College football is about offense? Not so fast my friend

#2
#2
I'm not aware of anybody who claims defense "doesn't matter." I do think that the balance in the game has flipped though. For a long time, if you wanted to win championships, you needed to have an awesome defense and your offense couldn't be bad. Today, if you want to win championships you need to have an awesome offense and your defense can't be bad. Defense is now about getting stops in the red zone and creating turnovers; it isn't necessarily about stopping yards, especially stopping yards between the 20s. DCs openly admit this.

2021 UGA is an exception to this; they won a title predominantly because of their defense, but look at the other national title winners over the last decade.
 
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#3
#3
05_never_again said:
I'm not aware of anybody who claims defense "doesn't matter." I do think that the balance in the game has flipped though. For a long time, if you wanted to win championships, you needed to have an awesome defense and your offense couldn't be bad. Today, if you want to win championships you need to have an awesome offense and your defense can't be bad. Defense is now about getting stops in the red zone and creating turnovers; it isn't necessarily about stopping yards, especially stopping yards between the 20s. DCs openly admit this.

2021 UGA is an exception to this; they won a title predominantly because of their defense, but look at the other national title winners over the last decade.
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Agree. 2011 and 2017 Alabama weren't putting up the video game numbers like now tho but their defenses were outstanding.
 
#4
#4
BigOrangeTrain said:
I have seen many on here talk about how CF is now about offense. That defense really doesn’t matter. The old adage that offense sells tickets and defense wins championships is dead. Sorry but defense is very important.

College football defenses finally claw back as some offensive averages reach lowest points in a decade
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It's a constant cycle, people who ever form the opinion that one side ever will permanently have the advantage over the other haven't been around long enough.
 
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#5
#5
05_never_again said:
I'm not aware of anybody who claims defense "doesn't matter." I do think that the balance in the game has flipped though. For a long time, if you wanted to win championships, you needed to have an awesome defense and your offense couldn't be bad. Today, if you want to win championships you need to have an awesome offense and your defense can't be bad. Defense is now about getting stops in the red zone and creating turnovers; it isn't necessarily about stopping yards, especially stopping yards between the 20s. DCs openly admit this.

2021 UGA is an exception to this; they won a title predominantly because of their defense, but look at the other national title winners over the last decade.
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Either way still works, dominant defense/good offense or dominant offense/good defense. DC's without the talent will admit what you say because, what choice do they have? Not many programs have the opportunity to deploy a front 7 like UGA did, but if you can, stopping the run and harassing the passer still reduces even the best offenses margin for error to nearly zero, as it always has. We've got to get much better at getting after the quarterback and being stout on the LOS. That's the main stride we need to make to be a contender, our offense will be good enough to beat most folks.
 
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#6
#6
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Either way still works, dominant defense/good offense or dominant offense/good defense. DC's without the talent will admit what you say because, what choice do they have? Not many programs have the opportunity to deploy a front 7 like UGA did, but if you can, stopping the run and harassing the passer still reduces even the best offenses margin for error to nearly zero, as it always has. We've got to get much better at getting after the quarterback and being stout on the LOS. That's the main stride we need to make to be a contender, our offense will be good enough to beat most folks.
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Either way still works if you have a defense as good as UGA's, which appeared to be a once-in-a-generation defense. That was one of the best college defenses of all-time, most likely.

DCs without talent aren't the only ones who say that either. I've even heard Saban allude to it multiple times. "Stopping explosive plays," "create turnovers," and "stop 'em in the red zone" are cliches at this point. Those last 2 quotes in particular are evidence of the philosophical change; in years past turnovers were seen more as a by-product of good defensive play and not something that you specifically sought to create. Now they are, because it is so damn hard to prevent teams from gaining yards. Defense focus on shutting down teams in the red zone because it is easier (less space to cover) and the rules/way the game is officiated encourage offense.
 
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#7
#7
05_never_again said:
Either way still works if you have a defense as good as UGA's, which appeared to be a once-in-a-generation defense. That was one of the best college defenses of all-time, most likely.

DCs without talent aren't the only ones who say that either. I've even heard Saban allude to it multiple times. "Stopping explosive plays," "create turnovers," and "stop 'em in the red zone" are cliches at this point. Those last 2 quotes in particular are evidence of the philosophical change; in years past turnovers were seen more as a by-product of good defensive play and not something that you specifically sought to create. Now they are, because it is so damn hard to prevent teams from gaining yards. Defense focus on shutting down teams in the red zone because it is easier (less space to cover) and the rules/way the game is officiated encourage offense.
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"Create turnovers" and "stop'em in the redzone" is what coaches whose defenses are bad have said since time immemorial. Those options are like running in the event of trouble, and like the guy in Tremors said "running ain't a plan, running is what you do when a plan fails". If you ever have a DC saying that kind of stuff in fall camp, as a fan you need to prepare for your defense to be very bad. I said last year before the year that Banks saying that kind of stuff made me suspect the defense was bad and it was. Heupel recently said something to the effect that third down defense and getting a better pass rush was the thing they had really honed in on after looking at the tape of last season, which could have moved us from 7 wins to 10. Being really outstanding on either side of the ball is a championship formula but you've got to be a complete football team that is good in all three areas regardless. People act like UGA's offense sucked, they averaged 38.6 points per game, which was 3rd in the conference, we were second at 39.3.
 
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#8
#8
One of the narratives was you have to have great QB play to win a NC. Bennet is far from great. He isn’t in the stratosphere of the most recent winners like Tua, Lawrence, Burrow or Hurts. It just goes to show that even in todays college football landscape, a truly elite defense will win championships.
 
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#9
#9
BigOrangeTrain said:
One of the narratives was you have to have great QB play to win a NC. Bennet is far from great. He isn’t in the stratosphere of the most recent winners like Tua, Lawrence, Burrow or Hurts. It just goes to show that even in todays college football landscape, a truly elite defense will win championships.
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Bennett doesn't have alot of pro potential because of his size but he's way better than most people give him credit for. He runs a 4.5 and was 4th nationally in QBR for the season.

cfbstats.com - 2021 National Player Leaders
 
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#10
#10
Tennessee Titans say"Hold my beer and watch these 9 sacks"😂😂😂....Ole TannaChoke and his interceptions single handily lost that game.I like Tanny don't get me wrong either,random not thread related facts lol.
 
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#12
#12
Mtnvol80 said:
Agree. 2011 and 2017 Alabama weren't putting up the video game numbers like now tho but their defenses were outstanding.
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You know 2017 Bama scored 40 points per during the regular season right?……2011 they averaged 36, and that’s even with the terrible offensive LSU game when they scored 6.
 
#13
#13
unfrozencvmanvol said:
It's a constant cycle, people who ever form the opinion that one side ever will permanently have the advantage over the other haven't been around long enough.
Click to expand...

Yup and the pendulum has swung back in favor of the D.
 
#14
#14
Defense has always been there and been the backbone it’s just the flashy O has come to the forefront the past 10-15 years IMO. Plus the athletes are getting better and better every year and there’s only 11 positions on offense.
 
#15
#15
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Bennett doesn't have alot of pro potential because of his size but he's way better than most people give him credit for. He runs a 4.5 and was 4th nationally in QBR for the season.

cfbstats.com - 2021 National Player Leaders
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He is far from a great QB though. He isn’t as good as Hooker. Like I said, he isn’t in the same stratosphere as guys like Tua, Lawrence or Burrow. Bennett is a good QB. But put quite a few other QBs on UGA and they would likely be much better.
 
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#16
#16
Defense is for the week. Offense is for the weekends. Just keep scoring and let the other team worry about catching up.

Plenty of room for improvement on both sides of the ball.
 
#18
#18
JoAllan said:
You know 2017 Bama scored 40 points per during the regular season right?……2011 they averaged 36, and that’s even with the terrible offensive LSU game when they scored 6.
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I do but both teams were only putting up about 440 yards ppg which is dang good, don't get me wrong, but it's meh compared to other champions recently. That 2011 defense was out of this world and 17 was pretty dang good. Field position was a big reason they put those points up plus defensive scores. Both QBs those years only threw for about 2800 which is nothing now. Bennet 2800 but again had an elite defense behind him. Tua threw for 4800 in 2018 and hardly played any in the 4th quarter. Mac Jones threw for 5000. Burrow 5600. Watson 4600.
 
#19
#19
BigOrangeTrain said:
One of the narratives was you have to have great QB play to win a NC. Bennet is far from great. He isn’t in the stratosphere of the most recent winners like Tua, Lawrence, Burrow or Hurts. It just goes to show that even in todays college football landscape, a truly elite defense will win championships.
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Yeah but Bennett is still good. He's not first round but he's a good QB.

You can win championships with an elite defense... so long as your QB is good.
 
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#20
#20
Bennett is a good, not great quarterback, that is a good game manager. He is able to scramble out of trouble many times simply because his offensive line is able to keep the defense from getting much push. As good as Georgia's defense was last season, their offense was no slouch either.
 
#21
#21
There's an element of truth in both sides of these arguments. Maybe it isn't one or the other so much as finding the right balance between the two for a particular roster? Then, it comes down to coaching and decisions.

The tilt has recently been toward offense but then again there was a shift in style of play over the last 10 years or so. Defenses will eventually catch up. Efforts to do that have already re-shaped the physical attributes of the 11 guys on the field at any given time. It wasn't that long ago that everyone played most downs with 3 legitimate LB's. Now there's usually two and then whatever you call your hybrid. At some point... someone discovers that a true FB can usually blow that "star" off the LOS... and the cycle starts again.
 
#22
#22
unfrozencvmanvol said:
"Create turnovers" and "stop'em in the redzone" is what coaches whose defenses are bad have said since time immemorial. Those options are like running in the event of trouble, and like the guy in Tremors said "running ain't a plan, running is what you do when a plan fails". If you ever have a DC saying that kind of stuff in fall camp, as a fan you need to prepare for your defense to be very bad. I said last year before the year that Banks saying that kind of stuff made me suspect the defense was bad and it was. Heupel recently said something to the effect that third down defense and getting a better pass rush was the thing they had really honed in on after looking at the tape of last season, which could have moved us from 7 wins to 10. Being really outstanding on either side of the ball is a championship formula but you've got to be a complete football team that is good in all three areas regardless. People act like UGA's offense sucked, they averaged 38.6 points per game, which was 3rd in the conference, we were second at 39.3.
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Correct. Now all DCs say it, because the game has changed. The powers that be want offense, the game has an offensive bias, and defenses have adjusted accordingly.
 
#23
#23
05_never_again said:
Correct. Now all DCs say it, because the game has changed. The powers that be want offense, the game has an offensive bias, and defenses have adjusted accordingly.
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No, I disagree that all DC's say it, just the ones without confidence their unit can stop anyone.

We were just 90th in scoring defense, giving up more than twice as many points as the best defense not named Georgia. That's got to improve drastically for us to take the next step, drastically.

National Champion, Scoring Defense Rank, the last 13 seasons:

21' UGA, #1
20' Bama, #8
19' LSU, #31
18' Clemson, #1
17' Bama, #1
16' Clemson, #10
15', Bama,#2
14', Ohio State, #26
13', Florida State, #1
12' Bama, #1
11' Bama, #1
10' Auburn, # 53
09' Bama, #2

So 3 out of the last 5 national championships have gone to the team with the #1 scoring defense. 8 of the last 13 have gone to either the # 1 or # 2 scoring defense. 10 of the last 13 have gone to teams with a Top 10 scoring defense. Defense is far from dead. Of the outliers here 19' LSU and 14' Ohio State both had defenses that improved alot during the year and we're playing at a pretty high level by crunch time. Auburn 2010 is probably the worst defense I ever remember winning the natty. Cam was a generational player and fortunately he came along for Auburn right when he did, I don't think that team wins it all any other year in this time period.
 
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#24
#24
BigOrangeTrain said:
He is far from a great QB though. He isn’t as good as Hooker. Like I said, he isn’t in the same stratosphere as guys like Tua, Lawrence or Burrow. Bennett is a good QB. But put quite a few other QBs on UGA and they would likely be much better.
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Bennett doesn't have pro potential because he's too little, but he's pretty good for the college level, he's 4th in QBR nationally and Hooker's 3rd. Bennett's also proven he can make plays in the biggest games at the highest level, he was MVP of both playoff games, there's pro quarterbacks who haven't proved that. I hope Kirby benches him and starts one of their 5 star freshmen like idiot UGA fans want. Maybe then he'll transfer. He's kicked our butt 2 years in a row, I'd just as soon see someone else.
 
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#25
#25
unfrozencvmanvol said:
No, I disagree that all DC's say it, just the ones without confidence their unit can stop anyone.

We were just 90th in scoring defense, giving up more than twice as many points as the best defense not named Georgia. That's got to improve drastically for us to take the next step, drastically.

National Champion, Scoring Defense Rank, the last 13 seasons:

21' UGA, #1
20' Bama, #8
19' LSU, #31
18' Clemson, #1
17' Bama, #1
16' Clemson, #10
15', Bama,#2
14', Ohio State, #26
13', Florida State, #1
12' Bama, #1
11' Bama, #1
10' Auburn, # 53
09' Bama, #2

So 3 out of the last 5 national championships have gone to the team with the #1 scoring defense. 8 of the last 13 have gone to either the # 1 or # 2 scoring defense. 10 of the last 13 have gone to teams with a Top 10 scoring defense. Defense is far from dead. Of the outliers here 19' LSU and 14' both had defenses that improved alot during the year and we're playing at a pretty high level by crunch time. Auburn 2010 is probably the worst defense I ever remember winning the natty. Cam was a generational player and fortunately he came along for Auburn right when he did, I don't think that team wins it all any other year in this time period.
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your looking at merely the top of the top.

How many teams are going to be on a Bama or Georgia level?…….very, very few.

As Tennessee’s coach has shown it’s quite easy to get “better” and to become competitive simply from an O scheme……..you want to do that with D……it ain’t happening, your probably going to need some time and studs (for the most part).

Not many folks claiming D is dead. Just simply the game has changed and it has. In order for everyone else to try and catch up and to just be competitive……they need O (again for the most part).

21 Georgia had the 9th rated O -
20 Bama had the #2 rated O
19 LSU had the #1 rated O
18 Clemson had the 4th rated O
So on and so on.

Again not that just the National Championship winning team means everything or anything (in this context)……….but they have been having some great offenses too.

They simply have the players.
 
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