Coach Kellie discusses the Ohio State game

#26

lvocd

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#26
A coach should be able to draw on a whiteboard in 15 seconds how they want to break a press. Middle school coaches are capable of doing this and middle school players are capable of comprehending.
Of course it should be easy to draw up a plan! But executing that plan isn't so simple, and I know you know that. That's something that takes repetition, in practice. I mean, they were playing a team that specializes in pressing, not just a team that's decent at it.

Ugh.
 
#27

Lurker

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#27
I really like Coach Harper. I liked her as a player and I've wanted nothing but the best for her as she has coached. I'll always be a fan of hers, but I'm a disappointed fan.

Teams in all sports take on the personalities and traits of their coaches. As a player, Harper never had the freedom to play passively, thoughtlessly, sloppily, inconsistently or selfishly. Her coach would not have watched her make repeated mistakes passively and then later described her playing failures with understanding and hope for the future at a press conference. Her coach would have sat her down and firmly corrected her in the moment. If no change resulted, PHS would have quickly moved to the next woman up until her teaching was being performed correctly, with passion, and with focus. Corrections would have been in the form of an instant message, not something that would be tolerated while a game slipped away only to be worked on next week at practice. Pat was a person who was appreciated for demanding excellence. She did not suffer foolishness. Nor did she try so hard to be a player's coach that she lost sight of her job -- to teach and to consistently demand excellence. PHS became one of the most loved coaches in college history not because she was cuddly, "fair" and "understanding" (though she was), but, because, while she was consistently caring, she always and immediately demanded excellence from her kids. No one ever expected she would let someone "play through" sloppy or thoughtless efforts because they were gassed or for any other lame reason. If the other team beat the Lady Vols, congratulations to them. No Lady Vol team playing for PHS was ever allowed to mail in an effort and then hear the coach make excuses for its failure.

I hope Coach Harper can remember her roots and what made her so amazing during her playing days--thoughtful, consistent, effort all of the time. And she needs to demand that degree of effort from all of her players each and every time they take the floor, just like what was expected of her back in her playing days. She allowed some very talented players to mail in their efforts last night without attempted correction and now excuses are being offered for the failure. Ohio State was, in fact, very good. Nevertheless, UT should have won that game with relative ease if the players had given consistent and thoughtful efforts.

PHS certainly understood how to effect in-game "adjustments" in real time. No waiting for a TV break or waiting to work on something in practice. Fix it now or lose trying. Go Lady Vols!
 
#28

teacherdean

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#28
Whatever here we go again!
That is a very good question, because what we watched last night was a train wreck that turned into a dumpster fire. KJH looked like a deer looking into headlights, not quite sure what to do. The situation can be corrected but the larger question is KJH the right one to do it? Some people are good high school coaches and nothing else, while some are good small college coaches and nothing else. KJH has proven that she can win at the mid level. Sadly, that may be all you get out of her. We will see in the next few weeks if she can right the ship. If she cannot, it is time for the AD to consider going after a high profile coach, however, which high profile coach can we hire from their current position? However, if not corrected, it will be time to move on.
 
#30

ttharpe

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#30
I really like Coach Harper. I liked her as a player and I've wanted nothing but the best for her as she has coached. I'll always be a fan of hers, but I'm a disappointed fan.

Teams in all sports take on the personalities and traits of their coaches. As a player, Harper never had the freedom to play passively, thoughtlessly, sloppily, inconsistently or selfishly. Her coach would not have watched her make repeated mistakes passively and then later described her playing failures with understanding and hope for the future at a press conference. Her coach would have sat her down and firmly corrected her in the moment. If no change resulted, PHS would have quickly moved to the next woman up until her teaching was being performed correctly, with passion, and with focus. Corrections would have been in the form of an instant message, not something that would be tolerated while a game slipped away only to be worked on next week at practice. Pat was a person who was appreciated for demanding excellence. She did not suffer foolishness. Nor did she try so hard to be a player's coach that she lost sight of her job -- to teach and to consistently demand excellence. PHS became one of the most loved coaches in college history not because she was cuddly, "fair" and "understanding" (though she was), but, because, while she was consistently caring, she always and immediately demanded excellence from her kids. No one ever expected she would let someone "play through" sloppy or thoughtless efforts because they were gassed or for any other lame reason. If the other team beat the Lady Vols, congratulations to them. No Lady Vol team playing for PHS was ever allowed to mail in an effort and then hear the coach make excuses for its failure.

I hope Coach Harper can remember her roots and what made her so amazing during her playing days--thoughtful, consistent, effort all of the time. And she needs to demand that degree of effort from all of her players each and every time they take the floor, just like what was expected of her back in her playing days. She allowed some very talented players to mail in their efforts last night without attempted correction and now excuses are being offered for the failure. Ohio State was, in fact, very good. Nevertheless, UT should have won that game with relative ease if the players had given consistent and thoughtful efforts.

PHS certainly understood how to effect in-game "adjustments" in real time. No waiting for a TV break or waiting to work on something in practice. Fix it now or lose trying. Go Lady Vols!
Agree with every word. What’s interesting is this was the case with Holly as well. It baffles me that two LV alums who played AND won championships for Pat, playing the PG position, can’t coach an efficient, low-turnover offense.

You don’t have to try and BE Pat, but it should be clear as day that you’re demanding excellence and doing everything in your power to refocus your players in a game.
 
#31

Majors

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#31
That is a very good question, because what we watched last night was a train wreck that turned into a dumpster fire. KJH looked like a deer looking into headlights, not quite sure what to do. The situation can be corrected but the larger question is KJH the right one to do it? Some people are good high school coaches and nothing else, while some are good small college coaches and nothing else. KJH has proven that she can win at the mid level. Sadly, that may be all you get out of her. We will see in the next few weeks if she can right the ship. If she cannot, it is time for the AD to consider going after a high profile coach, however, which high profile coach can we hire from their current position? However, if not corrected, it will be time to move on.
A few here have said she was in over her head for awhile, from coaching the brand of Tennessee to recruiting. If she's not willing to make changes in game, she needs to have a strong bench coach to help her out. I said last year she needed to upgrade her bench and cut loose her husband. Pat always surrounded herself with coaches who made her job easier, Holly, Dean, Demoss and Al Brown.
 
#32

youcancallmeAl

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#32
It's too early in the season to give up on Harper. She will be the coach at least through this season, so let's put aside talk of firing her. She has assembled this team and this staff, so let's let her proceed without putting her on the hot seat. This team appears to be a long way from jelling, and it appears to be soft and poorly coached after one game, but let's give her the chance to try to recover and see what happens. Let's hope last night was an aberration.
 
#33

madtownvol

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#33
Of course it should be easy to draw up a plan! But executing that plan isn't so simple, and I know you know that. That's something that takes repetition, in practice. I mean, they were playing a team that specializes in pressing, not just a team that's decent at it.

Ugh.
Exactly, if all it takes to beat a press is a 15 second white board talk, how would pressing ever work? I mean why does any team ever lose when the problems on the court are just so easy to solve?
 
#34

37620VOL

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#34
Exactly, if all it takes to beat a press is a 15 second white board talk, how would pressing ever work? I mean why does any team ever lose when the problems on the court are just so easy to solve?
Clearly you would still have failures to break press, but having a better plan or at least one that gives the players confidence, maybe 20 second-half TOs becomes 10. Late in the third quarter, our young women were so rattled, several of them didn't seem to want the ball. CKH mentioned it as passivity. What it really was was fear.

She didn't call it that, and I don't blame her because that would not be the correct approach to correct the matter going forward.
 
#35

madtownvol

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#35
I really like Coach Harper. I liked her as a player and I've wanted nothing but the best for her as she has coached. I'll always be a fan of hers, but I'm a disappointed fan.

Teams in all sports take on the personalities and traits of their coaches. As a player, Harper never had the freedom to play passively, thoughtlessly, sloppily, inconsistently or selfishly. Her coach would not have watched her make repeated mistakes passively and then later described her playing failures with understanding and hope for the future at a press conference. Her coach would have sat her down and firmly corrected her in the moment. If no change resulted, PHS would have quickly moved to the next woman up until her teaching was being performed correctly, with passion, and with focus. Corrections would have been in the form of an instant message, not something that would be tolerated while a game slipped away only to be worked on next week at practice. Pat was a person who was appreciated for demanding excellence. She did not suffer foolishness. Nor did she try so hard to be a player's coach that she lost sight of her job -- to teach and to consistently demand excellence. PHS became one of the most loved coaches in college history not because she was cuddly, "fair" and "understanding" (though she was), but, because, while she was consistently caring, she always and immediately demanded excellence from her kids. No one ever expected she would let someone "play through" sloppy or thoughtless efforts because they were gassed or for any other lame reason. If the other team beat the Lady Vols, congratulations to them. No Lady Vol team playing for PHS was ever allowed to mail in an effort and then hear the coach make excuses for its failure.

I hope Coach Harper can remember her roots and what made her so amazing during her playing days--thoughtful, consistent, effort all of the time. And she needs to demand that degree of effort from all of her players each and every time they take the floor, just like what was expected of her back in her playing days. She allowed some very talented players to mail in their efforts last night without attempted correction and now excuses are being offered for the failure. Ohio State was, in fact, very good. Nevertheless, UT should have won that game with relative ease if the players had given consistent and thoughtful efforts.

PHS certainly understood how to effect in-game "adjustments" in real time. No waiting for a TV break or waiting to work on something in practice. Fix it now or lose trying. Go Lady Vols!
Actually, the in-game adjustments were not a strength of CPS. In fact that was the constant complaint during her dry years with no NC-- she could not adapt on the fly like Geno, or Tara, or Mulkey. Under CPS, the LVs had plenty of off nights.

That is basketball. It is not fair to compare Kellie to CPS but it is even worse when people trot out an idealized version of CPS and her teams.
 
#36

ttharpe

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#36
Exactly, if all it takes to beat a press is a 15 second white board talk, how would pressing ever work? I mean why does any team ever lose when the problems on the court are just so easy to solve?
Perhaps, this shows that Kellie and staff didn’t have a plan B or C when it was obvious the players couldn’t break the press in the way they were trying to the whole game - which, to me, goes back to being grossly underprepared to face a press against a team you knew would do it for 40 minutes.

If you don’t have a backup plan(s) for when your first option isn’t working, then yeah, a 15-20 second timeout probably won’t do much.
 
#37

GameTime

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#37
After reviewing again, Ohio State's 18 point scoring barrage, while our girls stumbled around the court, not knowing what to do, Kellie really screwed the pooch by not calling a timeout to calm them down...

This coaching fallacy is solely on her....I can't and won't defend her on that inexcusable coaching failure....A playground coach would have known to call timeout.

Ohio State played as a team, we played as 5 individuals...They are the better team, we are not a team yet, but 5 individuals that work independently of each other...Each part, not working as one for the common good, but more for their own stats instead of the good of the other 5 players.

I still can't believe she didn't call timeout...
 
#39

volnationnj

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#39
I can't believe it either. It had to be a premeditated strategy on her part. No one could sit on the bench and not call a timeout, while your team is drowning, unless you had your mind made up beforehand. I just wish I knew the strategy behind it.
 
#40

MLTS05

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#40
Somebody help me out - honest question - why, after an opponents made basket, do we sometimes fart around for several seconds getting lined up for the inbounds pass? Or sometimes we have to wait a few seconds for a specific player to come take it out. This gives the other team time to set up also. Shouldn't the closest player to the ball and the endline take it out so we can get it in quickly before the opponent has time to set up?
It’s a tactic to allow time for the players to set up in the press break. You’ll see them walk the ball out of bounds especially on free throws made.
 
#41

madtownvol

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#41
I can't believe it either. It had to be a premeditated strategy on her part. No one could sit on the bench and not call a timeout, while your team is drowning, unless you had your mind made up beforehand. I just wish I knew the strategy behind it.
One guess. Sometimes you lose (an EARLY] battle to win the war. It sends a message of "I am not saving you. You know what to do so figure it out." Now she has tape of the team under pressure and lost composure that can be used for teaching moments.
 
#43

GameTime

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#43
One guess. Sometimes you lose (an EARLY] battle to win the war. It sends a message of "I am not saving you. You know what to do so figure it out." Now she has tape of the team under pressure and lost composure that can be used for teaching moments.
Mad my friend, that tape is a horror tape....It is a complete collapse of our team, while our coach just sits there.....We can't even get the ball across the timeline, and when we do, we throw it away....

The horror....
I can't believe she didn't call timeout...
 
#44

madtownvol

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#44
Mad my friend, that tape is a horror tape....It is a complete collapse of our team, while our coach just sits there.....We can't even get the ball across the timeline, and when we do, we throw it away....

The horror....
I can't believe she didn't call timeout...
Small differences can lead to big consequences. Small changes to spacing and player movement and the horror is gone. Mark my words, when this team beats Stanford, everyone will be back to Kelly is the greatest!!!.


Funny how people forget that CPS's team got smacked a lot in their early season match-ups and some fans would complain that she need to follow Geno's lead and schedule more cream puffs to build confidence and chemisty. Of course those fans were wrong but playing a tough opening schedule can expose flaws. And better to get them exposed in November than March,
 
#46

ttharpe

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#46
I can't believe it either. It had to be a premeditated strategy on her part. No one could sit on the bench and not call a timeout, while your team is drowning, unless you had your mind made up beforehand. I just wish I knew the strategy behind it.
If it was a premeditated strategy, then she needs to be let go.

It’s hard for me to even consider that as a possibility though, because it’s been an ongoing pattern since she’s been coaching at UT.
 
#50
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#50
One guess. Sometimes you lose (an EARLY] battle to win the war. It sends a message of "I am not saving you. You know what to do so figure it out." Now she has tape of the team under pressure and lost composure that can be used for teaching moments.
you do this after the team becomes a team,,,not during the startup.
this only sends a message that they CAN collapse
right now this is a sum of the parts team,,it takes a strong hand to shape them into a unit
hands off won't work

Not calling timeout to me is like a punishment
punishment done appropriately = a lesson, respect
beyond punishment = a trauma, fear
18-0 run is beyond

I'm not on the "fire Kellie" brigade of drive-by posters...But I am a coach and I call it from that angle

Ya got to coach em,,,especially when they don't think they need it
 

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