Culture eats strategy for breakfast

#52
#52
MWAVolfan said:
Oh wow, you found 3 whole players out of the entire team to use in your example?
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There are many more also, how about you using some that are actually playing for your example??? This team will get better, I see improvement at the Wr,Qb and Rb position. The O-Line is holding us back some, but they will get better as the year goes. The defense did what they were supposed to today. GBO!!!!
 
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#53
#53
jonnon111 said:
What coach would you have hired? Remember base it off of what you knew in 2009.
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I don't really remember since Hamilton did not really interview anyone other than Kiffin. But I don't think I would have hired someone who was fired by Al Davis for incompetence.
 
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#54
#54
KBVol said:
How about Richmond, Kongbo, Taylor, Phillips, Abernathy?

There’s truth in both. There are a handful of players to be salvaged from the Jones era, but many more who need to be moved on from. Culture must be completely overhauled and re-made.
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Too many of Butchie's big stars sensed that they didn't need to give but about 75% effort to be a starter or see substantial playing time. Not all of them, mind you. But truth be known, Barnett probably excelled because he was determined to prove he was more than his 3 star rank. All you have to do is watch how Aub/LSU play the game, we have a long haul ahead to get back to that kind of FB culture. Those players played hard every single down. No letup. They don't make a good play and then relax a play and let a UTEP Miner truck them the next. It's going to be a mighty struggle to squeeze 6 W's out this. Some of these guys need to move on to prevent them having a negative effect on the freshmen and incoming 2019 class next year.
 
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#55
#55
BigOrangeTrain said:
The UT AD screwed up the Patterson hire. Do I really need to go any further? Also, based off of what in 2009? Whats the point?
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That picking the next winning coach is easier in hindsight.

If I recall the big coaching names when we fired Fulmer were Leach, Brian Kelly, and Brewster from Minnesota.

Kiffin gave just an entertaining a press conference as Leach and had at least as good an offense.

Brian Kely hasn't exactly turned ND into world beaters in his time there.

I don't even know what Brewster is doing at the moment, but he's not winning championships either.

Dooley was the result of Kiffin flipping us the bird at the last minute. Terrible hire in a terrible situation.

Here 2012 is where, in hindsight, we goofed. We chose CBJ over Kirby Smart. But let's look at that comparison for a minute. Kirby was an untested Saban assistant. He had no head coaching experience. sound familiar?

A few years later Smart went to a loaded UGA team winning 8-10 games a year and lost to CBJ coached UT team at home and barely made a bowl in his first year. He recruited like crazy and has UGA in a good spot. . . Now. But not in year one. Mood thing UGA fans had "thier heads buried in the sand" and weren't calling for his head and he REGRESSED in year 1. Meanwhile Jeremy Pruit took over the worst team in UT history is 2-1 with a loss to a top 15 team with a Heisman contending QB and people are upset?
 
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#56
#56
BigOrangeTrain said:
The UT AD screwed up the Patterson hire. Do I really need to go any further? Also, based off of what in 2009? Whats the point?
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It’s the same regurgitated mess from these people man... apparently with all of the tradition, money and resources that UT has they never have any options for hiring coaches!!! People said that back in 09 and people say it now... truth is several times we could have ponied up the money that this program should be ponying up considering the money this fan base pours into it and we could have gotten some decent options. Instead they bargain bin shop because it has been proven that this fan base will pour money into the program regardless of the product put on the field... it’s disgusting.
 
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#58
#58
Alex10 said:
Because that’s why our program is in the dumpster to begin with? If there weren’t a lot of people willing to take this approach there wouldn’t have been butts in the seats for years now and UT admin would have been forced to actually try and put together a decent product. But they don’t have to spend money to make money because so many people don’t demand anything for their money.
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2 problems with this:
1. The optimistic people didnt call for Fulmers head.
2. You're suggesting we become an unsupportive fanbase?
 
#59
#59
jonnon111 said:
That picking the next winning coach is easier in hindsight.
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I get what your saying to an extent, but when you go and hire guys with the resumes of Dooley and butch what do you really expect? This fan base deserves so much better than these half hearted, cheap coaching searches... like I’ve been saying Pruitt deserves his chance now that he is here but there isn’t much defending the hiring process of the UT admin over the past decade.
 
#60
#60
Other_Guy said:
2 problems with this:
1. The optimistic people didnt call for Fulmers head.
2. You're suggesting we become an unsupportive fanbase?
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As far as firing fulmer goes, I’m actually from Winchester and have met the man and like the guy, having said that it was time for him to go. The mistake wasn’t firing fulmer, the mistake was and continues to be the botched hires by the UT admin since he left... I see this argument about fulmer brought up a lot and I’m really not sure what’s so hard to see here.... I mean look no further than GA, their situation paralleled ours quite a bit... they fired a guy who won them around 9 or 10 games a year most years. Had they botched the next hire there would have been a huge contingent of people screaming at the ones that were not happy with Richt, including the media. They didn’t botch the hire though and now they are an elite team and you will not hear a single Georgia fan clamoring that they should not have fired Richt. Is this really a hard concept for some people to understand?
 
#61
#61
VolInNW said:
There are two Tennessee teams out there:

1. The Jones Boys. These are upperclassmen recruited by Jones and who bought into the slapshod approach he took to player development and coaching. No effort needed. Just get by and live on catchphrases and next year. These guys are unreachable at this point by and large. Their culture is set

2. The New Guys. These are Freshmen and transfers brought in by Pruitt. They are ready to play but lack experience and/or familiarity with the system and team. They are also susceptible to adopting Team #1s habits and attitudes.

Pruitt would like to clear out #1 but he’d be left with 30-40 players. Not happening. We are going to have to get through the washing of the Jones culture. It’s gonna take time.

This year is going to be very very long.
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BULL HOCKEY: JIMMIES AND JOES EAT CULTURE AND STRATEGY FOR BREAKFAST, LUNCH AND DINNER! Our talent is no where near the top 5 teams in the Conference.

#51 Needs an attitude adjustment from his teammates. If they don’t have the guts to do it, then we can count on another losing season...#73 will have a long day aginast #92 of Gators.
 
#62
#62
Alex10 said:
As far as firing fulmer goes, I’m actually from Winchester and have met the man and like the guy, having said that it was time for him to go. The mistake wasn’t firing fulmer, the mistake was and continues to be the botched hires by the UT admin since he left... I see this argument about fulmer brought up a lot and I’m really not sure what’s so hard to see here.... I mean look no further than GA, their situation paralleled ours quite a bit... they fired a guy who won them around 9 or 10 games a year most years. Had they botched the next hire there would have been a huge contingent of people screaming at the ones that were not happy with Richt, including the media. They didn’t botch the hire though and now they are an elite team and you will not hear a single Georgia fan clamoring that they should not have fired Richt. Is this really a hard concept for some people to understand?
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2 problems with this post as well:
1. They hired a guy who had never been a HC. That is 100x out of 100x a compleye gamble.
2. As a Georgia fan told me, had Smart not been in the playoffs last year after what Richt left behind for him, the writing would have been on the wall. This year is so much more telling about whether they made the right decision. So its a bad comparison.
I agree that Fulmer was done in a sense and the hire was botched because they didn't have a real plan. My only point was, you get greedy and unsatisfied you run the risk of losing what good you had. You say put down the orange glasses being satisfied with mediocracy, and I say put down the orange glasses and realize the UT football program IS a mediocre football program. They have been irrelevent for almost 20 years and lately has been a big joke in CFB. Coaches arent clamoring to come here. The AD was a joke. You act like we should have stopped being a supportive fanbase, yet our fanbase is the only reason theres still a sliver of hope in returning to glory.
 
#63
#63
Other_Guy said:
2 problems with this post as well:
1. They hired a guy who had never been a HC. That is 100x out of 100x a compleye gamble.
2. As a Georgia fan told me, had Smart not been in the playoffs last year after what Richt left behind for him, the writing would have been on the wall. This year is so much more telling about whether they made the right decision. So its a bad comparison.
I agree that Fulmer was done in a sense and the hire was botched because they didn't have a real plan. My only point was, you get greedy and unsatisfied you run the risk of losing what good you had. You say put down the orange glasses being satisfied with mediocracy, and I say put down the orange glasses and realize the UT football program IS a mediocre football program. They have been irrelevent for almost 20 years and lately has been a big joke in CFB. Coaches arent clamoring to come here. The AD was a joke. You act like we should have stopped being a supportive fanbase, yet our fanbase is the only reason theres still a sliver of hope in returning to glory.
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There is where we differ I suppose, you outright say you are content with mediocrity, that’s not what I’m content with, not that it matters either way. Also we aren’t even in the same universe as mediocrity anymore, we are a dang joke, I love this program but it is what it is right now.
 
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#64
#64
Alex10 said:
I hope I’m wrong big time but I don’t see anything through these first 3 games that makes me believe we will even be competitive with any sec teams this year, maybe vandy but not feeling to great about that either really.
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Vandy is a much better team than we are. We might be better than Arky, but we will be lucky to get an SEC win this year.
 
#65
#65
Alex10 said:
There is where we differ I suppose, you outright say you are content with mediocrity, that’s not what I’m content with, not that it matters either way. Also we aren’t even in the same universe as mediocrity anymore, we are a dang joke, I love this program but it is what it is right now.
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I did not say at all that Im content with it. Im saying some of you still believe this program is still this prestigous powerhouse on the same level as all of these top schools, and other fans and media laugh at our delusion. The team doesnt just happen to be going thru this sucky trend. Some, not saying you bc I havent read all your posts, think that pretty much any coach should be able to walk into even a mess and win quickly because "we're Tennessee" and then do it every year.
 
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#67
#67
jonnon111 said:
That picking the next winning coach is easier in hindsight.

If I recall the big coaching names when we fired Fulmer were Leach, Brian Kelly, and Brewster from Minnesota.

Kiffin gave just an entertaining a press conference as Leach and had at least as good an offense.

Brian Kely hasn't exactly turned ND into world beaters in his time there.

I don't even know what Brewster is doing at the moment, but he's not winning championships either.

Dooley was the result of Kiffin flipping us the bird at the last minute. Terrible hire in a terrible situation.

Here 2012 is where, in hindsight, we goofed. We chose CBJ over Kirby Smart. But let's look at that comparison for a minute. Kirby was an untested Saban assistant. He had no head coaching experience. sound familiar?

A few years later Smart went to a loaded UGA team winning 8-10 games a year and lost to CBJ coached UT team at home and barely made a bowl in his first year. He recruited like crazy and has UGA in a good spot. . . Now. But not in year one. Mood thing UGA fans had "thier heads buried in the sand" and weren't calling for his head and he REGRESSED in year 1. Meanwhile Jeremy Pruit took over the worst team in UT history is 2-1 with a loss to a top 15 team with a Heisman contending QB and people are upset?
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So basically you are just reinforcing my point. Look at the names you mentioned. Utterly pathetic. Like I said Patterson would have came here. He was already a proven, high quality HC. There was no mystery with Patterson. He was a homerun hire. Hamilton screwed it up. So you mesn to tell me that Hamilton could have hired a great, proven winner but the best options after that were Kiffin, Leach, Brewster or Kelly? Lol. Now you see the problem?

Kiffin got the job because he was young, energetic and thats it. He didnt have the qualifications or credentials to coach at TN in 2009.
 
#68
#68
Tis the nature of changing management...those who don't get on board with the new management can do damage just by feeding negativity and discontent. They poison the culture - you have to get rid if them. Unfortunately it usually takes at least a season to weed them out.
 
#69
#69
biggestvols said:
Same thing everyone said when Jones took over for Dooley. Same thing everyone said when Kiffin took over for Fulmer. Same ole’ song and dance. Truth is we are a horrible team now. I hope Pruit can turn us around. We’ll see.
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We're much wiser now. Sadly, we had to live through a very bad slide of hand act by a two bit rec coach to learn.
 
#70
#70
Other_Guy said:
I did not say at all that Im content with it. Im saying some of you still believe this program is still this prestigous powerhouse on the same level as all of these top schools, and other fans and media laugh at our delusion. The team doesnt just happen to be going thru this sucky trend. Some, not saying you bc I havent read all your posts, think that pretty much any coach should be able to walk into even a mess and win quickly because "we're Tennessee" and then do it every year.
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Prestigious powerhouse? Bro I’m just tired of being a freaking joke. I’m about at the point where I will start taking participation trophies... no one here is clamoring for that and that is not why we are being made fun of... despite what some try to perpetuate we are not made fun of because of our fanbase ( clearly one of the best and most loyal in the country.) we are made fun of because we are an absolute joke of a team for the resources we have. Quit trying to put it on the fans. It is 100 percent not the fans, it is this criminal administration we have.
 
#71
#71
Alex10 said:
It’s the same regurgitated mess from these people man... apparently with all of the tradition, money and resources that UT has they never have any options for hiring coaches!!! People said that back in 09 and people say it now... truth is several times we could have ponied up the money that this program should be ponying up considering the money this fan base pours into it and we could have gotten some decent options. Instead they bargain bin shop because it has been proven that this fan base will pour money into the program regardless of the product put on the field... it’s disgusting.
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Completely agree with all of this. I really dont understand how every TN Vol fan cannot see this.
 
#72
#72
VolInNW said:
The difference I see is that the post Fulmer and Dooley teams did not have this ingrained lazy culture I see here. Fulmer stopped coaching and developing but left a team that was coachable for Kiffin. Kiffin wasn’t here long enough to develop a culture. Dooley left a team with a decent work ethic just very little key talent due to odd recruiting patterns.

Jones infected the program with PT Barnumitis. Just smile and say some quip and move on. Same way his upperclassmen by and large approach the game. Hit your guy once and move on. If he falls down or stops, great. If not, oh well.

Pruitt may or may not be able to recruit and coach past this. Time will tell. This year will be painful.
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Kiffin ran off tons and then told Bryce Petty and Tajh Boyd to pound sand. That alone set Clemson in its current trajectory. Kiffin is a friggin idiot.
 
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