Commandant of the Marine Corps bans all Confederate symbols

#76
#76
It's always seemed to me that making exceptions to regulation wear to accommodate someone's religion violates the constitutional rules regarding religious preference.

I wasn’t even thinking of the constitution. I was thinking about the fact that you can’t wear a protective mask (gas mask) with a beard. In one of the pictures the soldier is a Captain so he’s in a leadership position and couldn’t go into a NBC environment.

Regardless of religion beards shouldn’t be allowed due to operational reasons.
 
#78
#78
I wasn’t even thinking of the constitution. I was thinking about the fact that you can’t wear a protective mask (gas mask) with a beard. In one of the pictures the soldier is a Captain so he’s in a leadership position and couldn’t go into a NBC environment.

Regardless of religion beards shouldn’t be allowed due to operational reasons.

I really hadn't considered the practical side. You are exactly right. Anybody following the allowable beard policy should have to go through face mask training and see how the beard works out and then decide. I don't remember the gas chamber being a pleasant experience even when you were clean shaven and prepared for it.
 
#79
#79
I wasn’t even thinking of the constitution. I was thinking about the fact that you can’t wear a protective mask (gas mask) with a beard. In one of the pictures the soldier is a Captain so he’s in a leadership position and couldn’t go into a NBC environment.

Regardless of religion beards shouldn’t be allowed due to operational reasons.
He’s privileged for religious reasons. Probably starve to death before he’d eat a pork MRE.
 
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#80
#80
He’s privileged for religious reasons. Probably starve to death before he’d eat a pork MRE.

Did you ever have the pleasure of eating pork slices and potato C rations served cold? That took some hunger to conquer even for us heathens.
 
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#83
#83
Dude, why are you being difficult for no reason? Whenever people hear Union Jack, they think of the British flag, not a US naval jack.
Guess that's part of being in the military and being in the know. I figured that's what you were referencing. Damn civies

edit

I get where you are coming from. We do fly German flags at US bases in Germany. Same goes for Japanese flags. Those both represent some pretty horrific stuff in the past.

That being said I dont think there are any active USMC bases (Forts) that were Confederate. I believe the closest they get is NAS Pensacola and Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.
 
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#84
#84
Guess that's part of being in the military and being in the know. I figured that's what you were referencing. Damn civies

When I was growing up as an AF brat, "civilian" was a very derogatory term around our house. I still find it insulting when cops and others use the term "civilian" like they see themselves as similar to the military.
 
#85
#85
When I was growing up as an AF brat, "civilian" was a very derogatory term around our house. I still find it insulting when cops and others use the term "civilian" like they see themselves as similar to the military.
I never mean it in a derogatory way. When I read Ras's post I immediately thought US naval jack, not the English flag...because thats what I was used to.
 
#86
#86
This is the question that has been asked inside the Army for maybe the last 10 years as it is concern with bases named after Confederate generals.
Which is more than stupid. I'll get to that momentarily.

The Commandant made a decision to remove the Confederate stuff from his bases. Ok, that's within his purview and authority to do so. My question would be the "why" such a thing was necessary. The article had referenced several incidents over the past several years. But it's not showing whether there was an uptick in such incidents compared to say the last 20-30 years. Every service has it's knuckleheads and every service is going to bounce someone for being a racist. I want to know if the trend is growing upwards or this was purely a move to appease the social justice warriors and show "we're doing something".

On to the main point, the idea the bases named after CSA leadership being renamed because of the side they supported in a Civil War is idiotic at best and poor taste at worst. Most of those Officers who's namesake is being used were loyal Union Officers well before being Confederate Officers and those who decided to be loyal to their individual states at the outbreak of the war. Robert E. Lee even opposed secession from the Union and only picked a side after heavy consideration. The country was a radically different place back in those times as the individual states had almost as much power as the federal government and soldiers were Virginians or Georgians first, Americans second. Most of the units involved didn't identify themselves as "United States Army" or "Confederate States Army", but instead the "3rd New York Volunteer Infantry Regiment of the Union Army" or "1st Alabama Cavalry of the Confederate Army." Unified national units only came out after the Civil War. State loyalty was first, national loyalty second in the minds of most which is why many fought for the Confederacy. They didn't fight to preserve slavery, they fought to preserve their homes against what they considered was an external threat.

Not even remembering, or more likely not mentioning, most of those figures were pardoned or granted amnesty by either President Lincoln and Johnson after the war.

No matter what, the different bases have made legacies for themselves now rather than their namesake. If someone was to bring up Fort Bragg in conversation, people would probably think "Airborne" first and not even have the first clue who General Braxton Bragg was. Or mention Fort Polk to any Army member and they automatically associate it with misery instead of with a Confederate General. I'd bet most people have zero clue who the bases are named after and only a select few would only get offended after learning Fort Hood was named for a Confederate General. Because those are the types that are always searching for something to be offended about.

If social justice warriors get offended over the namesake of a base, they really have no life and should shut up.
 
#87
#87
Which is more than stupid. I'll get to that momentarily.

The Commandant made a decision to remove the Confederate stuff from his bases. Ok, that's within his purview and authority to do so. My question would be the "why" such a thing was necessary. The article had referenced several incidents over the past several years. But it's not showing whether there was an uptick in such incidents compared to say the last 20-30 years. Every service has it's knuckleheads and every service is going to bounce someone for being a racist. I want to know if the trend is growing upwards or this was purely a move to appease the social justice warriors and show "we're doing something".

On to the main point, the idea the bases named after CSA leadership being renamed because of the side they supported in a Civil War is idiotic at best and poor taste at worst. Most of those Officers who's namesake is being used were loyal Union Officers well before being Confederate Officers and those who decided to be loyal to their individual states at the outbreak of the war. Robert E. Lee even opposed secession from the Union and only picked a side after heavy consideration. The country was a radically different place back in those times as the individual states had almost as much power as the federal government and soldiers were Virginians or Georgians first, Americans second. Most of the units involved didn't identify themselves as "United States Army" or "Confederate States Army", but instead the "3rd New York Volunteer Infantry Regiment of the Union Army" or "1st Alabama Cavalry of the Confederate Army." Unified national units only came out after the Civil War. State loyalty was first, national loyalty second in the minds of most which is why many fought for the Confederacy. They didn't fight to preserve slavery, they fought to preserve their homes against what they considered was an external threat.

Not even remembering, or more likely not mentioning, most of those figures were pardoned or granted amnesty by either President Lincoln and Johnson after the war.

No matter what, the different bases have made legacies for themselves now rather than their namesake. If someone was to bring up Fort Bragg in conversation, people would probably think "Airborne" first and not even have the first clue who General Braxton Bragg was. Or mention Fort Polk to any Army member and they automatically associate it with misery instead of with a Confederate General. I'd bet most people have zero clue who the bases are named after and only a select few would only get offended after learning Fort Hood was named for a Confederate General. Because those are the types that are always searching for something to be offended about.

If social justice warriors get offended over the namesake of a base, they really have no life and should shut up.

It is that thing we see more and more of - incorrectly interpreting history by today's standards. It gives the wrong answer virtually every time, and it always will. It's the PC issue bundled (or bungled) a little differently, and it will go on until enough people stand up and point out the stupidity of arguing an invalid point. I always like to think of "what will people think of things we do today a hundred years from now" or how medicine or travel or technology of today may be viewed as crude in the future, but the "critical" historians sure like their cars and iPhones right now.
 
#88
#88
Guess that's part of being in the military and being in the know. I figured that's what you were referencing. Damn civies

edit

I get where you are coming from. We do fly German flags at US bases in Germany. Same goes for Japanese flags. Those both represent some pretty horrific stuff in the past.

That being said I dont think there are any active USMC bases (Forts) that were Confederate. I believe the closest they get is NAS Pensacola and Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.
Thank you for your service...
 
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#89
#89
I never mean it in a derogatory way. When I read Ras's post I immediately thought US naval jack, not the English flag...because thats what I was used to.
You had 2 or so others try to correct you and you were pretty antagonistic.
 
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#93
#93
Guess that's part of being in the military and being in the know. I figured that's what you were referencing. Damn civies

edit

I get where you are coming from. We do fly German flags at US bases in Germany. Same goes for Japanese flags. Those both represent some pretty horrific stuff in the past.

That being said I dont think there are any active USMC bases (Forts) that were Confederate. I believe the closest they get is NAS Pensacola and Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.
It’s not the same German or Japanese flag that is associated with the atrocities.
 
#94
#94
It’s not the same German or Japanese flag that is associated with the atrocities.
True of the German flag. Gets a little more complicated with the Japanese flag, I think. The official Japanese flag changed around the start of the millennium by changing the positioning of the red dot. Before that, they had had the same flag for over a hundred years.

Different situation after WWII. Germany was a regime change, while Japan was not. Japan stopped using some of their flags associated with WWII, but kept their official flag.
 
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#95
#95
iu
 
#96
#96
Which is more than stupid. I'll get to that momentarily.

The Commandant made a decision to remove the Confederate stuff from his bases. Ok, that's within his purview and authority to do so. My question would be the "why" such a thing was necessary. The article had referenced several incidents over the past several years. But it's not showing whether there was an uptick in such incidents compared to say the last 20-30 years. Every service has it's knuckleheads and every service is going to bounce someone for being a racist. I want to know if the trend is growing upwards or this was purely a move to appease the social justice warriors and show "we're doing something".

On to the main point, the idea the bases named after CSA leadership being renamed because of the side they supported in a Civil War is idiotic at best and poor taste at worst. Most of those Officers who's namesake is being used were loyal Union Officers well before being Confederate Officers and those who decided to be loyal to their individual states at the outbreak of the war. Robert E. Lee even opposed secession from the Union and only picked a side after heavy consideration. The country was a radically different place back in those times as the individual states had almost as much power as the federal government and soldiers were Virginians or Georgians first, Americans second. Most of the units involved didn't identify themselves as "United States Army" or "Confederate States Army", but instead the "3rd New York Volunteer Infantry Regiment of the Union Army" or "1st Alabama Cavalry of the Confederate Army." Unified national units only came out after the Civil War. State loyalty was first, national loyalty second in the minds of most which is why many fought for the Confederacy. They didn't fight to preserve slavery, they fought to preserve their homes against what they considered was an external threat.

Not even remembering, or more likely not mentioning, most of those figures were pardoned or granted amnesty by either President Lincoln and Johnson after the war.

No matter what, the different bases have made legacies for themselves now rather than their namesake. If someone was to bring up Fort Bragg in conversation, people would probably think "Airborne" first and not even have the first clue who General Braxton Bragg was. Or mention Fort Polk to any Army member and they automatically associate it with misery instead of with a Confederate General. I'd bet most people have zero clue who the bases are named after and only a select few would only get offended after learning Fort Hood was named for a Confederate General. Because those are the types that are always searching for something to be offended about.

If social justice warriors get offended over the namesake of a base, they really have no life and should shut up.
GrandVol is that you?
 
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#97
#97
I don’t. People that rep the confederate flag are generally (not all) inbred, backwardsass, racist, rednecks. I’m talking about the ones that go out of their way to wear it or display it. I don’t feel that way at all people who display the American flag.
That's because you're an anti-American communist. You would have no problems if the American flag was gone.
 
#98
#98
That's because you're an anti-American communist. You would have no problems if the American flag was gone.
So everyone you disagree with is an anti-American communist? If you took offense by what Roustabout said, you might be an inbred, backwardsass, racist, redneck.
 
#99
#99
That's because you're an anti-American communist. You would have no problems if the American flag was gone.
You’ve lost your friggin mind. That is why I’d never fly a rebel flag. I’m an American. The south LOST. Flying a confederate flag is about as anti American as it gets.

Calling me a communist is about the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever said on this forum. But, like most people today, you go off half cocked without any consideration that you might not know what then he’ll you’re talking about.
Well done!!
 
You’ve lost your friggin mind. That is why I’d never fly a rebel flag. I’m an American. The south LOST. Flying a confederate flag is about as anti American as it gets.

Calling me a communist is about the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever said on this forum. But, like most people today, you go off half cocked without any consideration that you might not know what then he’ll you’re talking about.
Well done!!
This sounds exactly like something an anti-American commie would say.

Commie
 

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