Coach Martin vs. Coach Dooley (merged)

#876
#876
LaagerVol said:
Sunshine pumper imo. jmo.
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Nah, just a realist. I got two kids going to school over there and keep my ear on the financial goings on. IMO I don't think that the program can stand another 4 or 5 million dollar buyout hit and then go and TRY to spend 2 - 3 million to hire this "pie in the sky" coach that a lot of folks seem to think is just waiting to come to UT. That is the only reason that I say 7 wins gets him one year. I think Mike Hart is smart enough to see that things are still unsettled with the coaching changes. Also, if he was to fire Coach DD after next year that the program would be in better condition than it was when he got here but it still isn't where it would need to be for Coach PITS to come in and win immediately like all of the thunderstorm pumpers think that he he would.:peace2:
 
#877
#877
And guys, Small Mike doesn't bother me. I think he is fairly entertaining. Think how boring this thread would be if we didn't have him to kick around?
 
#879
#879
TNGlen said:
Nah, just a realist. I got two kids going to school over there and keep my ear on the financial goings on. IMO I don't think that the program can stand another 4 or 5 million dollar buyout hit and then go and TRY to spend 2 - 3 million to hire this "pie in the sky" coach that a lot of folks seem to think is just waiting to come to UT. That is the only reason that I say 7 wins gets him one year. I think Mike Hart is smart enough to see that things are still unsettled with the coaching changes. Also, if he was to fire Coach DD after next year that the program would be in better condition than it was when he got here but it still isn't where it would need to be for Coach PITS to come in and win immediately like all of the thunderstorm pumpers think that he he would.:peace2:
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Yeah I was being sarcastic about you being a sunshine pumper. Just pokin a little fun at beef, bassman, etc.
 
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#882
#882
tvols75 said:
I read it, and I meant to respond yesterday. The 4-4 can definitely be effective due to a lot of the versatility it provides. I'm assuming you had some stud DBs to not be scared about getting burnt?
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Not really. We just coached 'em up really really well. Lol

Seriously, we generally hed some pretty good corners. We did play as much zone as formations allowed us. When we did go man, most of the time it was because of a blitz. I run a high pressure defense with more blitz packages than you can shake a stick at. We ran some combo coverages too- man on blitz side and zone on the backside. The one thing I try to avoid is having to man up with my free safety. The FS only went man when I was sending both OLBs on a blitz from the edges or when we were defending an empty backfield 5 wide formation. I generally don't like to lose that FS over the top help. Most of our man coverage was man/free- man on corners and OLBs with the FS still having deep middle/over the top responsibilities. Having your FS free to play over the top is more comforting than a nice warm blanket on a cold winter's night. He can help erase tons of mistakes if he is not locked up in man coverage. I think of him as my security blanket because of all the blitzing that I do. There is a risk/reward to blitzes. Having my FS available in the middle helps alleviate my apprehension on risky pressure calls. I always have one of if not the best athlete(s) on the squad in the FS position.
 
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#883
#883
VolBeef88 said:
If you want to see what a good coach does all you have to do is look at our basketball coach. The team he coaches gets better as the year goes on. Dooley and his worshipers just make excuses.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Correct. Not even a close call.
 
#884
#884
TNGlen said:
Nah, just a realist. I got two kids going to school over there and keep my ear on the financial goings on. IMO I don't think that the program can stand another 4 or 5 million dollar buyout hit and then go and TRY to spend 2 - 3 million to hire this "pie in the sky" coach that a lot of folks seem to think is just waiting to come to UT. That is the only reason that I say 7 wins gets him one year. I think Mike Hart is smart enough to see that things are still unsettled with the coaching changes. Also, if he was to fire Coach DD after next year that the program would be in better condition than it was when he got here but it still isn't where it would need to be for Coach PITS to come in and win immediately like all of the thunderstorm pumpers think that he he would.:peace2:
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I agree that if Dooley is let go after the '12 season that he would be leaving the program in better shape personnel wise than when he came. I have to disagree on the 7 wins preserves his job though. With the talent on the team for this season, 7 wins is not good. With the schedule we have, it's not good at all. Dooley must show that he can win some games against the upper tier SEC teams this year. I feel Bray, Hunter, and Rodgers will not be with us next year, so if Dooley only manages 7 wins with them this year, next year will not look very good. I think the magic number is 8 for the '12 season. My personal standard is 9. Hart has already had some frank statements for Dooley particularly following the fiasco in Lexington on the field and the press conference following the game. 7 wins will not placate the big donors either, imo. There have been some indications from those guys that they are ready to pony up some cash if some substantial improvement is not made this season. Nothing concrete just some rumblings on the matter. As to the assistants, I think that many of those guys would be retained if it is true that Hart has Kirby Smart pegged as a replacement if the need to dismiss Dooley arises.

Not trying to be a jerk at all- but even with the extreme difficulties of the last few years, seven wins next year would be a significant underachievement. The roster is no longer bare. We are no longer hamstrung by lack of depth. We will have some leadership from upperclassmen. The young, inexperienced, and injured excuses (due to some actual depth now) will not fly from this point forward. Hart himself said that. We are not at square one anymore. Again not trying to be a jerk at all, but it is very troublesome to me that so many are claiming that 7 wins at UT is an acceptable outcome for next year. I am bothered by 8 wins as a satisfactory result to be honest. My standards are higher than that. I don't expect an SEC title next year, but anything less than 9 wins, pretty much proves that Dooley isn't going to be the coach that returns us to winning championships in the future. I feel that the '12 season is Dooley's 'all in' season. He is either going to double up or he is going to lose it all. For the sake of the University and the program, I hope he can double up. Unfortunately, based on the last two seasons at UT and his previous head coaching results there is more evidence that supports he will go bust. That's just how I honestly see it.
 
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#885
#885
There is as much difference in those comparison as night and day and to even say is a very uneducated opinion. The two comparisons are like apples to oranges. The fell that wrote the opening just kept repeating that he "didn't want to be a jerk, but that is what he's being. Not in the first paragraph, but in the second. Some of what he was saying was pure speculation, not fact. This was the way he put one part. beginning with "I believe". That isn't fact, that's opinion. Well, I can speculate all sorts of scenarios, but the plain truth is, "We don't know. Yes, We will have to win more ballgames next year, but there is some many things that can happen to change "the amount of games won" and IF Bray, Rogers, and Hunter are back next year. He thinks they won't be, I think Bray and Hunter will, even if we have a good year. My reasoning is that those two especially are still in need of game reps and game planning. We don't know for sure if Hunter is going to be 100% with his knee. Both Bray and Hunter haven't gained the necessary weight needed to play in the NFL, and it may just be the fact that they are still young and not developed fully. Another yr. might make all the difference. I hope the gentleman is right anf we do win 8, possibly 9 games next year. As a matter of fact, I hope we go 10-2 or 11-1,beating Bama at home would be great wouldn't it? and the thing about that, we could do that. More than likely not but, we could. I'm on CDD's side all the way!
 
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#886
#886
Jackson_Harris said:
See, there you go again B. No one here thinks Dooley is a great coach. Why can't you understand that? We think he gets this fall to win a bunch of games. If he don't, he is gone. End of story.
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Trolls like this beef and bass have no clue how to build a college football program. They don't even realize that firing dooley before giving him a chance to build the program back up would have caused all possible replacements to never even consider the vols.

So either they're really dumb, or they're opposing teams' fans who are trying to keep the vols down.

Either way, their opinions don't deserve any consideration.
 
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#887
#887
transplantiam said:
There is as much difference in those comparison as night and day and to even say is a very uneducated opinion. The two comparisons are like apples to oranges. The fell that wrote the opening just kept repeating that he "didn't want to be a jerk, but that is what he's being. Not in the first paragraph, but in the second. Some of what he was saying was pure speculation, not fact. This was the way he put one part. beginning with "I believe". That isn't fact, that's opinion. Well, I can speculate all sorts of scenarios, but the plain truth is, "We don't know. Yes, We will have to win more ballgames next year, but there is some many things that can happen to change "the amount of games won" and IF Bray, Rogers, and Hunter are back next year. He thinks they won't be, I think Bray and Hunter will, even if we have a good year. My reasoning is that those two especially are still in need of game reps and game planning. We don't know for sure if Hunter is going to be 100% with his knee. Both Bray and Hunter haven't gained the necessary weight needed to play in the NFL, and it may just be the fact that they are still young and not developed fully. Another yr. might make all the difference. I hope the gentleman is right anf we do win 8, possibly 9 games next year. As a matter of fact, I hope we go 10-2 or 11-1,beating Bama at home would be great wouldn't it? and the thing about that, we could do that. More than likely not but, we could. I'm on CDD's side all the way!
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You are way too sensitive if you think that I was being a jerk. There was no name-calling or condescention directed toward anyone that has a different view. I simply expressed an opposing viewpoint. I will put my 'uneducated' football acumen up to the test any day. Wanna test my knowledge of the game? Go ahead. I'm game.

Be prepared to have your feelings hurt a lot in life if you are this sensitive. Apologies for expressing my opinion on a message board. If I had presented my views as unadulterated facts, your statements may have some validity. However, I used qualifying words that indicated that they were my opinions. I did not say one negative thing about any poster, yet you get offended and call me a jerk for that post? I wish I was surprised.
 
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#888
#888
Jay, do you think if someone feels CDD will remain another year that it means the same person is satisfied with a 7 win season?
 
#890
#890
JayVols said:
No. Some may not be happy with 7 and still feel that gets him another year.
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The reason I ask is because you say this: it is very troublesome to me that so many are claiming that 7 wins at UT is an acceptable outcome for next year.

I just don't see "so many" here who think seven wins is good enough? I've seen some who think it would probably be enough, depending on circumstances, to keep Dooley. But I don't know many who would be satisfied or happy with seven.
 
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#891
#891
vollygirl said:
The reason I ask is because you say this: it is very troublesome to me that so many are claiming that 7 wins at UT is an acceptable outcome for next year.

I just don't see "so many" here who think seven wins is good enough? I've seen some who think it would probably be enough, depending on circumstances, to keep Dooley. But I don't know many who would be satisfied or happy with seven.
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Point taken. Bad choice of words on my part, perhaps.
 
#894
#894
vollygirl said:
The reason I ask is because you say this: it is very troublesome to me that so many are claiming that 7 wins at UT is an acceptable outcome for next year.

I just don't see "so many" here who think seven wins is good enough? I've seen some who think it would probably be enough, depending on circumstances, to keep Dooley. But I don't know many who would be satisfied or happy with seven.
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People should wait and see what the product looks like. What if we win 7, but lose to bama, lsu and ga on 50 yd field goals, a hail Mary, or a horrid call by the ref? What if we win 8, but look terrible most of the year?
I say just judge on what we see and it will work itself out.
 
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#895
#895
Spartacavolus said:
People should wait and see what the product looks like. What if we win 7, but lose to bama, lsu and ga on 50 yd field goals, a hail Mary, or a horrid call by the ref? What if we win 8, but look terrible most of the year?
I say just judge on what we see and it will work itself out.
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Precisely why I said "depending on circumstances".
 
#896
#896
Spartacavolus said:
People should wait and see what the product looks like. What if we win 7, but lose to bama, lsu and ga on 50 yd field goals, a hail Mary, or a horrid call by the ref? What if we win 8, but look terrible most of the year?
I say just judge on what we see and it will work itself out.
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Despite what many think, I am waiting to see what happens this year. That doesn't mean that I won't voice my doubts. I am not calling for Dooley's head immediately. I'm just going to remain a skeptic in some areas until I am given something to change my mind. I am not against Dooley, I'm just not one to have blind faith. I need evidence.

I do give credit where credit is due: CDD has convinced me that he is a pretty good recruiter at worst. We've had some nice recruiting classes despite our record. It's not easy to pull in quality players when a program is struggling. I also am a fan of the VFL Program. Off field discipline has improved, and I am very pleased with the work being put in to change the 'Fulmer Cup' perception.

I will also give my opinions on concerns within the program. They are just that, my opinions. Not being satisfied with certain areas doesn't make me a troll, negavol, or not a true fan. If one has children that are not behaving as one would want, are you trolling, hating, or not loving your kids if you point out areas of their behavior/actions that need improving upon? No. Is it hate or trolling to expect improvement in that behavior and discussing the consequences with your children if there is no improvement? No. You are trying to make them a better person. I don't think anything anyone says here will actually hurt or help the Vols, but we are a passionate fan base that loves to discuss that which we love: UT Football. It's unrealistic to be totally positive or totally negative on the state of the program at any time much less at this time.
 
#897
#897
JayVols said:
Despite what many think, I am waiting to see what happens this year. That doesn't mean that I won't voice my doubts. I am not calling for Dooley's head immediately. I'm just going to remain a skeptic in some areas until I am given something to change my mind. I am not against Dooley, I'm just not one to have blind faith. I need evidence.

I do give credit where credit is due: CDD has convinced me that he is a pretty good recruiter at worst. We've had some nice recruiting classes despite our record. It's not easy to pull in quality players when a program is struggling. I also am a fan of the VFL Program. Off field discipline has improved, and I am very pleased with the work being put in to change the 'Fulmer Cup' perception.

I will also give my opinions on concerns within the program. They are just that, my opinions. Not being satisfied with certain areas doesn't make me a troll, negavol, or not a true fan. If one has children that are not behaving as one would want, are you trolling, hating, or not loving your kids if you point out areas of their behavior/actions that need improving upon? No. Is it hate or trolling to expect improvement in that behavior and discussing the consequences with your children if there is no improvement? No. You are trying to make them a better person. I don't think anything anyone says here will actually hurt or help the Vols, but we are a passionate fan base that loves to discuss that which we love: UT Football. It's unrealistic to be totally positive or totally negative on the state of the program at any time much less at this time.
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Elaborate if you will.
 
#898
#898
JayVols said:
Despite what many think, I am waiting to see what happens this year. That doesn't mean that I won't voice my doubts. I am not calling for Dooley's head immediately. I'm just going to remain a skeptic in some areas until I am given something to change my mind. I am not against Dooley, I'm just not one to have blind faith. I need evidence.

I do give credit where credit is due: CDD has convinced me that he is a pretty good recruiter at worst. We've had some nice recruiting classes despite our record. It's not easy to pull in quality players when a program is struggling. I also am a fan of the VFL Program. Off field discipline has improved, and I am very pleased with the work being put in to change the 'Fulmer Cup' perception.

I will also give my opinions on concerns within the program. They are just that, my opinions. Not being satisfied with certain areas doesn't make me a troll, negavol, or not a true fan. If one has children that are not behaving as one would want, are you trolling, hating, or not loving your kids if you point out areas of their behavior/actions that need improving upon? No. Is it hate or trolling to expect improvement in that behavior and discussing the consequences with your children if there is no improvement? No. You are trying to make them a better person. I don't think anything anyone says here will actually hurt or help the Vols, but we are a passionate fan base that loves to discuss that which we love: UT Football. It's unrealistic to be totally positive or totally negative on the state of the program at any time much less at this time.
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fwiw, I don't lump you in with the other 3 or 4 that wouldn't know what to do if there wasn't something to ***** about. The majority of the base is in wait and see mode. The vocal fringe just makes it difficult to do something so basic without responding to the repetitive bs. You can tell they get off on it because they repeat the same things in every thread.
 
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#899
#899
JayVols,
IMHO, I believe transplantiam was trying to make a reference towards beef not your posts. I could be wrong but that is how it appears to me.

Your posts have always been well thought out, valid, reasonable and realistic. You have presented yourself in a very respectable manner (unlike others), which lends credence to your perspective. Just as Spartacavolus said, in no way are you lumped in with some of the others. Also, I've enjoyed the exchanges between you and tvols75.

Just wanted to throw that out there.
 
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#900
#900
vollygirl said:
Elaborate if you will.
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Hmm. I'll try to explain.

First it was not a knock on anyone else. Blind faith is having complete confidence in things that can't be seen or proven- not saying that proof couldn't be given in the future, mind you. I was trying to convey the fact that, for me, to 100% support Dooley requires having faith in some areas that confidence has not been earned or displayed as of this time. While I am 100% in support of UT Football, to completely trust, well, pretty much any person 100%, requires some blind faith. Probably a bad explanation,but I tried.
 
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