Constitutional Convention?

[therealUT]

So who does the selecting, the Legislature or the Governor?

The legislatures. Governors are not required for the applications for convention.

 

[Grand Vol]

The legislatures. Governors are not required for the applications for convention.

So in effect they can choose anyone they desire, no? And this very well could include the aforementioned career politicians.

Whether they are career at State or Federal level doesn't matter. The fact they made politics a profession does.

 

[Sandvol]

3 and 5-10 are exceedingly dangerous.

But even if it was announced that those were the ten reasons for the convention you can't limit it once it's open and the Tea Party nuts and the Koch brother bought and paid for representatives can offer up any mischief they want.

Do you want to elaborate?

 

[FLVOL69]

Do you want to elaborate?

Translation.. Levin is brilliant and I'm just a run of the mill ambulance chaser.

 

[Sandvol]

Here is the Tea Party Platform. Could you explain which of these ideas you have a problem with or are nutty?

Preamble: The Tea Party Movement is an all-inclusive American grassroots movement with the belief that everyone is created equal and deserves an equal opportunity to thrive in these United States where they may “pursue life, liberty and happiness” as stated in the Declaration of Independence and guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.

No one is excluded from participation in the Tea Party Movement. Everyone is welcomed to join in seeking to achieve the Tea Party Movement goals, which are as follows:

1. Eliminate Excessive Taxes - Excessively high taxes are a burden for those exercising their personal liberty to work hard and prosper as afforded by the Constitution. A fiscally responsible government protects the freedom of its citizens to enjoy the fruits of their own labor without interference from a government that has exceeded its necessary size, scope and reach into the lives of its citizens.

“Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery.” --Calvin Coolidge

“A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.” --Thomas Jefferson

“Any tax is a discouragement and therefore a regulation.” --Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

2. Eliminate the National Debt - By implementing fiscally conservative policies at all levels of government, progress can be made toward eliminating the U.S. National Debt. Massive increases in the National Debt have created and continue to create a huge burden for the next generation of Americans, thus imperiling the country’s short-term and long-term economic health and prosperity.

“You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today.” --Abraham Lincoln

“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.” --Thomas Paine, 1776

“As on the one hand, the necessity for borrowing in particular emergencies cannot be doubted, so on the other, it is equally evident that to be able to borrow upon good terms, it is essential that the credit of a nation should be well established.” --Alexander Hamilton, 1790

Tea Party Platform continued:

3. Eliminate Deficit Spending - All deficit spending must be eliminated immediately. We insist that government representatives at all levels maintain a fiscally responsible budget and balance the books as would be expected of any American business.

“Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.” --George Washington

“A penny saved is a penny earned.” --Benjamin Franklin

“Tomorrow, every Fault is to be amended; but that Tomorrow never comes.” --Benjamin Franklin



4. Protect Free Markets - America’s free enterprise system allows businesses to thrive as they compete in the open marketplace and strive toward ever better services and products. Allowing free markets to prosper unfettered by government interference is what propelled this country to greatness with an enduring belief in the industriousness and innovations of the populace.

“That some achieve great success, is proof to all that others can achieve it as well.” --Abraham Lincoln

“You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man’s initiative and independence.” --Abraham Lincoln

“The government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” --Ronald Reagan


5. Abide by the Constitution of the United States - The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land and must be adhered to without exception at all levels of government. This includes the Bill of Rights and other Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and their provisions designed to protect states’ rights and individual liberties.

“A general Dissolution of Principles & Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America than the whole Force of the Common Enemy.” --Samuel Adams, 1779

“The Constitution is the guide which I will never abandon.” --George Washington

“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” --Abraham Lincoln


6. Promote Civic Responsibility - Citizen involvement at the grassroots level allows the voice of the American people to be heard and directs the political behaviors of our representatives at both the local and national level so they, in turn, may be most effective in working to preserve the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of this country’s citizens.

“The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave.” --Patrick Henry

“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.” --Abraham Lincoln

“Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light” --George Washington

“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.” --Thomas Jefferson



7. Reduce the Overall Size of Government - A bloated bureaucracy creates wasteful spending that plagues our government. Reducing the overall size, scope and reach of government at both local and national levels will help to eliminate inefficiencies that result in deficit spending which adds to our country’s debt.

“My observation is that whenever one person is found adequate to the discharge of a duty...it is worse executed by two persons, and scarcely done at all if three or more are employed therein.” --George Washington

“If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy.” --Samuel Adams, 1802

“Energy and persistence conquer all things.” --Benjamin Franklin


8. Believe in the People - The American people, given their guaranteed freedoms, will thrive in a democratic, capitalist environment which allows individuals to strive toward ever greater achievements, innovations and the efficient production of needed and valued goods and services.

“Industry need not wish.” --Benjamin Franklin

“Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth.” --Abraham Lincoln

“The people will save their government, if the government itself will allow them.” --Abraham Lincoln


9. Avoid the Pitfalls of Politics - American politics is burdened by big money from lobbyists and special interests with an undue influence on the peoples’ representatives. The Tea Party movement is seen as a threat to the entrenched political parties and thus is the continual target of smear campaigns and misrepresentation of its ideals. We choose not to respond to these attacks except to strongly and explicitly disavow any and all hate speech, any and all violence as well as insinuations of violence, and any and all extreme and fringe elements that bring discredit to the Tea Party Movement. We are a peaceful movement and respect other's opinions and views even though they do not agree with our own. We stand by the Tea Party beliefs and goals and choose to focus our energies on ensuring that our government representatives do the same.

“I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.” --Abraham Lincoln

“Honesty is the best policy.” --Benjamin Franklin

“Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.” --George Washington


Also see: What is the Tea Party; Tea Party Ideas; Tea Partiers; Voice of the Tea Party

10. Maintain Local Independence - The strength and resilience of a grassroots movement is the ability of citizens at the local level to determine their own platforms, agendas and priorities free of an overriding central leadership. Exercising the clearly stated message of the Tea Party movement by its nature involves discourse about which policies and candidates best hold to our stated principles, and these various opinions should flourish and evolve at the local level.

“Here sir, the people govern.” --Alexander Hamilton in a speech to the New York Ratifying Convention, 1788

“Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories.” --Samuel Adams, 1781

“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it.” --Abraham Lincoln

 

[AggieInTN]

3 and 5-10 are exceedingly dangerous.

But even if it was announced that those were the ten reasons for the convention you can't limit it once it's open and the Tea Party nuts and the Koch brother bought and paid for representatives can offer up any mischief they want.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the Koch Brothers are only the 59th biggest political donors in the past 25 years. In fact, there isn't even a Republican in the top 15. https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

 

[Gramps]

You lost me with the Preamble: The Tea Party Movement is an all-inclusive American grassroots movement with the belief that everyone is created equal and deserves an equal opportunity to thrive in these United States where they may “pursue life, liberty and happiness” as stated in the Declaration of Independence and guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.*

No one is excluded from participation in the Tea Party Movement. Everyone is welcomed to join in seeking to achieve the Tea Party Movement goals, which are as follows:

Too bad the tea party does not live by this.

Equal my butt. Many of the far right social conservatives of the tea party surely have never read the preamble

 

[Sandvol]

Have you tried joining and they turned you down?

 

[govols/cc]

From Mark Levin's book Liberty Amendments,Mark Levin is proposing ten amendments to the Constitution. Each one is written in thoughtful language so as to preclude any ancillary problems: (from Red State blog)

1) Term Limits: He proposes limiting service in both the House and Senate to 12 years. Yes, we’ve heard all the arguments about elections being the best limit. But the past 100 year has proven that to be false. As someone who works day and night to throw the bums out, I can tell you that is nearly impossible to throw them out with the amount of money they raise – precisely for their abuses of power. Levin also proves that limiting time in office was a highly regarded proposal during the Constitutional Congress.

2) Repealing the 17th Amendment: Levin proposes repealing the 17th amendment and vesting state legislators with the power to elect senators so that the power of states is not diluted, as originally feared by the framers of the Constitution.

3) Restoring the Judiciary to its proper role: The Judiciary was never meant to be an all-powerful institution in which five men in robes have the final say over every major policy battle in the country. In order to end judicial tyranny, Levin proposes limiting service to one 12-year term, and granting both Congress and the state legislatures the authority to overturn court decisions with the vote of three-fifths of both houses of Congress or state legislative bodies.

4) Limiting Taxation and Spending: Levin proposes a balanced budget amendment, limiting spending to 17.5% of GDP and requiring a three-fifths vote to raise the debt ceiling. He also proposes limiting the power to tax to 15% of an individual’s income, prohibiting other forms of taxation, and placing the deadline to file one’s taxes one day before the next federal election.

5) Limiting bureaucracy: He proposes an amendment to limit and sunset federal regulations and subject the existence of all federal departments to stand-alone reauthorization bills every three years.

6) Defining the Commerce Clause: Levin writes an amendment that, while technically unnecessary, is practically an imperative to restoring the original intent of the Commerce Clause. The amendment would make it clear that the commerce clause grants not power to actively regulate and control activity; rather to prevent states from impeding commerce among other states, as Madison originally intended.

7) Limiting Federal power to take private property

8) Allowing State Legislature to Amend the Constitution: Although the Framers intentionally made it difficult to amend the Constitution, they did so to preserve the Republic they created. However, the progressives have illegally altered our Republic through a silent and gradual coup without using the amendment process. If we are going to successfully push the aforementioned amendments, we will need an easier mechanism to force them through. The proposed amendment allows states to bypass Congress and propose an amendment with support of just two-thirds of the states (instead of three-fourths) and without convening a convention.

9) State Authority to Override Congress: A proposed amendment to allow states to override federal statutes by majority vote in two-thirds of state legislatures. The last two proposals are rooted in the idea that the states only agreed to the Constitution on condition that their power would not be diluted and that all federal power is derived from the states.

10) Protecting the Vote: A proposal to require photo ID for all federal elections and limit early voting.

Everything you propose will be the opposite of what they will. Time to write the liberal constitution.

 

[Sandvol]

Everything you propose will be the opposite of what they will. Time to write the liberal constitution.

Marx already did that.

 

[therealUT]

So in effect they can choose anyone they desire, no? And this very well could include the aforementioned career politicians.

Whether they are career at State or Federal level doesn't matter. The fact they made politics a profession does.

It could. However, they would likely not choose congressmen for the following two reasons: such a convention signals a lack of faith in congress to do the job; the state legislatures did not choose the reps or the senators, so who knows who they would appoint.

 

[therealUT]

Nobody is satisfied with congress, yet all seem terrified of any alternatives.

The results of a constitutional convention could be devastating, however, if you don't like congress and you don't want the state legislatures doing anything either, then what type of government do you want?

Congress will not be passing a balanced budget amendment to be ratified by the states anytime soon. The house is not going to repeal the 1929 reapportionment act. The senate is not going to repeal the 17th amendment. Neither will repeal the 16th. Neither are going to propose legislation to give power back to the states or the people. A constitutional convention is the only hope for restraining the inertia that is the federal government gaining more power every year and every day. Yet, this is scary, so all the people say no and opt for the status quo?

Brakes must be applied and the federal government is not going to apply them.

 

[Grand Vol]

A constitutional convention is the only hope for restraining the inertia that is the federal government gaining more power every year and every day.

Not the only option sadly.

 

[therealUT]

Not the only option sadly.

Right, we could resort to physical violence.

 

[Grand Vol]

It could. However, they would likely not choose congressmen for the following two reasons: such a convention signals a lack of faith in congress to do the job; the state legislatures did not choose the reps or the senators, so who knows who they would appoint.

Perhaps. But at the same time who would they choose? Businessmen, doctors, engineers, lawyers and academics and that have no political affiliations or ambitions? Farmer Joe who pulls a Cincinnatus and goes home when it's all over?

Or do they pick than someone they know and who they trust have their own interests at heart?

 

[FLVOL69]

Right, we could resort to physical violence.

Not that far fetched imo.

 

[Grand Vol]

Right, we could resort to physical violence.

As a student of history, you should be be familiar with what starts revolutions.

 

[Vol8188]

It's about time we complelty eliminated that pesky constitution! No more term limits (thanks Obama)! No more guns! (Thanks liberals)! No more free speach or press (thanks republicans)! No more 5th amendment (let the police state begin!)! And welcome titles of nobility (Sir VOL8188 to you common folk)!

 

[DC_Vol]

States want a convention because their elected representatives have failed to represent state interests and have allowed the Fed to steamroll state interests.

I'm all for it. This was a method provided to the people to check federal power. It's really one of the few alternatives available when the federal government no longer represents the interest of the people.

I hope they would address balanced budget, term limits, czar appointments (unfettered power of unelected positions), and look at whether repeal of 17th amendment (as this is a reason state interests are not being properly represented) is justified.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

3 and 5-10 are exceedingly dangerous.

But even if it was announced that those were the ten reasons for the convention you can't limit it once it's open and the Tea Party nuts and the Koch brother bought and paid for representatives can offer up any mischief they want.

What scares me is people like you who honestly think you're some open-minded independent, yet you constantly prove you're no better than the ones you constantly slam.

 

[DC_Vol]

Perhaps. But at the same time who would they choose? Businessmen, doctors, engineers, lawyers and academics and that have no political affiliations or ambitions? Farmer Joe who pulls a Cincinnatus and goes home when it's all over?

Or do they pick than someone they know and who they trust have their own interests at heart?

States would send their own delegates. Believe the selection process will be up to each participating state.

 

[Grand Vol]

States would send their own delegates. Believe the selection process will be up to each participating state.

Got that, but who are the States going to choose? And that was the point of my post. Someone who goes should be politically unmotivated and not connected.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[lawgator1]

Here is the Tea Party Platform. Could you explain which of these ideas you have a problem with or are nutty?

Preamble: The Tea Party Movement is an all-inclusive American grassroots movement with the belief that everyone is created equal and deserves an equal opportunity to thrive in these United States where they may “pursue life, liberty and happiness” as stated in the Declaration of Independence and guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.

No one is excluded from participation in the Tea Party Movement. Everyone is welcomed to join in seeking to achieve the Tea Party Movement goals, which are as follows:

1. Eliminate Excessive Taxes - Excessively high taxes are a burden for those exercising their personal liberty to work hard and prosper as afforded by the Constitution. A fiscally responsible government protects the freedom of its citizens to enjoy the "........

Simple.

That's not really the platform.

Honestly, why not just claim they are for puppy dogs and sunny weather?

 

[lawgator1]

Got that, but who are the States going to choose? And that was the point of my post. Someone who goes should be politically unmotivated and not connected.

LOL.

Dude, if you think that's who is going that's hilarious.