Dance Instructor and student detained by Police...

#51
#51
Obsessed said:
Was he dressed like the pics you posted when officers approached? I imagine not. I'd imagine he was clean cut and dressed casually.

You and your racism. Never ceases to exist.
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Race is being used here as a proxy for the fact that the simple reality is that he did not appear to be related to her. Had it been a 13 year old black girl and a 29 year old white male, asleep in a car in the middle of the night, same result. Its going to get checked into and a note, notarized or not, just isn't going to be a hall pass for this.
 
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#52
#52
lawgator1 said:
Race is being used here as a proxy for the fact that the simple reality is that he did not appear to be related to her. Had it been a 13 year old black girl and a 29 year old white male, asleep in a car in the middle of the night, same result. Its going to get checked into and a note, notarized or not, just isn't going to be a hall pass for this.
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As far as the "note". If I keep my brothers kids while he's out of town I get one. Notarized and all. It allows me the ability to have them treated if sick or simply take them to and from school.
 
#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
We'll agree to disagree then. Onward and upward.
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Again, what was the probable cause for the police to involve themselves? Is it illegal to take a nap in a car in NY? Was it ages or race differences?

What did CPS do to verify everything was ok that the LEO couldn't have done right there on location?
 
#55
#55
lawgator1 said:
Its going to get checked into and a note, notarized or not, just isn't going to be a hall pass for this.
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It's a helluva good starting point to their story having some credibility and not to default to cuffs and shipping off a 13yo. You want to check out the story a bit more? Fine...do it...but it absolutely did not have to go where it went.
 
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#56
#56
lawgator1 said:
We'll agree to disagree then. Onward and upward.
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Right.

So, here's the thing. I have a sister who is nearly fifteen years younger than I am. Further, she was adopted from China.

If, when my sister was 13, my brother (would have been 30), myself (would have been 28), and my sister (13) were on a road trip, and decided to save money and just get a quick nap in at a highway rest area, would you think the police ought to cuff my brother and I and send my sister to CPS until everything was 'sorted out'?

At age 13, she did not have any photo identification. My brother and I would not have had any note whatsoever, certainly not anything notarized, and my parents are the types who hardly ever answer their phones.

But, according to you, this would be the right thing for the police to do. Would it be the right thing if my little sister were white? Then, it would just be two white guys and a much younger white girl. Would it be the right thing if my brother and I were black, and my sister were white?

Sure, the vast majority of siblings are closely connected in age (and, share the same skin color). Yet, my sister and I are not; my mother is 9 years older than her brother; and, my father, who is one of ten, is seven years younger than his oldest brother and eight years older than his youngest brother (seven years older than his youngest sister). The age gap is unusual, but it is not criminal and it does not warrant cuffing and detention.

In fact, were that situation to happen, I would patently refuse to be placed in handcuffs, the result would probably be the use of physical force to place me in handcuffs, and I would respond by suing the police department.

Thus, even the CYA angle on this one is ridiculous.
 
#57
#57
therealUT said:
Right.

So, here's the thing. I have a sister who is nearly fifteen years younger than I am. Further, she was adopted from China.

If, when my sister was 13, my brother (would have been 30), myself (would have been 28), and my sister (13) were on a road trip, and decided to save money and just get a quick nap in at a highway rest area, would you think the police ought to cuff my brother and I and send my sister to CPS until everything was 'sorted out'?

At age 13, she did not have any photo identification. My brother and I would not have had any note whatsoever, certainly not anything notarized, and my parents are the types who hardly ever answer their phones.

But, according to you, this would be the right thing for the police to do. Would it be the right thing if my little sister were white? Then, it would just be two white guys and a much younger white girl. Would it be the right thing if my brother and I were black, and my sister were white?

Sure, the vast majority of siblings are closely connected in age (and, share the same skin color). Yet, my sister and I are not; my mother is 9 years older than her brother; and, my father, who is one of ten, is seven years younger than his oldest brother and eight years older than his youngest brother (seven years older than his youngest sister). The age gap is unusual, but it is not criminal and it does not warrant cuffing and detention.

In fact, were that situation to happen, I would patently refuse to be placed in handcuffs, the result would probably be the use of physical force to place me in handcuffs, and I would respond by suing the police department.

Thus, even the CYA angle on this one is ridiculous.
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If I'm conducting an investigation with multiple subjects you get cuffed upon entering my patrol car. Dept. policy. Sue me.
 
#58
#58
punkcat said:
If I'm conducting an investigation with multiple subjects you get cuffed upon entering my patrol car. Dept. policy. Sue me.
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In this case what would have been your probable cause to initiate an investigation?
 
#59
#59
punkcat said:
If I'm conducting an investigation with multiple subjects you get cuffed upon entering my patrol car. Dept. policy. Sue me.
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Can a investigator be conducted with out hand cuffs? With out being in a squad car?
 
#60
#60
punkcat said:
If I'm conducting an investigation with multiple subjects you get cuffed upon entering my patrol car. Dept. policy. Sue me.
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I wouldn't enter your patrol car. You would have to force me, against my will.

Hell, I've already received one formal and official letter and apology from the State Highway Patrol in Illinois, after a lengthy internal investigation (which, by the way, resulted in leave without pay for the officer involved). I'll gladly take another to throw into my file drawer in the future.

Any law enforcement officer had better be able to clearly state his reasons for suspicion and his probable cause before I will even hand over my drivers license.
 
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#61
#61
Obsessed said:
As far as the "note". If I keep my brothers kids while he's out of town I get one. Notarized and all. It allows me the ability to have them treated if sick or simply take them to and from school.
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You, and they, live there. And presumably you don't sleep in cars.
 
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#62
#62
lawgator1 said:
You, and they, live there. And presumably you don't sleep in cars.
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So, in order to avoid being hassled by the police, law-abiding citizens must shell out money for hotel rooms? Further, what, in your opinion, makes that situation better? I.e., the two BLACK men and the one WHITE girl getting a hotel suite? Or, they would have to shell out even more money to get two rooms, right? Would you require someone from the hotel to sleep in the hallway to ensure that nobody went between the rooms?
 
#63
#63
therealUT said:
I wouldn't enter your patrol car. You would have to force me, against my will.

Hell, I've already received one formal and official letter and apology from the State Highway Patrol in Illinois, after a lengthy internal investigation (which, by the way, resulted in leave without pay for the officer involved). I'll gladly take another to throw into my file drawer in the future.

Any law enforcement officer had better be able to clearly state his reasons for suspicion and his probable cause before I will even hand over my drivers license.
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Really? (Meaning apology)

I could imagine a officer rolling up on you after a tough day, trying to push his/her way.

TRUT would've been on the 6 o'clock news.
 
#64
#64
Obsessed said:
Really? (Meaning apology)

I could imagine a officer rolling up on you after a tough day, trying to push his/her way.

TRUT would've been on the 6 o'clock news.
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Yeah. Officer pulled me over while my wife and I were driving a U-Haul from Kansas to Boston. He refused to give me a reason for pulling me over, and demanded I open the back of the truck. Without any reason given, I refused to hand over my id. He started shouting, I rolled my window up. He tried opening the door, then started banging on the window. I began to look up the phone number for the state patrol. While i was doing so, he opened the back of the truck. I got out, my wife called the police. Another squad car pulled up a the two of us were engaged in quite a colorful conversation.
 
#65
#65
therealUT said:
Yeah. Officer pulled me over while my wife and I were driving a U-Haul from Kansas to Boston. He refused to give me a reason for pulling me over, and demanded I open the back of the truck. Without any reason given, I refused to hand over my id. He started shouting, I rolled my window up. He tried opening the door, then started banging on the window. I began to look up the phone number for the state patrol. While i was doing so, he opened the back of the truck. I got out, my wife called the police. Another squad car pulled up a the two of us were engaged in quite a colorful conversation.
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Holy crap.

I'll be honest, I'm surprised you weren't not with 50,000 volts of electricity as soon as you stepped out of the truck. Wow.

Were you arrested? Or were things able to calm down and you guys go on your way?
 
#67
#67
therealUT said:
Yeah. Officer pulled me over while my wife and I were driving a U-Haul from Kansas to Boston. He refused to give me a reason for pulling me over, and demanded I open the back of the truck. Without any reason given, I refused to hand over my id. He started shouting, I rolled my window up. He tried opening the door, then started banging on the window. I began to look up the phone number for the state patrol. While i was doing so, he opened the back of the truck. I got out, my wife called the police. Another squad car pulled up a the two of us were engaged in quite a colorful conversation.
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So did he find your stash?
 
#68
#68
therealUT said:
So, in order to avoid being hassled by the police, law-abiding citizens must shell out money for hotel rooms? Further, what, in your opinion, makes that situation better? I.e., the two BLACK men and the one WHITE girl getting a hotel suite? Or, they would have to shell out even more money to get two rooms, right? Would you require someone from the hotel to sleep in the hallway to ensure that nobody went between the rooms?
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I'm saying it would have looked in need of investigation, followed by the fact that the police felt that CPS was better equipped to figure out if there was a problem for the girl. Perfect? No.

But sensible? Yes.
 
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#70
#70
lawgator1 said:
I'm saying it would have looked in need of investigation, followed by the fact that the police felt that CPS was better equipped to figure out if there was a problem for the girl. Perfect? No.

But sensible? Yes.
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Why not ask the girl?
 
#71
#71
Obsessed said:
Holy crap.

I'll be honest, I'm surprised you weren't not with 50,000 volts of electricity as soon as you stepped out of the truck. Wow.

Were you arrested? Or were things able to calm down and you guys go on your way?
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No, wasn't arrested. The ****ed up thing, is I received a citation from that officer for refusing to comply or some BS statute of the sort. I called the clerk of the court that I would have had to appear in, told her the situation, told her that an investigation was being conducted by the department, and she refused to postpone the court date. I told her that it would cost me more to fly to Illinois than to pay the citation, and she told me, "I should not have broken the law". Again, after some colorful words, it was made quite clear that if I either failed to pay the citation or appear in court, a warrant would be issued in the State of Illinois. So, I paid it, and about three weeks later received the official letter from the department...but, of course, no refund. Which is why next time, it will come to physical force. At least that way, the investigation will be conducted immediately, and, if all goes well, I'll still be alive and receive a settlement, instead of paying.
 
#72
#72
lawgator1 said:
No, but sleeping with a hound teenage girl with whom you are not related is going to lead to them checking it out.
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Yeah. If they had been in a room it would have looked much better.

Every time I kidnap someone we sleep in the car.
 
#75
#75
lawgator1 said:
I'm saying it would have looked in need of investigation, followed by the fact that the police felt that CPS was better equipped to figure out if there was a problem for the girl. Perfect? No.

But sensible? Yes.
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Why is taking a nap in the car in need of investigation? Is it illegal in NY?
 
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