Cowherd....

#252
#252
Behr said:
To be fair, Hillbilly hasn't been all that hard on Butch, just those that support him.
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I did go back and look at some of my posts from 2012-2014. Maybe I was kind of harsh although I really didn't post much on the subject for his first few seasons and I felt like I was being a softie because I know what I would've posted. He can have an awesome season and shut his critics up.
 
#255
#255
Behr said:
Stop blaming injuries and Hurd. Butch has had 30 years to win. I ain't settling for mediocrity like you bunch of Butch worshippers. If he don't win this week, fahr his ass an go after Kiffen.
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Extra point for spelling Kiffin right...damn!
 
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#258
#258
BeecherVol said:
Thats a bit of exaggeration.
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Perhaps, but too few actually think about changes in respect to the response time. For example, the greatest QB of all time is going to lead the team to the NC and destroys his knee on a fluke play the first game. How long does it take to get him back in business to win the NC? The next season? Response time basically a year.

Hire a new position coach in the off season. He doesn't work out, but it's not apparent until play begins. Hard to make radical changes to that kind of problem during the playing season, so you probably do the best until football season is over. Response time basically a year - think Clawson, Lawson, Sunseri, etc.

Most people in the workforce have evaluations that cover many different decisions and outcomes within a year's span - plenty of opportunity to evaluate whether someone makes good decisions and is improving on the poorer ones.

Now decide whether Shoop was a good or bad choice; we know the first year wasn't good, but based on history we expect him to be great (remember all the rah rah when he was hired). So how can you decide if Jones made a good or bad choice when are yet to figure out if Shoop is going to be what we all thought he was. You know Shoop helped Vandy defeat Tennessee twice - should have performed miracles here.

Most of us make decisions and see an outcome quickly, but some people like HCs make decisions that take a football cycle to implement, analyze, and correct. You may go through six cycles in minutes, but for a HC that is generally six years. There are times when a HC gets in front of the camera completely intoxicated or get's on a motorcycle with someone not his wife and ...; those are pretty immediate indicators. Funny thing is some here would welcome the motorcycle coach even after the Title XI debacle.
 
#259
#259
My point was that a school that expects to win championships is going to have to win in the SEC. It's the means to the end. CBJ will likely go into Year 6 with a sub .500 record. How patient will UT be if he hasn't won a division championship and is still below .500 in the SEC after six years? Not very, IMO.

I'm not saying that I think CBJ will be fired. I'm saying the opposite: CBJ has recruited the talent to win the SECE this year or definitely next. Win the SEC games he needs to win to achieve that goal, he gets the raise and extension he wants and the hot seat talk gets doused.
 
#260
#260
Behr said:
Good. Hope Bama runs through coaches like Drano.
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They did when the Bear retired.

There were 6 different coaches over a span of 24 years between the Bear and Saban. Alabama won 1, yes only 1, national championship during that time and were not ranked 14 out of those 24 years after being ranked 21 out of 24 of the preceding years, all but 2 of those in the top 10.

The changing of the guard went like this:

1. First coach lasted 4 years
2. Second coach lasted 3 years
3. Third coach, Stallings, lasted 7 years; he did well but left the team in a mess with infractions
4. Fourth coach lasted 4 years
5. Fifth coach lasted 2 years
6. Sixth coach lasted 4 years
 
#261
#261
AM64 said:
Perhaps, but too few actually think about changes in respect to the response time. For example, the greatest QB of all time is going to lead the team to the NC and destroys his knee on a fluke play the first game. How long does it take to get him back in business to win the NC? The next season? Response time basically a year.

Hire a new position coach in the off season. He doesn't work out, but it's not apparent until play begins. Hard to make radical changes to that kind of problem during the playing season, so you probably do the best until football season is over. Response time basically a year - think Clawson, Lawson, Sunseri, etc.

Most people in the workforce have evaluations that cover many different decisions and outcomes within a year's span - plenty of opportunity to evaluate whether someone makes good decisions and is improving on the poorer ones.

Now decide whether Shoop was a good or bad choice; we know the first year wasn't good, but based on history we expect him to be great (remember all the rah rah when he was hired). So how can you decide if Jones made a good or bad choice when are yet to figure out if Shoop is going to be what we all thought he was. You know Shoop helped Vandy defeat Tennessee twice - should have performed miracles here.

Most of us make decisions and see an outcome quickly, but some people like HCs make decisions that take a football cycle to implement, analyze, and correct. You may go through six cycles in minutes, but for a HC that is generally six years. There are times when a HC gets in front of the camera completely intoxicated or get's on a motorcycle with someone not his wife and ...; those are pretty immediate indicators. Funny thing is some here would welcome the motorcycle coach even after the Title XI debacle.
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Don't really disagree with that, but where is the line?

Having a bad season or a "disappointing" ending to one you fire a few coaches and hit the reset button. At what point should the reset button not work? Or questions arise where you should have made changes earlier than you did and you now get a relief for it because you finally did.

Id buy it a little more if it was 2015 or 45 mins ago.
 
#263
#263
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Majors is easy so I'll start with him. Majors was a UTK football legend who'd just won a national championship and came home to bail us out after Bill Battle let the roster go to poop.
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So Majors gets a pass because the coach before him left a mess?

So if we replace Jones with a UTK legend and that legend still hasn't won a championship in 4 years but has the same record as Jones - you keeping him?
 
#269
#269
BeecherVol said:
Don't really disagree with that, but where is the line?

Having a bad season or a "disappointing" ending to one you fire a few coaches and hit the reset button. At what point should the reset button not work? Or questions arise where you should have made changes earlier than you did and you now get a relief for it because you finally did.

Id buy it a little more if it was 2015 or 45 mins ago.
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Good question; it's taken a few more years than Butch has been here for some other prominent coaches to prove their worth.

In the end let's hope Currie knows what he's doing in that respect because we know what a bad AD can do. Makes you doubt "guidance" from big moneyed boosters who would buy a football team like the Browns, too.

If I were betting, I'd bet GA and probably LSU made recent mistakes in betting on ponies riding the coaching carousel.
 
#270
#270
volfan102455 said:
They did when the Bear retired.

There were 6 different coaches over a span of 24 years between the Bear and Saban. Alabama won 1, yes only 1, national championship during that time and were not ranked 14 out of those 24 years after being ranked 21 out of 24 of the preceding years, all but 2 of those in the top 10.

The changing of the guard went like this:

1. First coach lasted 4 years
2. Second coach lasted 3 years
3. Third coach, Stallings, lasted 7 years; he did well but left the team in a mess with infractions
4. Fourth coach lasted 4 years
5. Fifth coach lasted 2 years
6. Sixth coach lasted 4 years
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dubose, shula, franchione (forget the actual order), and price...where does price fit in there? lol.
 
#271
#271
jakez4ut said:
dubose, shula, franchione (forget the actual order), and price...where does price fit in there? lol.
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Ray Perkins, Bill Curry, Gene Stallings, Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione, Mike Shula / Joe Kines for one game.

Don't see no Price??
 
#273
#273
volfan102455 said:
Ray Perkins, Bill Curry, Gene Stallings, Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione, Mike Shula / Joe Kines for one game.

Don't see no Price??
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And then there was that dude for zero games, guy who got caught with a couple of hookers ordering 4 billion dollars worth of room service while he slept, guy who got fired before the first game could get there. Was coach like 2 weeks during fall camp, period.

Was that Price?
 
#274
#274
Mike Price, fired in 2003 before coaching a game at Alabama. He was between Franchione and Shula. What a mess!
 
#275
#275
VFL-82-JP said:
And then there was that dude for zero games, guy who got caught with a couple of hookers ordering 4 billion dollars worth of room service while he slept, guy who got fired before the first game could get there. Was coach like 2 weeks during fall camp, period.

Was that Price?
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Well it wasn't 4 billion but that was him.
 
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