Concerning player grades and responsibility of the coach...

#26
#26
kptvol said:
It was my fault that I scheduled badly my senior year, despite the fact that my academic advisor assured me everything was in order. I was informed that I didn't have two requirements necessary for my degree after my family had already witnessed me walk across the stage. However, the only penalty was that I had to take a couple of summer courses. I feel a little sorry for Lucas on this one. He more than likely just made a simple oversight. It's not like he neglected his academics. He probably would have set the UT single season receptions record if not for this.
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Athletes get a lot more attention from advisors then normal students do. Someone got an earful from Fulmer no doubt when this was revealed.
 
#27
#27
Prior to slamming the coaches I would suggest a little research.

ThorntonCenter.net

Pay particular attention to:

"Coaches are not permitted to call instructors to ask about grades. All contacts with faculty and other instructional staff having to do with academic progress should come from the Thornton Center. The staff of the Thornton Center serve as academic counselors and are vitally concerned with the progress of their students. Faculty feedback concerning the academic progress of the student-athlete is critical and cooperation is encouraged. Please see the sample "Progress report" on this web site. If instructors ever feel pressured to give an unearned grade or to reveal grades before the University deadlines, please contact the Director of the Thornton Center or the NCAA Faculty Representative as soon as possible."

I sure do miss OldVol67.
 
#28
#28
kptvol said:
It was my fault that I scheduled badly my senior year, despite the fact that my academic advisor assured me everything was in order. I was informed that I didn't have two requirements necessary for my degree after my family had already witnessed me walk across the stage. However, the only penalty was that I had to take a couple of summer courses. I feel a little sorry for Lucas on this one. He more than likely just made a simple oversight. It's not like he neglected his academics. He probably would have set the UT single season receptions record if not for this.
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Who acts as the advisors for the students at UT?
 
#29
#29
You can't coach "want too". Inky Johnson's graduation is all that needs to be said. If anyone had a reason not to "want too" it was Inky. Put him in charge of of keeping an eye on things!
 
#30
#30
I think both players and coaches have a share of this fiasco.

There are ways to check on players grades without seeming to intimidate a prof.

UT has an excellant support service for the players.

Beyond the actual coaching duties, there are 3 major obligations I see for the coaching staff...1. knowing the health of each player and not putting such in front of the team (players choice to do so only, see Mitchell 05, Harrel 06 etc.) 2. maintaining a program that strives to meet all NCAA requirements (it is damn difficult not to trip up somewhere sometime somehow), and 3. (not necessarily in this order) making sure the student athlete is actually a student and being up to snuff on academic standing.

The student athlete has obligations also...to do the academics, take care of their health, be responsible student athletes who represent their university in a positive manner, and play their best when called on to do so.

It seems, again, our players and coaches have not met these obligations. I find it difficult to comprehend.

It is a poor note to go into 08 season (yes I am one of the few on this board who seems to think the season starts 1/1 against wisconsin). GO VOLS, go to class, perform, stay eligible, and play like hell 1/1!:eek:k:
 
#31
#31
As to the above, a point of clarification...I do not want an injured player playing unless it is his and his familys decision to do so. I do not want a coach or trainer playing a kid who may risk serious injury. Again, Harrel made his own choice, I applauded it, thought it showed extreme guts and a "team first" spirit.

My first post might have been confusing, sorry.
 
#33
#33
The coordination in Knoxville must flow thru the Thornton Center. The "Academic" side of UT does not want the Coaches bothering, pressuring, or putting "requirements" (i.e. work) on the professors.
 
#34
#34
Every thing being said, All well and good. The Coaches are somewhat accountable but not Responsible... If I see a player everyday, I would ask how it is going. Let a Player miss a practice and it is a major Catastrophe. Miss a class and their is nothing to it. We need both and the Coaches owe it to the University and the Players to hold them accountable for not living up to their end of the contract or Schlorships... It does not hurt to ask, Who missed class today and why... Then tell them to go see their adviser at Thorton Academic Center...

As far as L. Taylor is concerned that is strictly the fault of the Athletic Department and the people accountable to UT to ensure that we are Following all the Guidelines and Rules set Forth by the NCAA.
 
#35
#35
hohenfelsvol said:
I agree on individual responsibility but disagree on the level of the a coaches responsibility. This is college ball. Part of the coach's responsibility is to make sure the kids can play. For any coach to be surprised by a players ineligibility due to academics at the end of a semester is just another indication the current staff is out of touch.
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CPF announced several days before the grades came out that there were a handful of guys they were really concerned about. How is that a surprise?

They obviously had a handle on it... but they can't do the work for them. I mean do you guys seriously think someone can be forced to learn?

You can put them in class. You can make them sit with the tutor. You can monitor that they're doing their class work. You can't infuse them magically with understanding... or force a guy that maybe doesn't care to care.
 
#36
#36
sjt18 said:
CPF announced several days before the grades came out that there were a handful of guys they were really concerned about. How is that a surprise?

They obviously had a handle on it... but they can't do the work for them. I mean do you guys seriously think someone can be forced to learn?

You can put them in class. You can make them sit with the tutor. You can monitor that they're doing their class work. You can't infuse them magically with understanding... or force a guy that maybe doesn't care to care.
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All you have to do is attend classes... If you do not then you better have a legitimate excuse or you do not play... I do not expect Coaches to go or make them.

It is a part of the players life right now. They have an obligation to attend Classes.

What would happen if they missed practices as much as they missed classes. Right now it, what you are saying is that there are different consequences.

If they miss a practice they are disciplined accordingly and if they miss classes then nothing happens. With the staff stating it is not my job. (Finger Pointing BS)

All the coaches have to do is ask the player when he sees them everyday. "Did you attend class and if the answer is "No Coach" then Why not. If the answer is not good enough.

Forward an email to the appropriate people at Thorton Hall.... It is just a matter of Checking. Again the L Taylor problem should have never happened...

Identify the problem and fix it... versus sitting and waiting for the consequences...
 
#37
#37
Sudden Impact, Is there some documentation somewhere that these guys failed because they didn't attend class?
 
#38
#38
sjt18 said:
Sudden Impact, Is there some documentation somewhere that these guys failed because they didn't attend class?
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He probably has no hard evidence but I can tell you 90% of the students that fail my classes miss on a regular basis.
 
#39
#39
there are plenty of examples of programs where new coaches took over and the grad rates went up significantly along with the number of wins. while i agree it's the players fault there is no question that an active coaching staff can make a huge difference.
 
#40
#40
sjt18 said:
Sudden Impact, Is there some documentation somewhere that these guys failed because they didn't attend class?
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UT athletes are required to attend class. They have people check in on them to make sure they are going. I think that was a big part of why Gerald Riggs couldn't get on the field sooner than he did. Fulmer knew he was skipping classes.
 
#41
#41
sjt18 said:
Sudden Impact, Is there some documentation somewhere that these guys failed because they didn't attend class?
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utchatt said:
He probably has no hard evidence but I can tell you 90% of the students that fail my classes miss on a regular basis.
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Several newspapers and radio station reported it was a lack of Class attendance... for nearly all of the cases. We expect a lot of student athletes and there is no doubt that a lot of students could not balance the demands of their sport and College academics. Look at Georgia's Basketball 101 class as a great example of what universities sometimes do to keep players on the field.

Going to Class is 90% of the battle won. We arrange their schedules so that they can attend Class and play football without any conflicts. What happens is that these Kids are new to the College environment and get caught up in the priorities of their Sport and drop the Academics... Face it an 18 to 20 year old hitting UT Campus for the first time as a student is a pretty impressive event, no matter what background you come from. In some cases, it is like the country boy going to New York City. You can easily get caught up into it. There is a lot more to do at any college campus versus going to Class.

But you are telling me that the Coaches either do not realize this, or that that accountablity belongs to somebody else, or that they do realize this and choose to do nothing about it. I am not buying that BS

But you cannot tell me that Pat Head Summit who maintains a near perfect Grad rate does not monitor Classroom Attendance and Grades. It is part of her recruiting process with the parents and the Child. When you get her as a coach she bargins and sells the entire process. Athletics and Education.

We are not asking these kids to be rocket scientists and if they choose that route you will never have to ask if they attended classes that day...

In the case, of our football team somewhere the Communication process failed. I just asking that the coaches monitor players and ask simple questions at practice everyday. Verify the players answers and then there will be no suprise and the problem may be fixed before we loose 6 players for a bowl game. This does not help recruiting either... As for the L Taylor thing, someone in the AD's office needs to be fired or reprimanded, that is totally absurbed.
 
#42
#42
kptvol said:
UT athletes are required to attend class. They have people check in on them to make sure they are going. I think that was a big part of why Gerald Riggs couldn't get on the field sooner than he did. Fulmer knew he was skipping classes.
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Every college requires their athletes to attend classes.
 
#44
#44
Sudden Impact said:
Going to Class is 90% of the battle won. We arrange their schedules so that they can attend Class and play football without any conflicts. What happens is that these Kids are new to the College environment and get caught up in the priorities of their Sport and drop the Academics... Face it an 18 to 20 year old hitting UT Campus for the first time as a student is a pretty impressive event, no matter what background you come from. In some cases, it is like the country boy going to New York City. You can easily get caught up into it. There is a lot more to do at any college campus versus going to Class.
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This is a perfect assessment and I am living proof of it. When I went to college I got completely overwhelmed during my first semester trying to adjust to college and practice 3-4 hours a day and all I was doing was playing NAIA golf. I can only imagine the transition to a place as large as UT and SEC football.
 
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