Constitutional Convention?

#76
#76
Why don't you just say I believe abortion is good and I'm a one issue voter?

Not Burhead but abortion is not the only social issue pushed by the social conservatives members.
these guys continually try to push their religious and moral beliefs on others. As a Christian I do not agree with that tactic. The Bible clearly states we are not to push our religion on others and that we all have free will to live the live we choose.
 
#77
#77
For example?

The department of education, the department of homeland security, the patriot act, two bank bailouts (one under each Bush), wanting to change the constitution or the constitution of there state to dictate who can and cannot get married....

It's a one party system.
 
#78
#78
Not Burhead but abortion is not the only social issue pushed by the social conservatives members.
these guys continually try to push their religious and moral beliefs on others. As a Christian I do not agree with that tactic. The Bible clearly states we are not to push our religion on others and that we all have free will to live the live we choose.

And we should all be familiar with how well theocracy is working in the Middle East.

Gramps, you and I mentioned snake handlers the other day. What's your take here? I believe they should be allowed worship as they see fit, as long as they do not have children present when they decide to pull out the snakes.
 
#79
#79
And we should all be familiar with how well theocracy is working in the Middle East.

Gramps, you and I mentioned snake handlers the other day. What's your take here? I believe they should be allowed worship as they see fit, as long as they do not have children present when they decide to pull out the snakes.

My personal opinion is the snake handlers are nuts. The Bible talks about Moses and Aaron's staff changing from a staff to a snake and back into a staff in the OT. That is the only reference to snake handling that I can recall in the Bible. I guess they translate that some way as to why they handle snakes.
I think they have the right to worship as they choose. I think when the practices a church does worship in a way that can cause grave harm or death to anyone in the congregation there is a line crossed and Government may be able to step in and stop the action. That move would open up a Pandora Box, imo.
I can truthfully tell you this. If I am in a church or anywhere else and someone is jumping around with a copper head Gramps is outta there. I think common sense needs to come in play. If they choose to handle snakes, why do the snakes have to be poisonous?
 
#80
#80
Then how about stopping with the broad meaningless statements and make a concrete point?

WTF are you talking about? I think it's crystal clear what my point is.

And meaningless statements like automatically assuming what kind of voter someone is?
 
#81
#81
My personal opinion is the snake handlers are nuts. The Bible talks about Moses and Aaron's staff changing from a staff to a snake and back into a staff in the OT. That is the only reference to snake handling that I can recall in the Bible. I guess they translate that some way as to why they handle snakes.
I think they have the right to worship as they choose. I think when the practices a church does worship in a way that can cause grave harm or death to anyone in the congregation there is a line crossed and Government may be able to step in and stop the action. That move would open up a Pandora Box, imo.
I can truthfully tell you this. If I am in a church or anywhere else and someone is jumping around with a copper head Gramps is outta there. I think common sense needs to come in play. If they choose to handle snakes, why do the snakes have to be poisonous?

I'm not certain why they decide to use poisonous snakes, but I still feel it is there decision to make. Does there choice endanger the whole congregation, yes. But they all made the decision to attend, so I see no problem with it.
 
#82
#82
My personal opinion is the snake handlers are nuts. The Bible talks about Moses and Aaron's staff changing from a staff to a snake and back into a staff in the OT. That is the only reference to snake handling that I can recall in the Bible. I guess they translate that some way as to why they handle snakes.
I think they have the right to worship as they choose. I think when the practices a church does worship in a way that can cause grave harm or death to anyone in the congregation there is a line crossed and Government may be able to step in and stop the action. That move would open up a Pandora Box, imo.
I can truthfully tell you this. If I am in a church or anywhere else and someone is jumping around with a copper head Gramps is outta there. I think common sense needs to come in play. If they choose to handle snakes, why do the snakes have to be poisonous?

Not agreeing with snake handling. But go read the end of the Gospel of Mark. That's where they get the text to handle snakes from.
 
#83
#83
How quickly this thread devolved into abortion and snake handling is proof, imo, that a Constitutional Convention at this point in our country's history is a very, very bad idea.
 
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#84
#84
How quickly this thread devolved into abortion and snake handling is proof, imo, that a Constitutional Convention at this point in our country's history is a very, very bad idea.

People deal with lawyers all the time. I'm not sure why a Constitutional Convention would be any different.
 
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#85
#85
People deal with lawyers all the time. I'm not sure why a Constitutional Convention would be any different.


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#86
#86
I'm not certain why they decide to use poisonous snakes, but I still feel it is there decision to make. Does there choice endanger the whole congregation, yes. But they all made the decision to attend, so I see no problem with it.

They all have made a decision to be there other than the children. This may fall under the category of parents not getting their children medical treatment because of some religious belief. As a Christian I believe we should pray for the sick but again common sense comes into play. I do not think Jesus would have a problem with anyone going to a doctor or he would not have chosen a doctor to be one of his disciples.
 
#87
#87
How quickly this thread devolved into abortion and snake handling is proof, imo, that a Constitutional Convention at this point in our country's history is a very, very bad idea.

based on the man sitting in the WH I have to agree. Definitely don't want people who voted for him getting a say. Maybe we should just wait until they die off
 
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#88
#88
I haven't seen any links in this thread, so do we actually have any real idea what the states might have in mind with this? For all we know, they might have the yearning to give the federal government even more power. Nothing would surprise me at this point.
 
#89
#89
They all have made a decision to be there other than the children. This may fall under the category of parents not getting their children medical treatment because of some religious belief. As a Christian I believe we should pray for the sick but again common sense comes into play. I do not think Jesus would have a problem with anyone going to a doctor or he would not have chosen a doctor to be one of his disciples.

As long as snakes and children are not present at the same service, I'm okay with it.
 
#90
#90
Not agreeing with snake handling. But go read the end of the Gospel of Mark. That's where they get the text to handle snakes from.

Thank you for pointing that out. My mistake. You are correct. Mark 16: 9-20. Verse 18 deals with the snake handling.

There is dispute whether or not those verses should be included in the New Testament. It is found in many old manuscripts but is omitted in two of the earliest complete copies of the Bible known as the Vaticanus (350 AD) and Sinaiticus (375 AD).
 
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#91
#91
The biggest problem I see in all this will be the tit for tat exchange that goes along with anything in politics these days and this Convention will ultimately fail to produce anything.

First the whole balanced budget amendment will ultimately fail because Congress will never agree on what cuts should be made or which taxes will be raised. Even if it is a Federal law and Constitutional Amendment, how often has the Federal government (all three branches) gone around the Constitution these days anyway?

Second, what are the chances that 3/4s of the States ratify it if it means deep cuts in social programs, military, federal assistance, etc? Because first you have to have Congress get on board with a balanced budget which it has been unable to do except sporadically through the last 40 years. And further, the people have to accept the fact that government will have to cut significant programs to get the books balanced. And that's something that's just not going to happen with either side of the political equation as news agencies will hype up the cuts as detrimental to whatever fundamental doctrine they hold dear.

And last, but not least, LG hit on the subject (although in a typical partisan fashion) of political agendas getting involved in this. Far be it while we are looking at the Constitutional Amendment process for someone to get the idea to toss in their own agenda and why not revise that pesky 2nd Amendment to reflect "modern day attitudes" with clear modern language that starts putting limitations on the type of firearms allowed? Or add in an Amendment concerning religion in schools?

And the Convention will break down along those partisan lines. Or start the you give me this and I'll give you that type of bickering. You get a revision of the 17th Amendment if I get a revision of the 2nd Amendment. And will break down without anything getting accomplished. Or will include changes that the people won't accept for the 3/4s majority.
 
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#92
#92
WTF are you talking about? I think it's crystal clear what my point is.

And meaningless statements like automatically assuming what kind of voter someone is?

No, your posts are usually directed at the poster instead of making a point.
 
#93
#93
The department of education, the department of homeland security, the patriot act, two bank bailouts (one under each Bush), wanting to change the constitution or the constitution of there state to dictate who can and cannot get married....

It's a one party system.

I agree about those issues above you mention that they are not conservative but I don't see what they have to do with social conservatives. Social conservatives mainly base their beliefs on Christian doctrine and they tend to fight in the arena of prayer in school, abortion, the separation issue, traditional family values, etc. Those issues above have nothing to do with social conservatism. Both Bush's were progressives and Nixon was a progressive.
 
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#94
#94
My personal opinion is the snake handlers are nuts. The Bible talks about Moses and Aaron's staff changing from a staff to a snake and back into a staff in the OT. That is the only reference to snake handling that I can recall in the Bible. I guess they translate that some way as to why they handle snakes.
I think they have the right to worship as they choose. I think when the practices a church does worship in a way that can cause grave harm or death to anyone in the congregation there is a line crossed and Government may be able to step in and stop the action. That move would open up a Pandora Box, imo.
I can truthfully tell you this. If I am in a church or anywhere else and someone is jumping around with a copper head Gramps is outta there. I think common sense needs to come in play. If they choose to handle snakes, why do the snakes have to be poisonous?

I tend to agree but again social conservatives who tend to base their beliefs on Christian doctrine still have a right to voice their opinion in the arena of ideas. So, should they leave the arena to only the middle or the left? Then where would we be?
 
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#95
#95
The department of education, the department of homeland security, the patriot act, two bank bailouts (one under each Bush), wanting to change the constitution or the constitution of there state to dictate who can and cannot get married....

It's a one party system.

I have no problem with that. That is where it should be fought. It is a state's right issue. We have a tyrannical judiciary right now who are superseding their authority. That is what the Liberty Amendments are all about. At least with this approach it would take legislatures and not one non-elected judge to change the law.
 
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#96
#96
How quickly this thread devolved into abortion and snake handling is proof, imo, that a Constitutional Convention at this point in our country's history is a very, very bad idea.

A Constitutional Convention is where the battle should be fought. But, I can see where you are comfortable leaving the decisions to non-elected judges. Of course if we made our system a little less complex we might not need as many lawyers.
 
#98
#98
I haven't seen any links in this thread, so do we actually have any real idea what the states might have in mind with this? For all we know, they might have the yearning to give the federal government even more power. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Since most of the states that are addressing this issue are the 34 smallest states with a few exceptions I would tend to believe they are concerned with the state of the Republic.
 
#99
#99
The biggest problem I see in all this will be the tit for tat exchange that goes along with anything in politics these days and this Convention will ultimately fail to produce anything.

First the whole balanced budget amendment will ultimately fail because Congress will never agree on what cuts should be made or which taxes will be raised. Even if it is a Federal law and Constitutional Amendment, how often has the Federal government (all three branches) gone around the Constitution these days anyway?

Second, what are the chances that 3/4s of the States ratify it if it means deep cuts in social programs, military, federal assistance, etc? Because first you have to have Congress get on board with a balanced budget which it has been unable to do except sporadically through the last 40 years. And further, the people have to accept the fact that government will have to cut significant programs to get the books balanced. And that's something that's just not going to happen with either side of the political equation as news agencies will hype up the cuts as detrimental to whatever fundamental doctrine they hold dear.

And last, but not least, LG hit on the subject (although in a typical partisan fashion) of political agendas getting involved in this. Far be it while we are looking at the Constitutional Amendment process for someone to get the idea to toss in their own agenda and why not revise that pesky 2nd Amendment to reflect "modern day attitudes" with clear modern language that starts putting limitations on the type of firearms allowed? Or add in an Amendment concerning religion in schools?

And the Convention will break down along those partisan lines. Or start the you give me this and I'll give you that type of bickering. You get a revision of the 17th Amendment if I get a revision of the 2nd Amendment. And will break down without anything getting accomplished. Or will include changes that the people won't accept for the 3/4s majority.

It would be nice to see the amendment though and then watch Congress try to find ways to skirt it. I think your 3/4's of the states will be hard to get because you're right. Those 16 or 17 states who welcomed Obamacare with open arms are past the point of no return in my opinion. But, if something drastic happens to the economy in the next few years it might cause a few of them to change their view. At least, enough of them to reach the 38 number.
 
A CC would be ugly but what we have right now is ugly (uglier?).

I say we go for it.

Are you sure you are okay with today's politicians from either side changing the Constitution? That is very scary , imo.
 
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