Couple of crazy rumors floating around...

[patrick]

More plausible to me that Crowder didn't handle being coached hard or beat out by a younger player, handled it immaturely. I have seen the O line appear to intentionally avoid contact several plays a game, they do not strike me as being extremely tough. CBJ probably told him some things he didn't like and now has a grudge. I mean all we are doing is speculating right? If it was just CBJ getting rough with and not the gut punch like many here suggest, I hope as the caretaker of Vol football, he removes Crowder immediately

A little off the subject but I do not believe that almost a full recruiting class of Jones own recruits have left the program because they were "coached hard" (or over playing time). It is one thing to be "coached hard" - its a whole other thing to be berated and belittled by your coach. An arss chewing is one thing but there is line that coaches should not cross. Local media has alluded to this being at least an issue in some of the departures.

 

[patrick]

My train of thought is similar. Makes sense. That's why I believe both sides are quiet. MAYBE MC didn't handle the situation well and CBJ wont come out looking pretty either.

indeed - black eye for both perhaps

 

[OrangeWayOfLife]

An entire recruiting class left? How did I miss that?

 

[BeecherVol]

It is a sad fact that many here can't see the forest for the trees. They are playing better but nowhere near good enough. Regardless of our opinions, Jones will be HC next year.

Hypothetically though, lets say we are in the same boat we were in when Dooley was fired.

Jones prospects will jump ship and his recruits if they are somehow retained will have to be resold on a new coach and system that may or may not make the best use of their talents. The net effect is a complete reset of the program to "Year 0" or maybe even -1 LOL to use the local parlance. UT would have increased its reputation as the school where coaches go to wreck their career making it very difficult of hire anyone except on speculation of an up and comer. Not to mention the difficulties arising from going even deeper in the red financially. Kelly and Patterson are a pipe dream. They don't need the hassle of a UT type situation.

Who "wrecked" their career here other than Jones?
The best coaches see talent and whether its being coached well or not. They are the best for a reason.

 

[patrick]

An entire recruiting class left? How did I miss that?

I said almost a full class - 18 or 19 transfers at last count I think.

 

[BigZiti09]

Or he did like most journalist and wrote in grammatically correct English. What he should've done to appease you is put 1/2 so everyone knows there's multiple tweets coming. Look at Hyamm's tweets, they're like 6 tweets long to make a point. But he denotes 1/6, 2/6 etc

Has nothing to do with appeasing me. He should have done a better job with those tweets.

 

[gonotch]

He could have made it fit or he could have done a better job of splitting it up to avoid misinterpretation.

I'm shocked that you guys are mad about leaving the second tweet out initially. Look up the word validate....it means confirm. So the dad basically said no comment I don't want to confirm Internet message board rumors...meaning if he were to comment.....it would confirm the rumors.....how does this make things better? Hell it sounds worse if you ask me.

 

[G8R8U2]

It's a bunch of butt hurt immature malcontents who believe Seth Stokes when he has offered no evidence of his validation. Stokes is butt hurt too, and has an agenda to discredit and get rid of Butch immediately.

If that's what Stokes is doing, it sure is one awfully bold gamble; if his source is completely wrong or untrustworthy his career will be the least of his worries... guy will have to wear disguises and leave town under the cover of darkness.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

So you couldn't just go with "oh you did say that, my bad".

Dobbs also never had to go out of his way with positives either.
We respect many of these players character, not just talent.
Gilliam is my favorite character VFL and he doesn't just answer questions. He goes out of his way to this day to discuss what a good (character) guy Jones is.
I just don't think he would bother going that far if he thought Jones was the out of control monster some are trying to make him. Gilliam also put losses to UF and OK on coaching. He is honest.
That is my point and not sure how it is confusing?

And my initial point was that some players are ridden harder than others regardless of work ethic and don't appreciate it/respond well to it. Other player's views of Butch doesn't diminish how the others may feel. The ones being ridden less or treated favorably of course I would expect good things out of them. Gilliam was a WO who never played then Butch awarded him a starting job, what would you expect his feelings to be?

 

[GAVol]

A little off the subject but I do not believe that almost a full recruiting class of Jones own recruits have left the program because they were "coached hard" (or over playing time). It is one thing to be "coached hard" - its a whole other thing to be berated and belittled by your coach. An arss chewing is one thing but there is line that coaches should not cross. Local media has alluded to this being at least an issue in some of the departures.

I've worried about that for a couple of years. The screaming meathead intimidation approach just doesn't work and like you said, there's a fine line.

 

[OrangeWayOfLife]

I said almost a full class - 18 or 19 transfers at last count I think.

So 6 a year, not that different from other programs. Plus when you bring in talent that is greater than the upperclassman, they look around. You can read in to it what you want. But the people on here who are seriously hoping for this to be true is disturbing

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Has nothing to do with appeasing me. He should have done a better job with those tweets.

I said as much by including the numbers. Writing it as plainly as he did it wouldn't fit. Now if he shortened it or slanged it up then yes. But all others have said, myself included, is 108 + 55 does not equal 140 and therefore would not fit, as is.

 

[patrick]

So 6 a year, not that different from other programs. Plus when you bring in talent that is greater than the upperclassman, they look around. You can read in to it what you want. But the people on here who are seriously hoping for this to be true is disturbing

I dont believe Bama Ga Ole Miss FSU OKL OSU are losing 6 or more players a year to transfer.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

So 6 a year, not that different from other programs. Plus when you bring in talent that is greater than the upperclassman, they look around. You can read in to it what you want. But the people on here who are seriously hoping for this to be true is disturbing

No 18-19 in less than 3. The 15 season isn't complete so that number could go up. Before Oliver and Bruce it was around 16 out of 2 classes. 8 a year when trying to rebuild is not ideal. To maintain 85 you need to lose 15 over a 4 year period if you're taking 25 per class. Butch is on pace for 30+.

 

[warhammer]

I dont believe Bama Ga Ole Miss FSU OKL OSU are losing 6 or more a year.

To be fair, they haven't sucked out loud against good competition either. Still, I'd be sure I was hedging my bets by recruiting "high character" guys. Otherwise, he may be trying to remove that microphone he uses in practice from somewhere he doesn't want.

 

[VolsFan-TX]

I've worried about that for a couple of years. The screaming meathead intimidation approach just doesn't work and like you said, there's a fine line.

There are still a number of tough coaches out there, including Saban and Patterson. I was having this conversation tonight about Patterson (I live in Fort Worth) and many of the season ticket holders commented on how tough Patterson is to the players with yelling and getting in their faces, etc. Players respond to many styles of coaching, but winning goes a long way to heal any hurt feelings a young man may if yelling upsets him.

 

[BigZiti09]

I said as much by including the numbers. Writing it as plainly as he did it wouldn't fit. Now if he shortened it or slanged it up then yes. But all others have said, myself included, is 108 + 55 does not equal 140 and therefore would not fit, as is.

There's a dozen ways he could have tweeted it so as to avoid misinterpretation.

Personally I think the best way would be to say

1
"I spoke to Mack crowders father about the alleged altercation and... "

2
"He declined comment. Said he didn't want to validate internet rumors."

Instead, he broke it up in a way that minimalizes a very important part of the whole message. Irresponsible. And as a journalist he should realize the way you package your words is important.

 

[yotebuster]

To be fair, they haven't sucked out loud against good competition either. Still, I'd be sure I was hedging my bets by recruiting "high character" guys. Otherwise, he may be trying to remove that microphone he uses in practice from somewhere he doesn't want.

roflmao!

 

[patrick]

No 18-19 in less than 3. The 15 season isn't complete so that number could go up. Before Oliver and Bruce it was around 16 out of 2 classes. 8 a year when trying to rebuild is not ideal. To maintain 85 you need to lose 15 over a 4 year period if you're taking 25 per class. Butch is on pace for 30+.

and will likely have more transfers at the close of the season....based on the trend, on field issues, etc.

 

[utvolpj]

No 18-19 in less than 3. The 15 season isn't complete so that number could go up. Before Oliver and Bruce it was around 16 out of 2 classes. 8 a year when trying to rebuild is not ideal. To maintain 85 you need to lose 15 over a 4 year period if you're taking 25 per class. Butch is on pace for 30+.

No need for hypotheticals when you can just check the numbers in his classes. The large numbers of recruits plus the fact they're all within one year of each other makes for a more unique situation

 

[TennesseeFan07]

Who's the pre-Jones player? Both Moore and Posey played for him and seem to be in agreeance.

I was just referring to Swain. He has way too much credibility to give Stokes the okay to ask the question. Jayson is smart enough to know not to give Stokes permission unless he was 100 percent sure it was factual.

 

[BigZiti09]

No 18-19 in less than 3. The 15 season isn't complete so that number could go up. Before Oliver and Bruce it was around 16 out of 2 classes. 8 a year when trying to rebuild is not ideal. To maintain 85 you need to lose 15 over a 4 year period if you're taking 25 per class. Butch is on pace for 30+.

He's also taking in way more than needed to get to 85.

 

[GAVol]

So 6 a year, not that different from other programs. Plus when you bring in talent that is greater than the upperclassman, they look around. You can read in to it what you want. But the people on here who are seriously hoping for this to be true is disturbing

6 a year would be an insane number for an established program. I think we're in a unique situation to some degree though with the coaching change and roster turnover.

 

[BigZiti09]

I was just referring to Swain. He has way too much credibility to give Stokes the okay to ask the question. Jayson is smart enough to know not to give Stokes permission unless he was 100 percent sure it was factual.

Now Swain is giving Stokes "permission"?

 

[patrick]

Now Swain is giving Stokes "permission"?

Stokes is an extension of Swain and his radio program - "The Swain Event".

No way he did not discuss it with Stokes and give his blessing - if the allegation is false it could really hurt Swain's reputation and his program.