Cuonzo Martin met with Marquette Sunday afternoon

[lostsheep]

^^^ Poppa T gets it ^^^^

Agree. Well-said, Poppa-T!

 

[Tux]

With Cheek at the helm and Hart yet to prove to me that he knows what he is doing, I have no idea what they will do. I guess it all depends on what the real story is behind whether or not Martin got an offer or a rejection from Marquette. Everything on the internet is speculation from opposing camps and only Hart/Martin know. Hart’s comments from 3 or 4 weeks ago were telling ... he expects us to compete for championships and like it or not, Football drives the engine and that is where we will put the majority of our resources.

If what TOS reported is factual, it would appear that Hart holds the cards and they do need to get CCM higher than 11th. Top 5 seems reasonable ($1.8M-$1.9M), depending on the incentives on top. In order for us to successfully recruit, I think they need to give him an extension beyond 2015-2016. You can’t recruit or operate with a 2 year contract, which is what he has remaining.

Not that my opinion matters, but if it were me, I would look at:
(1). A 2-3 year extension or renegotiate the contract with a 4-5 year term;

(2.) Give him a decent base, but not too high;

(3.) Back-end load his salary with some significant bonus incentives, i.e, 20+ wins; Home attendance; graduated bonus based on top 3 in SEC standing; graduated bonus for SEC tourney (1st/2nd); graduated bonus NCAA tourney and results; if no NCAA invite, then a bonus if you play in NIT finals; player graduation rate; etc. In other words, pay for performance. If he is successful, then he gets a big payday commensurate with the top coaches in the SEC/Country; and

(4.) Minimize the buyout should either party decide to part with the other.

Martin is an excellent mentor and leader to the young men in his charge, but if that is where his passion lies then he can go work at a Boys Club or a High School. This is big boy college sports and he is the CEO of UT Men's BBall. He needs to learn how to do more than mentor young men. He is the face of the program and needs to market his team and process (Look at the things Butch Jones is doing). If you are not going to actively engage the fans, students, alumni, big boosters, HS Coaches, etc. and get them on your side and buy into your process, then your only option is to win soon, often and big.

Coach Jones is providing a vision and buying himself some collateral for these rebuilding years and selling it. Martin needs to do the same, if he wants to succeed as a coach at a big school in a big conference.

Time will tell.

I'm an alum, so I'm here to stay, no matter who the coach is.
Go VOLS !!!
We gonna whip dey azz.

Would you not say winning 19 games, 20 games, and 24 games and a trip to the Sweet Sixteen as being a successful big boy coach? If not, I would love to hear your definition of a big boy coach. Coach Jones has been able to talk the talk. Martin has been able to walk the walk without all of the talk.

 

[Tux]

I would much rather have a basketball coach who wins on the court and is quiet, than a PR minded coach who does not win games.

 

[Poppa T]

Would you not say winning 19 games, 20 games, and 24 games and a trip to the Sweet Sixteen as being a successful big boy coach? If not, I would love to hear your definition of a big boy coach. Coach Jones has been able to talk the talk. Martin has been able to walk the walk without all of the talk.

I think it is part of the equation. Interpersonal communications and building relationships outside of the confines of the members of your team, is a skill that I want a Head coach to have and/or work on continuously improving. That's just me.

 

[Poppa T]

I would much rather have a basketball coach who wins on the court and is quiet, than a PR minded coach who does not win games.

Winning on a consistent basis will solve a coach's shortcoming most of the time (there are exceptions).

I believe I said in my OP ...
"If you are not going to actively engage the fans, students, alumni, big boosters, HS Coaches, etc. and get them on your side and buy into your process, then your only option is to win soon, often and big."

I was not advocating that he become P.T. Barnum, nor was I saying that he could not succeed.

 

[Tux]

Thinks about this…….

Butch Jones utilizes great public relation skills consistently but has not been able to turn out a winning record, but many fans put him up on a pedestal and almost worship him.

On the other hand, Cuonzo Martin does not utilize great public relations skills, but his teams have won 19, 20, and 24 games in his three season, including a trip the Sweet sixteen and yet many of our fans want him fired.

Anyone else see the irony in this?

 

[lostsheep]

Thinks about this…….

Butch Jones utilizes great public relation skills consistently but has not been able to turn out a winning record, but many fans put him up on a pedestal and almost worship him.

On the other hand, Cuonzo Martin does not utilize great public relations skills, but his teams have won 19, 20, and 24 games in his three season, including a trip the Sweet sixteen and yet many of our fans want him fired.

Anyone else see the irony in this?

I suspect it's because Jones has killed it recruiting-wise, and therefore there's hope for the future.

CCM, on the other hand, not so much. If we had a stud recruiting class following up this Sweet 16 run...I believe you'd see a lot more start giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[OrangeDonkey]

Tux, your attitude towards football is the exact same as the attitudes of the fans that you're calling out in your posts.

It doesn't have to be one way or the other. A mix of both good PR, Recruiting, and on field/court results will result in a passionate fan base that backs the coach and team through adversity.

 

[Poppa T]

Thinks about this…….

Butch Jones utilizes great public relation skills consistently but has not been able to turn out a winning record, but many fans put him up on a pedestal and almost worship him.

On the other hand, Cuonzo Martin does not utilize great public relations skills, but his teams have won 19, 20, and 24 games in his three season, including a trip the Sweet sixteen and yet many of our fans want him fired.

Anyone else see the irony in this?

I'm not sure how ironic it is, but I understand your point.

From my perspective, it says that if you are in a public leadership position, don't underestimate the importance of positive public relations and effective communications with your stakeholders (at all levels).

Jones has only been here 1 season, so it does not seem to be a good comparison. But he took the approach that he can't do it alone and has actively engaged all levels of the Volunteer Family from the beginning. I suspect we will see what it bought him at the end of Year 3.

Martin has been here 3 seasons. He has not been visible or engaging to those of us who support the University and don't live in Knoxville or the State. And he sealed himself off from other members of the extended Volunteer Family. I think that hurt him.

I hope Martin is successful at Tennessee. He has the foundational skills and resources to be successful. I hope he has learned something and continues to develop his skills.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Really sounds to me like Hart & Martin just aren't happy. Hart doesn't feel like Martin's the guy, and not having hired him probably has something to do with that. Martin doesn't sound like he wants to really be here, and that's likely because of how Hart feels and the criticism, BBB etc. Sounds like he's gonna get a raise and extension to make things on the surface look all peachy, but a very low buyout for both sides because neither sees this lasting long term.

Where things become dicey IMO is what happens this year? Is Martin gonna put forth his best effort recruiting for a team he likely won't even coach in a couple years? If not, that puts the program in a tight spot. What if Stokes goes pro and we miss on Rhett, we go 16-14 and don't even make the NIT? Will anyone come calling or are we in a worse spot to make a move than we are currently?

There's just a lot of odd twists and turns seemingly taking place, and I'm not really sure what to think of it. As someone else stated earlier, maybe this happens more often than I realize, but I just don't like how it looks.

Jmo

 

[Poppa T]

Tux, your attitude towards football is the exact same as the attitudes of the fans that you're calling out in your posts.

It doesn't have to be one way or the other. A mix of both good PR, Recruiting, and on field/court results will result in a passionate fan base that backs the coach and team through adversity.

Well said !!

 

[37L1]

Not to mention Martin inherited a very successful program from CBP.

What did Jones inherit from Dooley, a friggin' mess.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Not to mention Martin inherited a very successful program from CBP.

What did Jones inherit from Dooley, a friggin' mess.

Martin inherited a mess as well, the program had been good but so had the football program previously. There's a reason the basketball program landed Cuonzo Martin.

 

[37L1]

Martin inherited a mess as well, the program had been good but so had the football program previously. There's a reason the basketball program landed Cuonzo Martin.

Really a mess? Pearl's last season was his worst at 19-15 a winning season. Dooley? Three seasons, with three losing records.

 

[Lefteye]

Really a mess? Pearl's last season was his worst at 19-15 a winning season. Dooley? Three seasons, with three losing records.

Unless you like endless debates, I'd save your breath on this one. I do agree with you though. The only true "mess" the basketball team inherited was the fact that the AD was never going to do what is necessary($$$) to hire a more notable and experienced HC.

 

[Poppa T]

Martin inherited a mess as well, the program had been good but so had the football program previously. There's a reason the basketball program landed Cuonzo Martin.

Yep, mess is an understatement. Residuals from Kiffin had us in trouble and then Pearl. I think a contribution to our problem related to the BBall hiring can also be attributed to our leadership at the time (Cheek/Hamilton) and how the UT Admin mishandled the Pearl investigation, the subsequent timing of the firing and the whole money issue (or lack thereof). A goat rodeo of epic proportion.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Really sounds to me like Hart & Martin just aren't happy. Hart doesn't feel like Martin's the guy, and not having hired him probably has something to do with that. Martin doesn't sound like he wants to really be here, and that's likely because of how Hart feels and the criticism, BBB etc. Sounds like he's gonna get a raise and extension to make things on the surface look all peachy, but a very low buyout for both sides because neither sees this lasting long term.

Where things become dicey IMO is what happens this year? Is Martin gonna put forth his best effort recruiting for a team he likely won't even coach in a couple years? If not, that puts the program in a tight spot. What if Stokes goes pro and we miss on Rhett, we go 16-14 and don't even make the NIT? Will anyone come calling or are we in a worse spot to make a move than we are currently?

There's just a lot of odd twists and turns seemingly taking place, and I'm not really sure what to think of it. As someone else stated earlier, maybe this happens more often than I realize, but I just don't like how it looks.

Jmo

That's why I say next really needs to be a good year for TN basketball, for both Martin and Hart. If we have a sub-par, NIT year. then it's going to get bad for both of them.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Thinks about this…….

Butch Jones utilizes great public relation skills consistently but has not been able to turn out a winning record, but many fans put him up on a pedestal and almost worship him.

On the other hand, Cuonzo Martin does not utilize great public relations skills, but his teams have won 19, 20, and 24 games in his three season, including a trip the Sweet sixteen and yet many of our fans want him fired.

Anyone else see the irony in this?

I believe after next season we're going to see how committed people are to Jones. Not to get too gloom and doom but we could be staring at another 5-7, because the schedule is rather brutal again. There were already some cracking last year but the SC win gave most hope. We miss a bowl again and his support won't be nearly as strong, no matter how unfair it is.

 

[InVOLuntary]

If the "no offer from Marquette" thing is true, then this just really puts everything into a very uncomfortable position.

That would mean you have a coach who basically didn't want to be here and really wanted out, coming back to a place that essentially called his bluff but apparently didn't have much in the way of a contingency plan.

I get this likely happens a lot, but maybe because I'm a Vol fan this just seems too public. The best we can hope for now is UT has a good year next season and I guess most will be forgotten. But man if we are bad next year.....you know this whole mess will float right back to the top.

Spot on analysis. I was told some time ago he's not happy here. Does anyone do their best in their job when they're not happy in it?

 

[Tux]

Tux, your attitude towards football is the exact same as the attitudes of the fans that you're calling out in your posts.

It doesn't have to be one way or the other. A mix of both good PR, Recruiting, and on field/court results will result in a passionate fan base that backs the coach and team through adversity.

What attitude is that?

I want to see the team successful in football and basketball.

I just find it funny and ironic that our fans see things so backwards.

I was told a long time ago by someone who I respect, that feel goodism accomplishes little and not to get excited by it because the end result is not in hand. Results are what matter.

 

[Press]

What attitude is that?

I want to see the team successful in football and basketball.

I just find it funny and ironic that our fans see things so backwards.

I was told a long time ago by someone who I respect, that feel goodism accomplishes little and not to get excited by it because the end result is not in hand. Results are what matter.

Results are what matters but you can't thumb your nose at the fans either and act like you don't need them anyway.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Really a mess? Pearl's last season was his worst at 19-15 a winning season. Dooley? Three seasons, with three losing records.

You have to take into account what was surrounding the program and hanging over it's head, if you're gonna simply look at W's & L's there's no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[37L1]

You have to take into account what was surrounding the program and hanging over it's head, if you're gonna simply look at W's & L's there's no point in continuing this discussion.

How about taking into account who each coach had to work with for players that they inherited?

Martin inherited Maymon, McRae, Tatum, Hall, Golden, Woolridge, and others. Lost to Austin Peay during the season and then Middle Tennessee State at the NIT. You don't lose to those Tennessee teams, you just don't. 19-15, same record as Pearl's worst season, his last.

What exactly was hanging over Jones' head, a pinata? One year of Kiffin and the NCAA. Three rotten years with Dooley, 4 years of disruption and three years of mediocre recruitment. He had/has the tougher ship to right.

Granted neither one inherited an ideal situation but I think Jones got the worst of it for the sport which matters most in collegiate athletics and therefore has the higher profile/expectations.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Like I mentioned, a marriage where both parties dont see a future. Purdue is waiting. Martin
wants it.

A big reason why some of us that look objectively and without emotion or bull**** didnt see a future and were ready to move on. Everything isn't just about right now. Some of you have no idea about those things yet. If you did, you wouldnt call people idiots when they bring it up.

 

[nunshalpass]

Like I mentioned, a marriage where both parties dont see a future. Purdue is waiting. Martin
wants it.

A big reason why some of us that look objectively and without emotion or bull**** didnt see a future and were ready to move on. Everything isn't just about right now. Some of you have no idea about those things yet. If you did, you wouldnt call people idiots when they bring it up.

Well if you call "objectively" going on pure speculation of things that might have a possibility of happening...