coast guard stops ships.

#26
#26
DC Vol said:
No, it was not a nuance.

This is a paramount emergency. Agreed... but best estimates state this spill will continue for at least another 60 days.


60 days.


Not the same as my house on fire, but I appreciate your touch of dramatic flair. The firemen would be duely appointed professions trained for that response. This would be like my neighbor being mad they could turn on their garden hose to try to help me put it out... but the situations aren't really comparable.


About the firefight issue: That would be a SSgt inspecting the state of body armor, operability of rifles, physical and mental condition of his troops and knowledge of the ROEs before moving to a FOB. The oil spill is a "sustained conflict" not a "firefight".

Do you understand now? It wasn't just a personnel safety issue. They were ensuring the barges were constructed for what they were going to be used for. That is not a nuance.
Click to expand...

Okay, so neighborhoods will continue to burn and the fire will grow for 60 more days.

Ya, totally different.
 
#27
#27
IPorange said:
Haha, it would have to be a hell of a leaky barge to leak more oil than it took out of the water. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, if that is really the concern.
Click to expand...

If there is a structural fault that could, if the ship was caught by a storm, cause the barge to split if put under enough stress (due to possibly not being constructed to handle that much weight in crude oil).

There are also some very particular ways for oil to be insulated within a tanker (ironically enough learned about that through a Modern Marvels show about them) that the USCG was also possibly inspecting for compliance on.

The article didn't state much about the USCG's inspection except that the primary holdup seemed to that the USCG was needing to track down the manufacturer to get detailed specs about the barges capabilities. At least that's my assumption and that could be the only reason the USCG would need to contact the manufacturer.
 
#29
#29
a barge not designed to handle a lot of weight?

surely you can't be serious?
 
#30
#30
DC Vol said:
This is a paramount emergency. Agreed... but best estimates state this spill will continue for at least another 60 days.


60 days.




Not the same as my house on fire, but I appreciate your touch of dramatic flair.
Click to expand...

Yet the oil damage occurs at very specific times. When the oil is knocking on the door of the marsh it doesn't matter that it will continue for 60 more days. If you delay 24 hours you allow preventable harm in exchange for a small chance that you prevent an accident.

Further, if the spill is going to be ongoing and presumably the barges will be used for weeks to come why not inspect them one at a time so you allow the vast majority of prevention to occur.

In short the risk of taking them all offline at a critical time far outweighs that risk that they are not up to regs and as a result someone gets hurt.
 
#31
#31
DC Vol said:
So you think anyone with a water hose should be allowed to put out a fire?

Okay, buddy.
Click to expand...

If my house is on fire and the fire marshall put the trucks on hold to ensure respirators were working properly then hell yes.

I'll spray, hope my neighbors spray and maybe a couple dogs take a whiz on it.
 
#32
#32
volinbham said:
Yet the oil damage occurs at very specific times. When the oil is knocking on the door of the marsh it doesn't matter that it will continue for 60 more days. If you delay 24 hours you allow preventable harm in exchange for a small chance that you prevent an accident.

Further, if the spill is going to be ongoing and presumably the barges will be used for weeks to come why not inspect them one at a time so you allow the vast majority of prevention to occur.

In short the risk of taking them all offline at a critical time far outweighs that risk that they are not up to regs and as a result someone gets hurt.
Click to expand...

I never said that the USCG didn't make mistakes or that they made a flawless decision here.

They do have every right, and should, to ensure that any oil containing vessel sitting within US coastal waters meets strict guidelines.

That's their job. Yeah, they should have staggered the barges after contacting the manufacturer and individually inspected each barge while allowing those cleared to do their jobs.

I'm not arguing against Jindal's decision (in fact I applaud it) to send the barges out. I simply was saying that the USCG has the responsibility to maintain maritime regulations and safety even though this is a drastic event.

Jindal should have contacted the USCG about his intents and the USCG would have checked their (dutifully apportioned) boxes and this wouldn't have been an issue.
 
#33
#33
volinbham said:
If my house is on fire and the fire marshall put the trucks on hold to ensure respirators were working properly then hell yes.

I'll spray, hope my neighbors spray and maybe a couple dogs take a whiz on it.
Click to expand...

That's on you. Lets hypothetically say that you're liable for any injuries they incur while trying to put out your house fire.

Are you still that anxious?
 
#34
#34
DC Vol said:
Jindal should have contacted the USCG about his intents and the USCG would have checked their (dutifully apportioned) boxes and this wouldn't have been an issue.
Click to expand...

Not clear that he didn't do this. Some comments from the article:

The governor said the problem is there's still no single person giving a "yes" or "no." While the Gulf Coast governors have developed plans with the Coast Guard's command center in the Gulf, things begin to shift when other agencies start weighing in, like the Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

"It's like this huge committee down there," Riley said, "and every decision that we try to implement, any one person on that committee has absolute veto power."
Click to expand...
 
#35
#35
DC Vol said:
That's on you. Lets hypothetically say that you're liable for any injuries they incur while trying to put out your house fire.

Are you still that anxious?
Click to expand...

First, the CG wouldn't be liable.

Second, yes if my house was burning down I'd have no problem if my neighbors were helping me put it out.

Likewise, I would help my neighbors.
 
#36
#36
volinbham said:
First, the CG wouldn't be liable.

Second, yes if my house was burning down I'd have no problem if my neighbors were helping me put it out.

Likewise, I would help my neighbors.
Click to expand...

you would make sure that their water hoses weren't leaking, their water pressure was adequate and that the nozzles were of an appropriately water conserving design, right?

the bureaucracy must be preserved, regardless of the situation
 
#37
#37
MG1968 said:
you would make sure that their water hoses weren't leaking, their water pressure was adequate and that the nozzles were of an appropriately water conserving design, right?

the bureaucracy must be preserved, regardless of the situation
Click to expand...

Yes, because water pressure and consumption in a garden hose is exactly the same thing as ensuring that equipment being used off-shore is specifically designed for it's purpose.

We got in this situation due to a company skirting safety regulations and working fast and loose. Why not exacerbate the situation by doing the same thing? The USCG was happy with the information the manufacturer provided as well as the individuals on the barge.. and they returned to work. The USCG had every reason to ensure those barges met standards.

If you were in charge of the evacuation of Hanoi... I'm sure you would have ignored max takeoff and max stability weight of the helos and aircraft taking part in it due to it being an "emergency", right? I mean.. those are just safety nuances and not directly relating to what the equipment was designed and built to do, right?
 
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#38
#38
do you have the article saying they were inspecting the oil removal gear/barges themselves because all the story linked say is

"We are all in this together. The enemy is the oil," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Dan Lauer.

But the Coast Guard ordered the stoppage because of reasons that Jindal found frustrating. The Coast Guard needed to confirm that there were fire extinguishers and life vests on board, and then it had trouble contacting the people who built the barges.
Click to expand...
 
#39
#39
DC Vol said:
Yes, because water pressure and consumption in a garden hose is exactly the same thing as ensuring that equipment being used off-shore is specifically designed for it's purpose.

We got in this situation due to a company skirting safety regulations and working fast and loose. Why not exacerbate the situation by doing the same thing? The USCG was happy with the information the manufacturer provided as well as the individuals on the barge.. and they returned to work. The USCG had every reason to ensure those barges met standards.

If you were in charge of the evacuation of Hanoi... I'm sure you would have ignored max takeoff and max stability weight of the helos and aircraft taking part in it due to it being an "emergency", right? I mean.. those are just safety nuances and not directly relating to what the equipment was designed and built to do, right?
Click to expand...


What on earth is the risk if the barges are not exactly designed for the purpose?

How can they do more damage then the damage they may prevent?

The fact that they passed inspection so quickly tells you the risk was never large to begin with. As a result, LA lost 24 hours of oil getting into places it's very difficult to get to.

Every tool has to be designed exactly for a specific purpose? Hell, they are using ShopVacs in LA and it's better than nothing.
 
#40
#40
DC Vol said:
Yes, because water pressure and consumption in a garden hose is exactly the same thing as ensuring that equipment being used off-shore is specifically designed for it's purpose.

We got in this situation due to a company skirting safety regulations and working fast and loose. Why not exacerbate the situation by doing the same thing? The USCG was happy with the information the manufacturer provided as well as the individuals on the barge.. and they returned to work. The USCG had every reason to ensure those barges met standards.

If you were in charge of the evacuation of Hanoi... I'm sure you would have ignored max takeoff and max stability weight of the helos and aircraft taking part in it due to it being an "emergency", right? I mean.. those are just safety nuances and not directly relating to what the equipment was designed and built to do, right?
Click to expand...

so, you're now equating life jackets and fire extinguishers being present on oil-skimming barges to the evacuation of Hanoi?

you've adequately defended the USCG's incomprehensible logic, there's no point in getting stupid about it.
 
#41
#41
utvolpj said:
do you have the article saying they were inspecting the oil removal gear/barges themselves because all the story linked say is
Click to expand...

I already stated I'm making an assumption as it, to me, would be logical to ensure the barges were specifically designed to hold oil. And I also stated that if it were for something asinine relating to the size of the Captain's Quarters I would happily withdraw my opinions and would be in full agreement.

While safety standards are important to abide by, the cease-and-desist until all were inspected and cleared is out of line.
 
#42
#42
MG1968 said:
so, you're now equating life jackets and fire extinguishers being present on oil-skimming barges to the evacuation of Hanoi?

you've adequately defended the USCG's incomprehensible logic, there's no point in getting stupid about it.
Click to expand...

He should really get out of DC more often, bureaurocratic
dogma has ruined his ability to think rationally.

ObamaDebtStar.jpg
 
#44
#44
utvolpj said:
do you have the article saying they were inspecting the
oil removal gear/barges themselves because all the story
linked say is..........
Click to expand...

Barry's only solution is to build more windmills, his administration is
doing everything it possibly can to make this as bad as it can be
and then use it for a political football.

News Headlines

Machines that separate oil from water—even allowing the oil to be
refined later—can be on-site in the Gulf of Mexico within days,
Jean-Michel Cousteau, president and founder of the Ocean Futures
Society, told CBNC Thursday.
-----------------------

Cousteau, the son of legendary sea explorer and ecologist, Jacques
Cousteau, said there are 24 to 26 units that are ready to
go and in the region.
Click to expand...


HIGGS: Will oil drilling become a pipe dream? - Washington Times

If President Obama's Oval Office speech made one thing clear,
it is that his administration and the activists who back it view
the Gulf oil spill as simply an opportunity to advance
their pre-existing agenda - which has nothing to do
with cleaning up the Gulf, protecting the fragile coastal
environment or fostering the region's economy.
Click to expand...
 
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#46
#46
gsvol said:
You and ACLG are the pros in those two categories. :hi:
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

I'm a communist/socialist/muslim/usurper through and through.

Those are the latest sheep words that Limbaugh is attempting to spread, right?
 
#47
#47
im glad they are checking fire related items on the boats. Im sure a fire on the oil slick would really help the situation.
 
#48
#48
I haven't had a chance to read everybody's response since my last comment, but I wanted to add that from what I can tell from the article, it sounds like the 24 hour USCG hold up of the barges would have gone on much longer had Gov. Jindal not raised cane with the WH and leaked the story to the press.
 
#49
#49
DC Vol said:
:thumbsup:

I'm a communist/socialist/muslim/usurper through and through.

Those are the latest sheep words that Limbaugh is attempting to spread, right?
Click to expand...

If you say you are a communist/socialist/muslim/usurper that is what you say, I wouldn't know.

If you listen to Limbaugh at all you listen more than I, again I would have no idea what he is saying.

It is painfully obvious to even the most casueal observer that you are so wrapped up in red tape that you can't shoot straight, generally take the dhimmirat take on things and can't discuss anything without taking cheap shots at other posters.






J-P said:
I haven't had a chance to read everybody's response since my last comment, but I wanted to add that from what I can tell from the article, it sounds like the 24 hour USCG hold up of the barges would have gone on much longer had Gov. Jindal not raised cane with the WH and leaked the story to the press.
Click to expand...

The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : Jindal's Moment

Meanwhile, Jindal's operation to dredge up sand and build artificial islands to capture the oil and protect the coastline is underway, after he fought to gain approval from the White House.
Click to expand...

There absolutely no excuse for taking two months to give approval for this simple operation. There are some people in governmental positions that should be held criminally liable.

Now that oil is coming ashore in wetlands and folks who cultivate oyster beds have been ruined for perhaps generations we finally get approval. Inane and insane!!!




While Obama is giving a rambling national speech in which he's talking about landing a man on the moon and our new energy future, Jindal is constantly coming up with ideas to at least mitigate the disaster at hand.
Click to expand...

Methinks Barry is talking more about the man in the moon than man on the moon, anyway the moobats are eating it up like cotton candy.

The list of failures of the Obama administration to effectively meet this event is exaustive, going back to even before the blow out, but especially every last day since it happened.
 
#50
#50
gsvol said:
If you say you are a communist/socialist/muslim/usurper that is what you say, I wouldn't know.

If you listen to Limbaugh at all you listen more than I, again I would have no idea what he is saying.

It is painfully obvious to even the most casueal observer that you are so wrapped up in red tape that you can't shoot straight, generally take the dhimmirat take on things and can't discuss anything without taking cheap shots at other posters.
Click to expand...

I take cheap shots at you simply because it's fun. You're intensely delusional and one of the most arrogantly presumptuous people I've met.

I don't take you seriously.

This will be the only serious reply I think I'll ever shoot your way.

Enjoy your life tucked away in your secluded cabin with your 12 cats.
 
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