D'Andre Payne

#376
#376
ajvol01 said:
Martaze Jackson
Allan Carson
Trent Taylor
Dante Omari Phillips
Greg Clark
Darington Sentimore
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Are you arguing that dookey recruited well? I've already won said argument if you are. I've never heard anyone say that he was a great recruiter, so color me speechless.
 
#380
#380
IBLEEDORANGE16 said:
I get what your saying but I'm still not worried. What happens when you sign 30+ recruits? You hope some turn into superstars and the rest stay for depth. If not then replace the ones that leave because some will leave. That's the nature of college football these days. If they were leaving because of something other than playing time then I'd be concerned. My thought...If you can't compete and win the job then more power to you if you want to chase your dream some where else. If your not willing to put in the time and effort then best of luck to you. Next man up.
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You are looking at the overall... and from that perspective the losses are a tad high but no great worry.

The concern is losing so many DE's and especially guys who have played some as young players. There are no "next men up". They aren't leaving because of competition.... because they really aren't competing with anyone. I know it is a popular comfort to some here but it is very, very doubtful that Miller much less Hendrix left because they feared the DE's that UT will sign in February.
 
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#381
#381
P.O.T.S. VOL said:
Yep! And some people just don't get it! They want to compare attrition to other schools! Very few other schools are attempting to recover from what we are attempting to recover from. If you can't compete, i don't want you here....even if you stay and provide depth.....if you can't compete you're dead weight as depth anyways!
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That's why attrition elsewhere isn't as big of a problem as it is here. Your line of thinking is homerish at best and stupid at worse. At a program who has depth and a system in place, like a Bama, attrition is little to worry about. When a program has no quality depth like UT, hence why FR are starting and in the 2-deep all over the place, attrition is a chink in the rebuild process. It's not a positive, like so many are trying to turn it into.
 
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#382
#382
P.O.T.S. VOL said:
You are proof that years if membership here have absolutely no relationship to common sense!

He made the statement....so what.....it is probably true!
Why do you automatically make it out as an excuse?
It could be coach speak....or it could be just factual information!
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It is factual, only because he's lost what would be 10+ returning guys. 10 more SO, RS FR and Jr's would make us an older, more experienced team than 10 true FR. If Butch doesn't succeed, there's going to be a lot of confused folks around here. They wont know whether to follow CBJ or stick with UT, despite CBJ's departure.
 
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#384
#384
P.O.T.S. VOL said:
Nope, only if you spend hours on end repeating the same old dribble as you are the messiah trying to put out the word that something is wrong!
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Nope. Just a lot of people to answer... I guess you don't notice when the "same old dribble" comes from people you agree with.

The cream of the crop stays!
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That isn't necessarily true. Sometimes very good players have reasons for leaving... you just have to take notice if there appears to be very many of them. Like now.
Depth takes a while to regain! WE WILL NOT GET BACK TO WHERE WE WERE IN TWO OR THREE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think you are stupid and don't have a hammer with me, but i do think you are very unrealistic!
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So it is unrealistic for UT but not for Ole Miss or other programs that have made steady and sometimes significant strides in 3 years? Ole Miss didn't really get back to where they were... They haven't been truly relevant in decades.

No. If you keep losing guys before having a real chance to develop their potential... you will NEVER get back. Not 2 or 3 years. Not 5 years. Not 10 years.

This may or may not be a systemic problem. It may be something that the staff needs to adjust. But it really isn't the "non-issue" that so many of you keep trying to tell yourselves.

Which of those schools, any schools, are going through what tennessee is doing through now? None!
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So that would make it even MORE critical not to have high early attrition in a single position group, right?

But this points to another false premise used here; the idea that Jones inherited a situation worse than anyone.

Freeze inherited a situation at least as bad at Ole Miss. Probably worse. Franklin inherited basically nothing at Vandy. Stoops inherited a worse situation at UK. Mullin inherited an awful situation at MSU. So among that group that have dealt with similarly weak programs... which ones saw that kind of attrition from a single position group?
 
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#385
#385
P.O.T.S. VOL said:
You are proof that years if membership here have absolutely no relationship to common sense!

He made the statement....so what.....it is probably true!
Why do you automatically make it out as an excuse?
It could be coach speak....or it could be just factual information!
Click to expand...

So losing the guys he's losing isn't a big deal or the statement cannot be used as a reason/excuse?

I think Jones KNOWS that losing Hendrix and even Miller is a pretty big setback.
 
#386
#386
smokey0625 said:
Are you arguing that dookey recruited well? I've already won said argument if you are. I've never heard anyone say that he was a great recruiter, so color me speechless.
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So many of the guys that were mentioned failed to contribute or left early AND Dooley was a bad recruiter that failed as a coach... but we shouldn't be concerned when we see talented players leave under Jones?
 
#387
#387
bowlinggreenvol said:
That's why attrition elsewhere isn't as big of a problem as it is here. At a program who has depth and a system in place, like a Bama, attrition is little to worry about. When a program has no quality depth like UT, hence why FR are starting and in the 2-deep all over the place, attrition is a chink in the rebuild process. It's not a positive, like so many are trying to turn it into.
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Who is trying to turn it into a positive? Not me! Prove it! Every thing you said above is commonsense and everyone knows this. You must have replied to the wrong post! I am simply tired of people referring to other schools and comparing numbers without looking at unique situations. Maybe i should have made it easier on you!

bowlinggreenvol said:
It is factual, only because he's lost what would be 10+ returning guys. 10 more SO, RS FR and Jr's would make us an older, more experienced team than 10 true FR. If Butch doesn't succeed, there's going to be a lot of confused folks around here. They wont know whether to follow CBJ or stick with UT, despite CBJ's departure.
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Again, most people already know this. You're like a back seat driver! It is what it is right now and your money and practice visits don't change a darn thing! If Butch doesn't succeed no one is going to be confused, seriously dude! And I guess you will be the only one who isn't "confused" b/c you understand much more then anyone else? Get a grip!
 
#389
#389
bowlinggreenvol said:
That's why attrition elsewhere isn't as big of a problem as it is here. Your line of thinking is homerish at best and stupid at worse. At a program who has depth and a system in place, like a Bama, attrition is little to worry about. When a program has no quality depth like UT, hence why FR are starting and in the 2-deep all over the place, attrition is a chink in the rebuild process. It's not a positive, like so many are trying to turn it into.
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I'm not understanding why so many people are arguing with this point.
 
#390
#390
sjt18 said:
So many of the guys that were mentioned failed to contribute or left early AND Dooley was a bad recruiter that failed as a coach... but we shouldn't be concerned when we see talented players leave under Jones?
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Not if we are bringing in good talent. And fools players didn't leave. Unfortunately his players only left if they committed a crime or jones ran them off.
 
#393
#393
sjt18 said:
Nope. Just a lot of people to answer... I guess you don't notice when the "same old dribble" comes from people you agree with.

That isn't necessarily true. Sometimes very good players have reasons for leaving... you just have to take notice if there appears to be very many of them. Like now. So it is unrealistic for UT but not for Ole Miss or other programs that have made steady and sometimes significant strides in 3 years? Ole Miss didn't really get back to where they were... They have been truly relevant in decades.

No. If you keep losing guys before having a real chance to develop their potential... you will NEVER get back. Not 2 or 3 years. Not 5 years. Not 10 years.

This may or may not be a systemic problem. It may be something that the staff needs to adjust. But it really isn't the "non-issue" that so many of you keep trying to tell yourselves.

So that would make it even MORE critical not to have high early attrition in a single position group, right?

But this points to another false premise used here; the idea that Jones inherited a situation worse than anyone.

Freeze inherited a situation at least as bad at Ole Miss. Probably worse. Franklin inherited basically nothing at Vandy. Stoops inherited a worse situation at UK. Mullin inherited an awful situation at MSU. So among that group that have dealt with similarly weak programs... which ones saw that kind of attrition from a single position group?
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Haven't really studied up in it and don't care...if this is truly the beginning of the end, we'll acknowledge that you and Bowl did the heavy lifting at the post apocalyptic awards dinner...until then, these benchmarks you incessantly cite from OTHER programs are going to be disregarded...there's no set blueprint for rebuilding a powerhouse and since Ole Miss and Mississippi State aren't traditional powers, I'm not sure why you continue to use them as examples. I don't know that Butch's way will work, but I'm willing to risk HIS job that he succeeds...gonna happen that way regardless.
 
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#394
#394
P.O.T.S. VOL said:
Who is trying to turn it into a positive? Not me! Prove it! Every thing you said above is commonsense and everyone knows this. You must have replied to the wrong post! I am simply tired of people referring to other schools and comparing numbers without looking at unique situations. Maybe i should have made it easier on you!



Again, most people already know this. You're like a back seat driver! It is what it is right now and your money and practice visits don't change a darn thing! If Butch doesn't succeed no one is going to be confused, seriously dude! And I guess you will be the only one who isn't "confused" b/c you understand much more then anyone else? Get a grip!
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Guess you don't read too well. 80% of the posts regarding the transfers are labeling them busts, non-contributors, will never see the field, makes room for better players, doesn't hurt depth, we'll be better without them, not worried about losing them etc. Go back and read how many simpletons fail to see this common sense I speak of.
 
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#395
#395
bowlinggreenvol said:
It is factual, only because he's lost what would be 10+ returning guys. 10 more SO, RS FR and Jr's would make us an older, more experienced team than 10 true FR. If Butch doesn't succeed, there's going to be a lot of confused folks around here. They wont know whether to follow CBJ or stick with UT, despite CBJ's departure.
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Are you counting Henderson and Paulk? If so, I don't see how you would count them as "lost returnees". If Butch doesn't succeed we'll be smart enough to realize it...worrying about failure that hasn't happened doesn't sound like much fun...I'll pass.
 
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#396
#396
bowlinggreenvol said:
Guess you don't read too well. 80% of the posts regarding the transfers are labeling them busts, non-contributors, will never see the field, makes room for better players, doesn't hurt depth, we'll be better without them, not worried about losing them etc. Go back and read how many simpletons fail to see this common sense I speak of.
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"Simpletons"..."dumb"..."moronic"....hard to see why people haven't warmed up to you. :)
 
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#398
#398
butchna said:
Are you counting Henderson and Paulk? If so, I don't see how you would count them as "lost returnees". If Butch doesn't succeed we'll be smart enough to realize it...worrying about failure that hasn't happened doesn't sound like much fun...I'll pass.
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8 then
 
#400
#400
bowlinggreenvol said:
With all the on field success at this point its hard to see why I don't bow at the altar of Butch like everyone else.
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Why is showing support considered?....I won't even type that...if what Butch is doing doesn't translate to an acceptable number of wins, you'll get what you want...whatever that is.
 
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