Dabo vs Butch

#152
#152
Orange_Vol1321 said:
You all are really stretching trying to compare situations and coaches for the fahr butch crowd. And Butch is in Year 4 to me considering he came in with one month to recruit his first year.
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Its not really a stretch. Jones is graduating his first class. He has two 5th rated classes on the roster. Dabo has a 6th rated class and a 4th rated class. Jones 2 best classes are SOs and JRs, Dabo's are FR and SO's. Jones other 2 classes average 18, Dabo's 14.

Recruiting going forward for both programs will be interesting to watch. Jones got a lot out public run out of his 2 top 5 classes. I wonder how much that perception changes when he follows that up with a 15 and probably something between 12-15 this year.
 
#153
#153
Wylo said:
Vandy x2, Muschamp x every time, and the entire SEC West disagree with you.
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Muschamp's teams had more talent in 2013 and 2014. And once again for you thick headed negas, coaches coach and players play. Unless you really think Charlie Weatherbie (ULM coach in 2007) is better than Saban?
 
#155
#155
I keep seeing people reference losing games we should have won based on talent. Can someone tell me what games these were besides Vandy and South Carolina this year
 
#156
#156
JFreak said:
Muschamp's teams had more talent in 2013 and 2014. And once again for you thick headed negas, coaches coach and players play. Unless you really think Charlie Weatherbie (ULM coach in 2007) is better than Saban?
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I don't think Muschamp had a talent advantage in 2014.

Coaches are responsible for how their players play.
 
#157
#157
BeecherVol said:
What does that have to do with Bowden not needing to recruit better because he was in the ACC?
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My bad. I thought I saw a post that Dabo took over a stacked team and that made it unfair to compare with Butch because he took over a disaster.

Bowden having that record should have expected to be fired, even at Clemson.
 
#158
#158
BBushVols said:
I keep seeing people reference losing games we should have won based on talent. Can someone tell me what games these were besides Vandy and South Carolina this year
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Vandy 2013

Florida 2014

Florida & Arkansas 2015 *Should have won against Oklahoma but didn't lose because of talent.

Texas AM, SC, and Vandy 2016
 
#159
#159
Iam4utalways said:
My bad. I thought I saw a post that Dabo took over a stacked team and that made it unfair to compare with Butch because he took over a disaster.

Bowden having that record should have expected to be fired, even at Clemson.
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Last I heard Tommy West was a position coach at Middle.
 
#160
#160
Volst53 said:
I don't think Muschamp had a talent advantage in 2014.

Coaches are responsible for how their players play.
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Don't have time to check, but believe we played something like 18 freshman in 2014. Look who each team sent to the draft the next 2 years.
 
#161
#161
JFreak said:
...Charlie Weatherbie (ULM coach in 2007) ...
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96-695.jpg

Respect.

IMG_2269.jpg

ULM P-40s! WarHawks!
 
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#162
#162
Volst53 said:
Vandy 2013

Florida 2014

Florida & Arkansas 2015 *Should have won against Oklahoma but didn't lose because of talent.

Texas AM, SC, and Vandy 2016
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Florida 2014 had more talent. Florida 2015 was probably on par. At the time both teams stepped on the field, TAM had more talent than us.. there's a reason they were favored by 7 pts.
 
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#163
#163
Volinnooga said:
I am saying that even if we got got to the championship game and lost, many would gripe and complain and blame the loss on Butch.
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No they wouldn't. If it makes you feel better to think that way, then run with it but I to me, trying to delegitimize the argument as "fans complaining" is weak. Sure, there will always be complaining no matter what. But 99.9 % of reasonable fans on this board would have been overjoyed with a win against Vandy and the Vols playing in the Sugar Bowl. What we made it to the playoffs this year, fans would have been molding statues and replacing street signs.
 
#165
#165
Volst53 said:
Vandy 2013

Florida 2014

Florida & Arkansas 2015 *Should have won against Oklahoma but didn't lose because of talent.

Texas AM, SC, and Vandy 2016
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This proves my point. Everyone is stuck in the 90's with saying "it's Vandy".

He barely recruited and went up against Vandy with Dooley players. Just like that joint in your avatar, let it go.
 
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#166
#166
volfannbama said:
Dabo won is division 2 times in his first four years. We are till waiting to see how long it will take CBJ to win his division twice.
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he did....and the division was down, but at least he was the best of a bad Atl Div, but it is congradulatory.

09 - really didn't beat anyone of consequence...the U maybe, but they weren't too good either...and managed to lose to a pitiful Maryland team and bad SC squad. Good for him Bowden was trending down and asked to leave after the season.

11 - beat VT twice that year, and they were pretty good, but no one else that ended ranked higher. Also, managed to lose to GT, NCSU and get spanked by a lower ranked WVU team.

so, by VN logic...doesn't sound like a "good" coach; after all they don't lose games they should win. First 4 years he beat 2, maybe 3 teams that were ranked / seemingly better and lost 5 games to underranked and lesser talented teams. Oh, but it's his first HC job, admittedly did win his Div and he's not UT's coach...so....he's was a "proven" winner by year 4.
 
#167
#167
Volinnooga said:
I am saying that even if we got got to the championship game and lost, many would gripe and complain and blame the loss on Butch.
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I would gripe and complain. If a team is good enough get there they are good enough to win.

To blame it all on Butch that's cool I guess, but it's never one play or one player or one coach when two teams compete. Many factors are at play, I can't recall a game where luck didn't play some role. Don't forget it's a game of inches and split seconds that require human judgement. Blame it on one thing and move along, that makes the most sense.

Go Vols!
 
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#168
#168
JC61 said:
he did....and the division was down, but at least he was the best of a bad Atl Div, but it is congradulatory.

09 - really didn't beat anyone of consequence...the U maybe, but they weren't too good either...and managed to lose to a pitiful Maryland team and bad SC squad. Good for him Bowden was trending down and asked to leave after the season.

11 - beat VT twice that year, and they were pretty good, but no one else that ended ranked higher. Also, managed to lose to GT, NCSU and get spanked by a lower ranked WVU team.

so, by VN logic...doesn't sound like a "good" coach; after all they don't lose games they should win. First 4 years he beat 2, maybe 3 teams that were ranked / seemingly better and lost 5 games to underranked and lesser talented teams. Oh, but it's his first HC job, admittedly did win his Div and he's not UT's coach...so....he's was a "proven" winner by year 4.
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They beat Florida State in 2011. Pretty big win for Dabo, Florida State had a 9 win season that year too and that is always a big win for them.
 
#170
#170
JC61 said:
he did....and the division was down, but at least he was the best of a bad Atl Div, but it is congradulatory.

09 - really didn't beat anyone of consequence...the U maybe, but they weren't too good either...and managed to lose to a pitiful Maryland team and bad SC squad. Good for him Bowden was trending down and asked to leave after the season.

11 - beat VT twice that year, and they were pretty good, but no one else that ended ranked higher. Also, managed to lose to GT, NCSU and get spanked by a lower ranked WVU team.

so, by VN logic...doesn't sound like a "good" coach; after all they don't lose games they should win. First 4 years he beat 2, maybe 3 teams that were ranked / seemingly better and lost 5 games to underranked and lesser talented teams. Oh, but it's his first HC job, admittedly did win his Div and he's not UT's coach...so....he's was a "proven" winner by year 4.
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09 beat 10 Miami went to a bowl (won division)
10 bad season beat 25 NC State
11 beat 21 Auburn, 11 Florida St., 11 VT , 5 VT (Won conference, won division
12 beat 25 Auburn , 9 LSU (tied for 1st in division)

13 beat 11 South Carolina (5-7 no bowl)
14 lost to every ranked opponent
15 beat 19 Georgia
16 Beat 19 UF and 25 UGA

Wins against ranked teams DS – 8 BJ – 4
Win Division - DS – 3 (1 tie) BJ – 0
Won Conference - DS – 1 BJ - 0
 
#171
#171
kerry4vols said:
They beat Florida State in 2011. Pretty big win for Dabo, Florida State had a 9 win season that year too and that is always a big win for them.
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they did...and yes, its a big game in division much like UF and UGA for us.

my point being...they ended up ranked lower than Clemson, which according to most...means it should be a given and not as significant as beating "better" teams.
 
#172
#172
Volteacher said:
Just to compare. Not meant to be bashing or supporting just looking at stats ONLY......

Dabo conference record first 4 years..... 19-10
Butch...... 14-18

Overall record Dabo...... 29-19 Bowl record 1-3
Butch....... 30-21........ Bowl record 3-0

Dabo one conference and one division title
Butch None

Recruiting
Dabo..... 31, 28, 10, 15 ( first 4 full years)
Butch..... 24, 7, 4, 14

Butch champions of life
Dabo champions of life, love and football

Food for thought
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Looks like Butch played in a tougher conference those first 4 years...overall records were about the same...

Clemson's SOS for Dabo's first 4 seasons was: 36, 23, 30 and 41...avg of 33

Tennessee's SOS for Butch's first 4 seasons was: 33, 24, 12 and 24...avg of 23

Overall pretty close results between Dabo and Butch in their first 4 years...

Interesting to note that Dabo took over a program that went 31-18 (0.63) in the previous 4 years while Butch took over a program that went 23-27 (0.46)...

Can Butch sign a "magic" QB like Watson? Or Newton? Or Tebow? Or Young?
 
#173
#173
volfannbama said:
09 beat 10 Miami went to a bowl (won division)
10 bad season beat 25 NC State
11 beat 21 Auburn, 11 Florida St., 11 VT , 5 VT (Won conference, won division
12 beat 25 Auburn , 9 LSU (tied for 1st in division)

13 beat 11 South Carolina (5-7 no bowl)
14 lost to every ranked opponent
15 beat 19 Georgia
16 Beat 19 UF and 25 UGA

Wins against ranked teams DS – 8 BJ – 4
Win Division - DS – 3 (1 tie) BJ – 0
Won Conference - DS – 1 BJ - 0
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Completely on board with what you're saying, but counting bowl games Butch beat Northwestern and Nebraska who were both ranked. I'm not by any means defending Butch Jones, not at all just for stats purposes.
 
#174
#174
Good lord I wish we could get past this. how many other coaches you want to compare to Sweeney. Unless they won it all, nobody is going to stack up. Period. And with that, my 100th post
 
#175
#175
Orange_Vol1321 said:
This proves my point. Everyone is stuck in the 90's with saying "it's Vandy".

He barely recruited and went up against Vandy with Dooley players. Just like that joint in your avatar, let it go.
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Seriously he lost to Vandy not once but twice in 4 years, we keep hearing he wasnt left with anything, cupboard was bare. Even dooley recruited better than Vandy did with his time here! Rivals 2010 UT 9th Vandy 65th, 2011 UT 13th Vandy 75th, 2012 UT 17th Vandy 30th, Their one year better 2013 UT 21st Vandy 20th, 2014 UT 5th Vandy 51st. You can see this isnt the same ole Vandy, but they still have their sucky recruiting classes and terrible coach they want to run off, yet Butch has been beaten twice since he has been at UT while our talent advantage has been BIG. That 20th Vandy finished in 2013 is their best ever finish in football, we should lose once every blue moon to that team, yet precious lost to them and Jones has done the exact same thing. Since 1927 UT has lost 12 times to Vandy in total of 88 games with 3 ties. We have lost 4 times in past 12 years, 1 for Fulmer, 1 for Precious and 2 for Butch, That isnt a good perception of a program!
 
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