SEC competiton before you made your conclusions right?

Were those the names I used? I mean surely you realize that I may have been inferring Kamara and Andrew Butcher. Not saying I was, but since you like to jump to conclusions let's exhaust all possibilities before you make your conclusions. Carry on with the hand wringing thinking the sky is falling, the rest of us will sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[Falcons02]

Can't really say 2014 was a great recruiting class. We have lost too many off that class that were 4 star players. So, either Butch missed on talent evaluation or too many kids don't like what Butch is cooking. Either way, the defections are making Jones look bad and will set the program back for another year. Face it folks, Jones is spinning his wheels.

Lol

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Ga lost ten from the 2013 to 2014 football seasons. Calm down, it happens. Btw, we signed 32 so we can afford to lose quite a few. If we replace with better guys then it's ok. You don't build depth in 2 years. It's a four year process and right now we are in year 2. Because of Kiffin and Dooley we have to judge Jones on when he got here because he was left nothing as a coach. You guys want Jones to do what no other coach has ever done and that's keep all his recruits. Not even Saban can do that. If we lost the guys who played this year, then I'd be worried (I mean actual contributors and not Hendrix's two tackles). These kids were brought in on the platform of pt, some of them didn't realize the fact that not everyone can play based on depth and ability. It happens guys, depth should start to not be an issue by year 4 of Jones time here. I realized that and I am enjoying the ride. Calm down and let's beat iowa.

UGA, Bama, LSU AU any other major program you want to use as examples, aren't in the same boat as us. They're not trying to rebuild. Yall are the same tribe that bemoan others during the season to give Butch time, we're rebuilding. Then discount the effect losing players can have on that rebuilding effort and use UGA as proof it's ok.

Don't ***** at others next year, if we have 7 FR seeing significant minutes.

 

[butchna]

Just noticed you joined less than 2 years ago and have 13k posts already; your life must be miserably pathetic to spend that much time on VN. And yet, you post nothing of substance, it's strings of incoherent drivel.

Your opinion...which counts less and less each time you make an attempt...you might want to try my method...it works! :thumbsup:

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Were those the names I used? I mean surely you realize that I may have been inferring Kamara and Andrew Butcher. Not saying I was, but since you like to jump to conclusions let's exhaust all possibilities before you make your conclusions. Carry on with the hand wringing thinking the sky is falling, the rest of us will sit back and enjoy the ride.

Ok so Butcher is better than Hendrix? Was it Butcher's performance vs UF that led you that conclusion? I'll plug in whatever name you want me to, I just grabbed the first two I thought of. But since you like to make dumbass statements that you have no way of backing up I'd like for you to at least try. What makes Butcher better, how did you conclude this?

 

[butchna]

UGA, Bama, LSU AU any other major program you want to use as examples, aren't in the same boat as us. They're not trying to rebuild. Yall are the same tribe that bemoan others during the season to give Butch time, we're rebuilding. Then discount the effect losing players can have on that rebuilding effort and use UGA as proof it's ok.

Don't ***** at others next year, if we have 7 FR seeing significant minutes.

We'll leave the b******* to you...let you have a false sense of usefulness.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

We'll leave the b******* to you...let you have a false sense of usefulness.

I'm not *****ing dude, you're just too infantile to recognize that. The loss of young players is a concern; from a depth standpoint. Not because its an indictment on the god-head of UT football.

 

[butchna]

I'm not *****ing dude, you're just too infantile to recognize that. The loss of young players is a concern; from a depth standpoint. Not because its an indictment on the god-head of UT football.

Doesn't sound like your original point or when you defended the other one's that Butch was in trouble "spinning his wheels" because of these players transfers. I let concerns about transfers pretty much go ...they're not exactly unique...but when doomsday starts getting forecast and disagreement means someone is "up Butch's ass", then I am drawn back into this. "Sad Volnation World" where you're not exactly a stranger.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

You gotta fixation on Butch's ass there Bowl...one reference is weird...two is a cry for intervention. :scare:

What happens if Butch fails? You're hellbent he's going to be wildly successful here yet he's never rebuilt a program so there's no track record to support it. He's twice followed a national championship level coach, who was wildly successful. If anything, Cincy took a step back under his watch, despite outrecruiting Kelly.

 

[butchna]

What happens if Butch fails? You're hellbent he's going to be wildly successful here yet he's never rebuilt a program so there's no track record to support it. He's twice followed a national championship level coach, who was wildly successful. If anything, Cincy took a step back under his watch, despite outrecruiting Kelly.

See? Where do you find any post from me saying he will be wildly successful? You can't...because they don't exist. I like the energy Butch exhibits and the positive accomplishments that have been achieved. He does have to show more coaching chops in both player development and wins. I think you've just revealed YOUR agenda...rhymes with Brian Kelly's grass and your Fred.

 

[sanddune50]

Ok so Butcher is better than Hendrix? Was it Butcher's performance vs UF that led you that conclusion? I'll plug in whatever name you want me to, I just grabbed the first two I thought of. But since you like to make dumbass statements that you have no way of backing up I'd like for you to at least try. What makes Butcher better, how did you conclude this?

Way to gloss over Kamara. And it had nothing to do with saying one was better than the other. It had more to do with you putting words in someone's mouth and creating your own argument. Only person that needs to step up their game with logic and reasoning is you kid. Now go back to the sandbox where your simpleton tricks work on people more clueless than you. You're out of your league with me.

 

[Vol'er15]

I'm UT student and first time poster..please nobody flame me! BUT, I wanted to point out that with the losses of Helm, Hendrix, Scott, Payne, Henderson and Paulk, according to Rivals' 2014 Recruiting Rankings, UT's average star rating, adjusted for 2014 attrition is down to 3.2, from 3.65...which leaves us somewhere below Kentucky, and Mississippi...around #20...not good. I love and support UT...but...this is bad. We are not Bama or Florida...we simply CANNOT afford to lose FIVE 4 star players in Butch's "first" rebuilding class. This is big!

This thought process just doesn't make sense to me though. You can go back and recalculate our star average but what does it matter if our ranking drops to 20 when we have producers like Hurd, Barnett, Robertson etc etc. I would much rather have a 2015 recruiting class ranked 23rd that in the future produces (hypothetical) 3 SEC ALL Americans than a class ranked 9th with one. I feel like what you are doing is pointless in focusing on the ranking instead of the actual production we are getting out of the class.

Edit: BTW I'm also new so welcome to VolNation, and I truly am not trying to flame you. I'm just trying to make this point because I feel like people are getting too caught up in "4 stars leaving" instead of looking at the insane production (for freshman) the 2014 class has had, so I hope the point is well receive and I'm not coming off as a dbag

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Doesn't sound like your original point or when you defended the other one's that Butch was in trouble "spinning his wheels" because of these players transfers. I let concerns about transfers pretty much go ...they're not exactly unique...but when doomsday starts getting forecast and disagreement means someone is "up Butch's ass", then I am drawn back into this. "Sad Volnation World" where you're not exactly a stranger.

Edit:

My stance:

It's not ideal to lose players when trying to rebuild. It's not ideal to replace them with new FR who have never seen a college field.

Your rationale:

BGVol wishes failure upon Butch. The inferring that goes on is strong

Better?

 

[butchna]

This thought process just doesn't make sense to me though. You can go back and recalculate our star average but what does it matter if our ranking drops to 20 when we have producers like Hurd, Barnett, Robertson etc etc. I would much rather have a 2015 recruiting class ranked 23rd that in the future produces (hypothetical) 3 SEC ALL Americans than a class ranked 9th with one. I feel like what you are doing is pointless in focusing on the ranking instead of the actual production we are getting out of the class.

Ditto and if you reranked based on production, a lot of 20th ranked classes get bumped to the top and vice versa...that's why only doomsday nerds get bent out of shape over them.