Curious about ZZ minutes.

[Dougie_D]

Last season it felt like ZZ played every minute every game. Was that because Gainey and Freddie aren’t true point guards? I was assuming that Boswell was a combo guard, but will he be a better point guard option than Gainey? Or will Chaz get playing time at the 1 ?
Or are we gonna see ZZ for another 38-40 minute game.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Last season it felt like ZZ played every minute every game. Was that because Gainey and Freddie aren’t true point guards? I was assuming that Boswell was a combo guard, but will he be a better point guard option than Gainey? Or will Chaz get playing time at the 1 ?
Or are we gonna see ZZ for another 38-40 minute game.

We need to get ZZ some rest during the games. In my opinion, his limit should be somewhere around 34 minutes/game. We willed him somewhat rested in the last 3/4 minutes of many games.

 

[StepCross]

Last season it felt like ZZ played every minute every game. Was that because Gainey and Freddie aren’t true point guards? I was assuming that Boswell was a combo guard, but will he be a better point guard option than Gainey? Or will Chaz get playing time at the 1 ?
Or are we gonna see ZZ for another 38-40 minute game.

Gainey is going to get 10 minutes per game at zz’s position, I think. For one thing, the staff thought zz was overworked last year, I believe. For another, there is a logjam at wing and there’s not going to be a ton of minutes for gainey there.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

This is such a tired discussion, you play your best players the most minutes that they can effectively handle. Zeigler was 31mpg, Knecht right there with him, go look at Sears at Bama or Davis at UNC, both up around 35mpg. Hell go look at the ogre Edey, he averaged more MPG than Zeigler, this take gets worse each time it’s mentioned.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Gainey is going to get 10 minutes per game at zz’s position, I think. For one thing, the staff thought zz was overworked last year, I believe. For another, there is a logjam at wing and there’s not going to be a ton of minutes for gainey there.

I’m curious if Lanier is actually the backup PG, people have glossed over it but he played a lot of PG at UNF. If he’s indeed a capable PG then sliding Gainey back to a full time 2 and letting him focus there might bring back some confidence in his stroke.

 

[Stoked]

I believe Lanier or Gainey will be the backup over Boswell. I do not think Boswell will play pg here, and certainly not his freshman year. I see his future as a similar roll that JJJ had. Similar body types and similar style of play. Both were combo guards coming out.

 

[TrippieRedd]

I believe Lanier or Gainey will be the backup over Boswell. I do not think Boswell will play pg here, and certainly not his freshman year. I see his future as a similar roll that JJJ had. Similar body types and similar style of play. Both were combo guards coming out.

Definitely agree. 2025, if everyone stays, imo.
PG: Transfer / Freshman
SG: Transfer / Boswell
SF: Carr / Freshman
PF: Transfer / Freshman
C: Okpara / JP / Cade / Brown

Something tells me we roll with the 11 guys we have, use the spots for next year. I think we will take 4 transfer guys and 4 freshman depending on who leaves

 

[Chaz-Vol]

This is such a tired discussion, you play your best players the most minutes that they can effectively handle. Zeigler was 31mpg, Knecht right there with him, go look at Sears at Bama or Davis at UNC, both up around 35mpg. Hell go look at the ogre Edey, he averaged more MPG than Zeigler, this take gets worse each time it’s mentioned.

I think unfortunately fans are worried because we experienced this in real time 2 years ago when he tore his ACL and there was no real backup.

Just because of the injury that concern will linger. Obviously ZZ played huge minutes last year especially at end. I do think developing someone this summer to be reliable backup to give him breathers during games is important. In the tournament he was missing a lot of FTs and shots that maybe could have been related to fatigue.

 

[omghulkhands]

I think it is what it is.

We don’t really have the roster construction to let ZZ get much of a break in important / close games.

 

[TrippieRedd]

I think unfortunately fans are worried because we experienced this in real time 2 years ago when he tore his ACL and there was no real backup.

Just because of the injury that concern will linger. Obviously ZZ played huge minutes last year especially at end. I do think developing someone this summer to be reliable backup to give him breathers during games is important. In the tournament he was missing a lot of FTs and shots that maybe could have been related to fatigue.

If Tristan Newton hobo looking ass can play 34mpg, I think ZZ is in good enough shape to play 30mpg

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I think unfortunately fans are worried because we experienced this in real time 2 years ago when he tore his ACL and there was no real backup.

Just because of the injury that concern will linger. Obviously ZZ played huge minutes last year especially at end. I do think developing someone this summer to be reliable backup to give him breathers during games is important. In the tournament he was missing a lot of FTs and shots that maybe could have been related to fatigue.

He shot poorly from the FT line most of the year, so not attributing it to that, again that’s a lazy take imo. Look at Sears and Davis, it’s common place in CBB for guys to be averaging 35+mpg and Zeigler wasn’t even doing that. I’m not saying let’s not have a backup option, I think we do in Lanier/Gainey/Boswell, I’m just saying you play your best players the most minutes they can effectively handle.

 

[Lefteye]

I vote we retire the tired "tired discussion".

Seriously, what I don't think some fans realize is playing and staying loose is a better way to prevent injury than getting 4-5 minute breaks and then cranking it back up. The staff will rest him when he needs it. But if he's good, he's better off playing 34-35 minutes imo.

 

[Chris4Vols22]

I think it is what it is.

We don’t really have the roster construction to let ZZ get much of a break in important / close games.

It's so crazy to me how UT has struggled get legit true PGs on the roster over the last ~20 years. Watson, Maze, Bone, Chandler, and Zeigler is the list unless I'm forgetting anyone. And I'm sure some would argue Maze was not a true PG.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

It's so crazy to me how UT has struggled get legit true PGs on the roster over the last ~20 years. Watson, Maze, Bone, Chandler, and Zeigler is the list unless I'm forgetting anyone. And I'm sure some would argue Maze was not a true PG.

I think a big part, especially in todays climate is that PGs (true) are going to command 30+ minutes if they are good, how many kids are willing to come here and sit behind that? Maybe if that guy is a senior you can convince a freshman too, but just seems like that’s becoming more difficult. Where as a guard/wing they can play multiple positions and there’s an avenue for PT that appears more likely.

 

[Chris4Vols22]

I think a big part, especially in todays climate is that PGs (true) are going to command 30+ minutes if they are good, how many kids are willing to come here and sit behind that? Maybe if that guy is a senior you can convince a freshman too, but just seems like that’s becoming more difficult. Where as a guard/wing they can play multiple positions and there’s an avenue for PT that appears more likely.

That's definitely a good point, but it still surprises/concerns me that we almost always have one or zero protoypical PGs. Not disagreeing with your point in the least, but I think our bloated SG/SF depth over the last ~10 seasons challenges the idea.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

That's definitely a good point, but it still surprises/concerns me that we almost always have one or zero protoypical PGs. Not disagreeing with your point in the least, but I think our bloated SG/SF depth over the last ~10 seasons challenges the idea.

???

This will be Zeigler for 4 years and before that we had Bone for 3, there was the wacky year in between that Turner hung it up but that’s 7/8 years that we’ve literally had a prototypical PG? And damn good ones at that.

 

[n_huffhines]

???

This will be Zeigler for 4 years and before that we had Bone for 3, there was the wacky year in between that Turner hung it up but that’s 7/8 years that we’ve literally had a prototypical PG? And damn good ones at that.

By virtue of his height alone, ZZ is not the prototypical PG.

ZZ brings a lot in terms of energy, defense, efficiency, etc. but we need somebody who can put 2 on the ball running offense. ZZ is not much of a scoring threat so his ability to collapse and break the D is not great. He plays 32 mpg and didn't even make two 2p baskets at just 47%. Teams want him to drive to the basket in crunch time.

I would love to have somebody like Mike Conley just once. When all else failed, he could just go to the basket and get a layup, a dish, or FT's. We need that so badly.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

By virtue of his height alone, ZZ is not the prototypical PG.

ZZ brings a lot in terms of energy, defense, efficiency, etc. but we need somebody who can put 2 on the ball running offense. ZZ is not much of a scoring threat so his ability to collapse and break the D is not great. He plays 32 mpg and didn't even make two 2p baskets at just 47%. Teams want him to drive to the basket in crunch time.

I would love to have somebody like Mike Conley just once. When all else failed, he could just go to the basket and get a layup, a dish, or FT's. We need that so badly.

He’s literally going to be on the short list for The Bob Cousy Award, given to the best PG in America, but sure, we’ll talk about how he’s not a prototypical PG. You can pick apart every “PG” in America if you’d like about what they don’t do at an elite level, Zeigler is absolutely a PG and again, will be one of the favorites to take home the award that literally states “best PG in the country”.

 

[TrippieRedd]

By virtue of his height alone, ZZ is not the prototypical PG.

ZZ brings a lot in terms of energy, defense, efficiency, etc. but we need somebody who can put 2 on the ball running offense. ZZ is not much of a scoring threat so his ability to collapse and break the D is not great. He plays 32 mpg and didn't even make two 2p baskets at just 47%. Teams want him to drive to the basket in crunch time.

I would love to have somebody like Mike Conley just once. When all else failed, he could just go to the basket and get a layup, a dish, or FT's. We need that so badly.

There’s like 4 different types of “prototypical” PGs.

He’s in one of those categories. Are you me this morning? I want your marijuana!

 

[n_huffhines]

He’s literally going to be on the short list for The Bob Cousy Award, given to the best PG in America, but sure, we’ll talk about how he’s not a prototypical PG. You can pick apart every “PG” in America if you’d like about what they don’t do at an elite level, Zeigler is absolutely a PG and again, will be one of the favorites to take home the award that literally states “best PG in the country”.

That doesn't make him a prototype.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a more balanced roster. I love ZZ playing 30 minutes. I still want somebody who can put 2 on the ball. You should want that too. Every team wants that.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

That doesn't make him a prototype.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a more balanced roster. I love ZZ playing 30 minutes. I still want somebody who can put 2 on the ball. You should want that too. Every team wants that.

What exactly do you mean by “put 2 on the ball”?

 

[n_huffhines]

What exactly do you mean by “put 2 on the ball”?

It means the D sends a double team. If you have a guy who commands the double, can process where it's coming from, and punish them for sending it, it's the greatest hack you can possibly have for good offense. There is always a good shot out there if your lead ballhandler is collapsing the D on command.

Knecht can collapse the D, he's just not great at the other 2 parts.

Zeigler is good at the other 2 parts, but he's not a scoring threat who can really get to parts 2 and 3.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

It means the D sends a double team. If you have a guy who commands the double, can process where it's coming from, and punish them for sending it, it's the greatest hack you can possibly have for good offense. There is always a good shot out there if your lead ballhandler is collapsing the D on command.

Knecht can collapse the D, he's just not great at the other 2 parts.

Zeigler is good at the other 2 parts, but he's not a scoring threat who can really get to parts 2 and 3.

And only a PG can do that was my point? Just because Zeigler doesn’t command a double team every time down doesn’t mean he’s not a PG, in fact I would say a college PG that commands a double is much more rare than a 2 guard or 3, like we saw with Knecht. You stating that does nothing to strengthen your stance that Zeigler isn’t a pro typical college PG, nobody is talking about him as a NBA player or how he’d be looked at, irrelevant.

 

[n_huffhines]

And only a PG can do that was my point? Just because Zeigler doesn’t command a double team every time down doesn’t mean he’s not a PG, in fact I would say a college PG that commands a double is much more rare than a 2 guard or 3, like we saw with Knecht. You stating that does nothing to strengthen your stance that Zeigler isn’t a pro typical college PG, nobody is talking about him as a NBA player or how he’d be looked at, irrelevant.

Nobody said ZZ wasn't a PG and nobody said the person doing this has to be a PG. Nobody is talking about his pro prospects. Holy hell, man

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Nobody said ZZ wasn't a PG and nobody said the person doing this has to be a PG. Nobody is talking about his pro prospects. Holy hell, man

Ok, “prototypical PG” is what you said, apologies…he is 100% that in college, if you want to say he can’t be because he doesn’t “put 2 on the ball”, then I think you’re referencing more of a pro PG and not a college PG was my point.