Coaching, Recruiting, Depth, & Expectations

#26
#26
PEPPERJAX said:
Agreed, quality recruiting and building depth are very important and the staff is doing that. The biggest problem I see is closing out these games. Is that depth or coaching?
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Both, and please remember, Just like his players are CBJ is learning how to win in the SEC to. He'll make the adjustments. He's only been a HC for I believe 6 years. I don't think that qualifies him as a seasoned coach. He's still mastering his craft as well.
 
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#27
#27
valoisvol said:
Good post, we are no different than SMU when they got the death penalty they're still not back. People have to realize we are four recruiting years behind everyone else. So until Butch gets his four years, don't complain
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This is so laughably untrue. Dooley was a bad coach, but it's not like he was just bringing in high school scrubs. All of his classes ranked in the top 25. Next year is Butch's 4th year unless you want to give him a year 0. Butch has brought in top classes but he's also lost an alarming number of players. His pitch had been "come here and you can play early" which is why a lot of the kids that aren't starting have chosen to leave. Can't build up a team of red shirt upperclassmen if they leave when you try to red shirt them
 
#28
#28
I agree, OP. Our Vols play hard throughout the game, though depth issues keep them from being fresh enough to play like they did in Q1. Recruiting is going well whether you look at stars or at the performance/contributions of lower ranked players. Our guys are performing in the classroom and for the most part on the street.

Can we improve more, perform better, be more consistent, close the deal, manage the clock better? Sure! But the difference between now and when Butch et al arrived is VAST and clearly evident.

It takes time to build a talented, experienced squad, and even longer to build a program that can reload rather than rebuild because it also has depth.
 
#29
#29
Just because somebody scores on our D in the second half doesn't mean they made a halftime adjustment that left our staff and players befuddled. Please stop spreading this nonsense throughout this public place.
 
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#30
#30
Volitourt said:
Great post - I went to the Bama game and watched our kids COMPETE against a process that has been in place for over 8 years - not 3 - and their process has provided 8 years of top 3 signing classes - they rotate 14 mostly 23 year old grown men on their front seven - we can play with anybody with our starting 22 - especially when healthy - just imagine rotating redshirt Juniors and Seniors in the near future - it is happening folks.
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And we were ahead by 6 with two minutes left. Only a couple of NFL caliber clutch catches cost us the game.

Compare that performance with what LSU did against the Tide last Saturday.

Also, compare that to the 27 points we spotted them in the first half last year. Yup, gotta agree.
 
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#31
#31
SmokeyFTW said:
I'll begin by saying depth is what we're missing.


He's already recruited well, coached those recruits up, implemented his system, and shown these youngsters what he expects out of them.

The next step is to continue to recruit well, and continue to do the same things that's made us competitive so early. So that we can have depth behind these young starters and become a deep and developed team. Many ignore this. He's only in year 3. He's had 2 years of good recruiting and developing players.That's only enough time to give this team a solid starting rotation in year 3. We now have that, and imagine if didn't have the injuries we've had. He needs to continue the "process" to develop the depth in year 3 and 4. That's why 2016 was always going to be the year we possibly compete for the East, but everyone bought into the hype. I'm glad we're competing in every game this year, and the fans expectations have changed. We now expect to win the easy ones, and expect to be in the game at the end against the top teams. That's happening! That shows what he is doing is working. Adding depth will put us over that hump, and help us win the close ones in the 4th. People hate to be patient, but patience is what it's going to take. Keep the faith people. He's doing a great job.

Oh and on a side note. Coaches don't just stop learning. I'm confident in saying CBJ learns and takes something away from every game. I'm sure he knows he can be a better coach, learn from the mistakes, and develop himself into the great coach he wants to be for this university. He's not perfect, but he deserves the respect of the fans. Let him finish what he's started, because I believe we'll love the end result.

Also I'm not personally trying to call anyone on volnation out. Just trying to share my opinion, and maybe let people see something in a different perspective.

Thanks for reading, and Go Vols!!!
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Depending on who all returns, if everyone did, our year could be 2017
 
#32
#32
And another reason why this recruiting class is so important ... As OP said coaches w a tough job w the player makeup we have right now. Can u imagine that your 18-19 yo for most positions are your best players , you have 3-5 year guys that are playing their hearts out too , plus the young guys just not physically or mentally ready for 4 quarters of SEC football.

Butch has / is doing a better job than he is being given credit fo sho
 
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#33
#33
coachwgh said:
Just because somebody scores on our D in the second half doesn't mean they made a halftime adjustment that left our staff and players befuddled. Please stop spreading this nonsense throughout this public place.
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i don't recall anyone saying that...well, at least not me.

howevuh....i think you're missing the point of that argument....

it's not that the other team scores, it's our inability to score with the same frequency and regularity that we do in the 1st halves of games.

there's another thread about "Tennessee best 1st half team" going on right now that deals with this issue in depth pretty well. i would suggest checking it out.

anyway, the issue with the 2nd half adjustments, is more about using what is learned from the 1st half script later in the game. there's too much evidence out there that suggests two things:
1. they do a really great job of game planning and preparing for the opponent.
2. they are not the quickest at making adjustments offensively based on what has happened, or is happening as a result of the opponent's adjustments.


1st half offensive production is night and day better than 2nd half.

so either we're not doing anything to adjust, or everyone else is figuring it out as the game goes on.
 
#35
#35
jakez4ut said:
...

1st half offensive production is night and day better than 2nd half.

so either we're not doing anything to adjust, or everyone else is figuring it out as the game goes on.
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Or our guys are getting gassed faster than theirs, like maybe we don't have the same depth.

Or our guys are getting gassed faster than theirs, like maybe ours haven't been through as many years of college-level S&C development.

There are a number of ways to interpret the anomalous 1st Half vs 2nd Half results we've seen this season. Coaching adjustments (and/or lack thereof) is only one of those several variables.

Given that we know for a fact we don't yet have the depth of other teams, I'd look in that direction first.

Truth be told, though, it's probably a mix of all these factors--coaching, experience, depth, physical development and maturation. Just a question of which ones are most prevalent.
 
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#36
#36
Butch is turning into a modern day Johnny Majors for us. Coach Majors built the foundation for TN to become relevant again and Butch is doing the same thing. Brick by Brick is the only way to go when you inherit a dumpster fire like UT was after the douchbag LK and the worse DD. We hired DD and Bama hired Nick Saban, enough said. True fans see the process working and understand that TN will be great again very soon. I hope we get matched up with a Big 10 team in the bowl game and spank their ass like we did Iowa last year.
 
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#37
#37
VFL-82-JP said:
Or our guys are getting gassed faster than theirs, like maybe we don't have the same depth.

Or our guys are getting gassed faster than theirs, like maybe ours haven't been through as many years of college-level S&C development.

There are a number of ways to interpret the anomalous 1st Half vs 2nd Half results we've seen this season. Coaching adjustments (and/or lack thereof) is only one of those several variables.

Given that we know for a fact we don't yet have the depth of other teams, I'd look in that direction first.

Truth be told, though, it's probably a mix of all these factors--coaching, experience, depth, physical development and maturation. Just a question of which ones are most prevalent.
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depth on defense is an issue, no doubt. they are getting gassed.

contributing factor to that....offense can't do squat in the 2nd half. can't get a 1st down when they have to.

that's a concern from a game planning standpoint. we know depth is an issue on defense, so i would expect us to be better able to handle 2nd half to help protect that.

yes, it's all contributing factors, and as i said in the thread i linked, i still believe this is players & coaches.

but there's something to this 2nd half adjustment stuff, and at the very least, is a contributing factor to 2nd half disappearing acts of the offense.
 
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#38
#38
coachwgh said:
Just because somebody scores on our D in the second half doesn't mean they made a halftime adjustment that left our staff and players befuddled. Please stop spreading this nonsense throughout this public place.
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Probably need to check out our stats from 1st to 2nd half and see what they say....:eek:k:

GO VOLS!
 
#40
#40
jkleno said:
When you have a team down by 17, put your foot on their throat and end the game. Watch the New England Pats- they could care less what the score is- they are going to keep playing their game and demolish their opponent. We have to stop letting teams back in games and this is a clear coaching issue. They truly need to progress. I feel our players are there. They have bought in the system. It's time the coaches (mainly OC) to quit playing tight with the lead and crush our opponents. Truthfully, if the USCe TE hadn't fumbled, I feel they were ready to score a TD and we would have LOST. Imagine what would have been written then.
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Dude did you watch the same game as me? The reason USC even got back in the game was because the refs gave them that fumble call in the red zone after the whistle had been blown which allowed them to score.

There was also a clear deep ball touch down pass that was dropped by either Pearson or Malone, I can't remember which, that was thrown perfectly by Dobbs.

USC's defense stepped up in the 2nd half and played a lot better, ours did not. Our secondary got burned.
 
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#41
#41
TreeSnake said:
Some guy wrote an article on the internet. He has to be a football genius with no agenda.

Did you notice in his bio, the number of years he worked under Bill Walsh & Grantland Rice?
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I take it he's not buying into the "positive" speech.
 
#42
#42
There were a numerous recruits last Saturday. Did anyone else see Butch literally hug Ryan Johnson during the Vol Walk? A lot of the players also spoke to him.
 
#43
#43
valoisvol said:
Good post, we are no different than SMU when they got the death penalty they're still not back. People have to realize we are four recruiting years behind everyone else. So until Butch gets his four years, don't complain
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You have to be trolling. Dooley ranked 9th, 13th, and 17th in recruiting. Far from the death penalty. So far that surely you have to be joking to make such a comparison.
 
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#44
#44
The sad thing is, once you factor in all the attrition we've lost, we are actually closer to "Year 2" than we are "Year 3". In the 2014 class we lost 8 of our 4 stars (a lot of talent). In the 2013 class we have already lost 40% from attrition and that was a particularly weak class (no shock there - the 1st class usually is for new HCs). The 2015 class on the other hand, it actually looks like a top 5 class. I consider that Butch's only complete class so far. The previous two equal out to more like 1 big class, at least in terms of talent/depth.
 
#45
#45
Volunteer_Kirby said:
The sad thing is, once you factor in all the attrition we've lost, we are actually closer to "Year 2" than we are "Year 3". In the 2014 class we lost 8 of our 4 stars (a lot of talent). In the 2013 class we have already lost 40% from attrition and that was a particularly weak class (no shock there - the 1st class usually is for new HCs). The 2015 class on the other hand, it actually looks like a top 5 class. I consider that Butch's only complete class so far. The previous two equal out to more like 1 big class, at least in terms of talent/depth.
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All part of the 7 year plan. I'm sure he appreciates the patience displayed by some of you. Everyone has been pounding home the fact that we can judge him next season. Is this no longer the truth? Now does he have a pass from some fans until 2017??
 
#46
#46
DownNDirty said:
All part of the 7 year plan. I'm sure he appreciates the patience displayed by some of you. Everyone has been pounding home the fact that we can judge him next season. Is this no longer the truth? Now does he have a pass from some fans until 2017??
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In reality, he gets judged by every one of us every year. Some just have lower bars for acceptance than others.

For most, though, as long as he continues to show improvement on the field, he'll continue to have support. 5-7 goes to 7-6 goes to 8-5 or 9-4 goes to _____. Fill that in with more than 8 (or 9) wins and, yep, he'll probably have 2017 here as well.

It's all about improvement and progress. Some are just more patient about the rate of progress than others.

[and, of course, some sad sacks have already utterly written the coach off, nothing he does will be enough ... those and the actual trolls who could care less about UT football will continue to keep these forums raw and wriggling no matter whether the progress is fast enough for most of us or not]
 
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#47
#47
good post, the problem is we have to continue to build this depth with high caliper kids and so far this year our recruiting class is not even in the top 15.... I know there is plenty of time left and Butch will give us a last minute Richmond type recruit, but with us probably losing out on guys like Hardman and Davis, we are going to struggle to get a good class this year.
 
#48
#48
coachwgh said:
Just because somebody scores on our D in the second half doesn't mean they made a halftime adjustment that left our staff and players befuddled. Please stop spreading this nonsense throughout this public place.
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Like when South Carolina's coach was asked what adjustments he made at halftime. His reply was to play harder and execute better. Not some miracle adjustment.
 
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#50
#50
How much "depth" do you guys think a team can have? Serious question.

Regardless of where you place blame, and as many of you know I think the staff bears a good bit, few teams could endure the number and significance of the injuries UT has had this year.

In your opinions, was this a sufficiently deep team on August 1? Why? Why not? I submit that if you put Gaulden, Maggitt, Sanders, Jackson, Croom, Tuttle, Butcher, et al back in the active line up then subtract a more normal rate of injury... UT isn't a particularly thin team. Perhaps just a little younger on avg than most opponents... but not that thin. Jones has to figure out why his injury rate is so high and correct it. It does not seem to be possible to be deep enough to absorb this level of injuries every year and win.

I only count a loss of 13 scholarship Srs. I think most estimate the number of '16 signees to be in the 20ish range which must anticipate attrition and not renewing a few walk on scholarships. So if additional depth is needed... where is it coming from? Who on the roster right now is not "depth" now but will be a year from now? Where do those 3rd and 4th players deep come from because they cannot come from the '16 class?


I'm just looking for some clarity on this argument that seems to be made continuously.
 
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