Curley Hallman on Fulmer and Pruitt

[VolFreakJosh]

I am more and more convinced too that Fulmer’s success at UT was more Cutcliffe’s success. Cutt was a dang fine coach and UT was never the same when he left the scene. We had a brief resurgence when he returned for a short time; but Fulmer could never recapture the magic with any other OC

Fulmer was a victim of his own success.

Hiring incompetent assistants and being lazy on the recruiting trail was embarrassing.

I guess in his mind, he thought his job was safe no matter what until the boosters finally got tired of him.

Nobody will forget that 98 National Championship but I don’t believe Fulmer’s legacy will ever be the same when he officially retires from the program unless he fires Pruitt and makes the right hire this time.

This may be his last chance to do so.

 

[GVol1966]

That’s a comparison of apples to oranges, my friend.

We hired Beldar on a long term play with a 5-year time frame, which was extended last year for overachievement. Seeing JG revert to form this year only solidifies that interpretation of the 2019 campaign. Losses to BYU and GSU appear to have been the norm for that squad and not the aberrations we all assumed.

What’s more, we have an AD that is against the quick axe in general. My point is that I think the days of booster oligarchs governing the program by popular whim are over. That’s my hope, at least.

We’re on a slow play, so let’s buckle up with our 2-7 offsuit and see how the cards roll out on the River.

You’re joking right? No blue font?
Overachievement? In a season he lost to Geo St? So now we’re considering beating teams worse than us like we should overarching?
Because that’s all the win streak was, beating teams we should of beat!

 

[hog88]

Its insanity... sort of like firing coaches repeatedly and thinking you’ll get the hire right the next time.

Pruitt may not be the guy, but somehow the dynamic has to change.

Pruitt isn't the guy.

 

[BeardedVol]

Also, nothing in your post contradicts the fact that popular and correct are not the same thing.

BTS are wildly popular, but I think we’d all agree they’re God-awful.

Where did I say that they were? You seem to believe that the administration is making the unpopular "correct" choice, that is correct only because of the fact that the administration is the one making it rather than the fans.

I'll ask again, when has the "stay the course" plan actually paid off for any of the previous ADs who were faced with an underperforming coach and chose the "unpopular" option of giving the coach more time?

 

[JVol76]

I disagree, our VolNation arm chair coaches are the best in football.
Check their stats.
I hope that we can keep enough posters to keep VolNation viable next year when they all get jobs at P5 schools and get too busy to post their knowledge.
Losing the arm chair coaches and the couch ADs who know so much about hiring coaches may be more than Freak can overcome. It is difficult to keep such talent.

Your post is exactly like the head coaching careers of Hallman and Pruitt, an absolute failure.

 

[hog88]

You sir are a broken record and a bore.

How is Fulmer going to fix it?

 

[BeardedVol]

Pruitt isn't the guy.

“What should be done eventually, must be done immediately.” - Jeremy Foley

 

[VFL-82-JP]

What is an 'appeal to authority' logical fallacy, ghost of Alex Trebek.

Volnation's official go-to logical fallacy.

You should've kept reading:

Exception: Be very careful not to confuse "deferring to an authority on the issue" with the appeal to authority fallacy. Remember, a fallacy is an error in reasoning. Dismissing the council [sic] of legitimate experts and authorities turns good skepticism into denialism. The appeal to authority is a fallacy in argumentation, but deferring to an authority is a reliable heuristic that we all use virtually every day....

You act as if every time a person recognizes that another person has more expertise, that's automatically a logical fallacy. It actually usually is not.

People with experience and authority in a field know more about that field than the rest of us. It's usually wise to at least hear them out.

“What should be done eventually, must be done immediately.” - Jeremy Foley

"I think not" --Everyone (who will die eventually)

 

[Fullfillmer]

Pretty sure the ar

I disagree, our VolNation arm chair coaches are the best in football.
Check their stats.
I hope that we can keep enough posters to keep VolNation viable next year when they all get jobs at P5 schools and get too busy to post their knowledge.
Losing the arm chair coaches and the couch ADs who know so much about hiring coaches may be more than Freak can overcome. It is difficult to keep such talent.

i’m pretty sure the armchair coaches and ads would’ve switched quarterbacks quite a while back. in the process they would have possibly saved Pruitt’s job. It’s not as if JG suddenly became an immobile and inaccurate lower tier quarterback. it is honestly hard to tell how good or bad our coaches and the team is with JG at the controls. Saturday’s game should be telling.

 

[hog88]

No... we should get better at hiring people. Derek Dooley was the most inexplicable coaching hire I’ve seen in the SEC in my lifetime. That hire, along with Kiffin leaving after one year effectively nuked the program. 3 coaches in 5 years is the equivalent of giving yourself probation and we’ve never recovered.

Nobody wanted to work for Hamilton after the Kiffen/Dooley debacle and it snowballed from there. A competent AD could hire the right coach to get us out of this morass of being a cellar dweller.

 

[BeardedVol]

You should've kept reading:

You act as if every time a person recognizes that another person has more expertise, that's automatically a logical fallacy. It actually usually is not.

People with experience and authority in a field know more about that field than the rest of us. It's usually wise to at least hear them out.

His premise is that Hallman is correct because, and I quote "He knows more about coaching and rebuilding than you do, no matter what his record was.", not because what he stated was actually backed up by any supporting evidence.

It really couldn't be more of an example of not refuting the actual argument, but rather on trying to highlight the person's expertise, as to why they are "correct", rather than providing a substantive defense of their argument.

 

[hog88]

Yeah, he struggled all the way to a National Championship.

1 NC and pissed away the chance at 2 more.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

His premise is that Hallman is correct because, and I quote "He knows more about coaching and rebuilding than you do, no matter what his record was.", not because what he stated was actually backed up by any supporting evidence.

It really couldn't be more of an example of not refuting the actual argument, but rather on trying to highlight the person's expertise, as to why they are "correct", rather than providing a substantive defense of their argument.

Bearded, you don't get that logical fallacy. You might want to stop accusing others of it.

 

[BeardedVol]

Bearded, you don't get that logical fallacy. You might want to stop accusing others of it.

I get it that you feel the need to support your brethren in the church, but you can't retroactively change what he posted. His entire premise is as he stated, that Hallman is correct, because of his football knowledge, not because of any factual basis for his opinions on Pruitt.

It really doesn't get much clearer, I can't help you if you can't follow that.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I get it that you feel the need to support your brethren in the church, but you can't retroactively change what he posted. His entire premise is as he stated, that Hallman is correct, because of his football knowledge, not because of any factual basis for his opinions on Pruitt.

It really doesn't get much clearer, I can't help you if you can't follow that.

Ah, and an ad hominem attack, just to underscore your limitations in logical argument.

btw, if you think I'm in some pro-Jeremy church, you sorely misunderstand what I think of the current situation.

 

[BeardedVol]

Ah, and an ad hominem attack, just to underscore your limitations in logical argument.

btw, if you think I'm in some pro-Jeremy church, you sorely misunderstand what I think of the current situation.

Lol shoe fits, looks like a duck, etc. etc...

Again, I can't help you if you want to go back and rewrite his fallacious "Hallman has football knowledge" argument for him; that's not how it works. It is what it is at this point.

 

[JVol76]

Ah, and an ad hominem attack, just to underscore your limitations in logical argument.

btw, if you think I'm in some pro-Jeremy church, you sorely misunderstand what I think of the current situation.

You have no argument to make, nothing more than a meritless opinion based on nothing of relevance or substance and certainly not one rooted in truth. Keep trying though, it's entertaining watching you struggle to keep up.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Nobody wanted to work for Hamilton after the Kiffen/Dooley debacle and it snowballed from there. A competent AD could hire the right coach to get us out of this morass of being a cellar dweller.

Just to think if Hamilton never snubbed Gary Patterson, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

I think coaches finally realized we don’t take winning seriously.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

You have no argument to make, nothing more than a meritless opinion based on nothing of relevance or substance and certainly not one rooted in truth. Keep trying though, it's entertaining watching you struggle to keep up.

I recognize that you've jumped in because you think Bearded needs help. I think he needs help, as well. But you're not helping him in any meaningful way. You're just adding insults. That's actually even worse than Bearded was doing on his own.

 

[BeardedVol]

Just to think if Hamilton never snubbed Gary Patterson, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

I think coaches finally realized we don’t take winning seriously.

Hell, if he was dead set on getting Kiffin, he could have had UT's legal team write up a contract that made it actually financially difficult to hire Kiffin away.

There are car dealerships in Knoxville that could have afforded Kiffin's buyout at UT.

 

[JVol76]

I recognize that you've jumped in because you think Bearded needs help. I think he needs help, as well. But you're not helping him in any meaningful way. You're just adding insults. That's actually even worse than Bearded was doing on his own.

I don't need to help him with anything, I'm simply pointing out your ignorance. I mean I don't really HAVE to do that you're doing an excellent job on your own. Once again, your argument is null and void and has absolutely no substance at all. Keep trying, you get as many chances as you want.

 

[MWAVolfan]

He knows more about coaching and rebuilding than you do, no matter what his record was.

Sorry, which program did he successfully rebuild?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I don't need to help him with anything, I'm simply pointing out your ignorance. I mean I don't really HAVE to do that you're doing an excellent job on your own. Once again, your argument is null and void and has absolutely no substance at all. Keep trying, you get as many chances as you want.

Heh. Speaking of no substance....

 

[GAVol]

Barry Alvarez says hi.

...the only other exception I can think of in Power 5. Like I said, I like him, but I’m not sure how smart it is to put a football coach in charge of a $150 million+ enterprise.

 

[landscapingvol]

Sorry, which program did he successfully rebuild?

He hasn't and it's the primary reason he has never been a head coach again. The OP is grasping at straws for any outside opinion that supports the notion that Pruitt deserves more time. When Pruitt isn't hired again as head coach for a long, long time following his experiment at UT, it still won't register in their minds that he was a terrible hire in the first place. It's the same reason Dooley has never been a head coach again and the only reason Jones was rehired is because AD's believe that Saban's mystique will somehow rub off on his assistant coaches. If time were the answers to those two disasters, then they would have been rehired immediately after leaving UT. Giving a coach more time doesn't magically make them better just like practicing the same flawed golf swing over and over doesn't make you a better golfer. If we could point to areas of strengths for Pruitt that have really improved the team, then there would be some logic behind the more time argument, but outside of a handful of players on defense and Eric Gray, there has been little to no measurable improvement and this year's recruiting class will put to bed the fallacy that he is an elite recruiter.