Coach Kellie’s Fundamental Challenge

#27

LasVegasBill23

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#27
Sophie Cunningham was a top 20 recruit and McD AA. She was legit from the time she started playing for Missouri. As far as UK and Alabama, Holly had as much to do with them beating Tennessee as the teams themselves.

The winning combination is attracting the best players and being a good enough coach that you can maximize their potential. Any coach whose strategy is to recruit lower ranked players and expect to develop them into the next Aari McDonald will likely have a low success rate.
yup agree with all you say.....

cunningham was quite the player.... yes McD AA but not high on the list.... #28 in Hoopgurlz.... she was like Pete Rose... loced her if she was on your team... hated her if she was not....

but she played like she wanted it..... reminiscent of those old LV game videos.... Pat had her teams playing with ferocity
 
#28

Amb3096

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#28
There is a difference between a top 50 freshman and a top 50 as a senior. People on this board rave about HG#65 Chelsea Dungee who averaged 7 points a game her freshman year. Or HG #55 Aari McDonald who averaged 9 points per game her freshman year. The Players you have coming in can lead you to a final 4. Be honest with yourselves, unless you happen across an Aja Wilson situation where a top 5 wants to stay home, you are going to have to build a team to contend for national honors. Building is hard work and it takes time. Give it a rest. Support your team and your coaches and stop trying to act like you know all about WCBB because if we did the top of our paycheck would say "The University of ..."
And again I say to you...you wouldn't be having this same attitude if UConn wasn't getting the Azzi Fudds and Ayanna Pattersons and Tennessee was. So why don't YOU give it a rest instead of going to a rival fan board and telling them that they should be happy with their lower rates recruits while your team racks up top 5 players.

Seriously, your whole act here is as transparent as plastic wrap.
 
#29

Darth_Vol

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#29
And again I say to you...you wouldn't be having this same attitude if UConn wasn't getting the Azzi Fudds and Ayanna Pattersons and Tennessee was. So why don't YOU give it a rest instead of going to a rival fan board and telling them that they should be happy with their lower rates recruits while your team racks up top 5 players.

Seriously, your whole act here is as transparent as plastic wrap.
 
#30

RAVOL

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#30
Give me players who first have Heart, second understand the fundamentals of the game and third Athletic. Yes I prefer Elite Athlete if she has Heart and I can work on the fundamental side. But give me a team of the 3 traits I listed and I will see you in Final four. And by the way there are players scattered throughout top 50 players that meet these traits now go get them. In CHRIST Alone. PS some will say you need shooters and yes you do but young ladies who again have Heart and understand fundamentals of the game work on there game all the time including Shooting.
 
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#31

NeedOrange

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#31
And again I say to you...you wouldn't be having this same attitude if UConn wasn't getting the Azzi Fudds and Ayanna Pattersons and Tennessee was. So why don't YOU give it a rest instead of going to a rival fan board and telling them that they should be happy with their lower rates recruits while your team racks up top 5 players.

Seriously, your whole act here is as transparent as plastic wrap.
Take a minute and think. I’m going through the same thing with the UConn men. National Champions in 2014. Destroyed by the coach following the legend. Reputation destroyed. Bottom feeder in the AAC. I know and understand how many of you feel. At one time there were more UConn players in the NBA than any School. Now we are recruiting in the top 40’s. You don’t like what I said so you attack me. You would be better off looking for the truth than trying to justify a rotten attitude
 
#34

lfvol

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#34
I say that Arizona is the exception, not the norm. Yes, it can be done, but you're more likely to be successful with a team of top notch recruits. In the absence of such recruits, then the best you can do is work with what you have. I'm sure most coaches would agree it's probably not the preferred recruiting strategy to assume you will be successful doing so and that elite recruits don't need to be aggressively pursued.
AZ is the exception. Based on what someone posted in another thread, they had two higher rated recruits than anyone on our next year roster, still not elite though. More importantly, they had a unicorn at point guard that played at an even higher level in the tournament run. That’s very rare.
 
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#35

Amb3096

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#35
Take a minute and think. I’m going through the same thing with the UConn men. National Champions in 2014. Destroyed by the coach following the legend. Reputation destroyed. Bottom feeder in the AAC. I know and understand how many of you feel. At one time there were more UConn players in the NBA than any School. Now we are recruiting in the top 40’s. You don’t like what I said so you attack me. You would be better off looking for the truth than trying to justify a rotten attitude
I suggest you take a step back and think whether your approach is tone deaf or not. Telling a Tennessee fan to "get over it" because of expressing concerns about the need to strengthen recruiting? With that kind of statement, why would you expect any response other than a hostile one? I will tell you right now that no, it is not a good look for a UConn fan to be coming here and telling us "cheer up! things will get better!" right after you sign yet another player that Tennessee was in hot pursuit of. You'd be better off not saying anything with regards to this. I wouldn't call my attitude rotten; it's intolerance for whatever act you're playing here. I'm pretty sure that all of your glowing praise for what a good job Kellie is doing is not repeated by you on the Boneyard, so yes...I question your authenticity.

If you want to talk basketball, that's cool. If you as a UConn fan want to tell us what we should/should not be happy for as Tennessee fans, then perhaps you should go find somewhere else to try that sh!t.

Please feel free to read my post #31 in this thread. The consistent monotonous critical threads do not identify someone as an expert and certainly do not provide a solution. It becomes just background noise to be ignored.
Wow, you really are full of yourself. Honestly, you're the background noise that needs to be ignored.
 
#36

volnationnj

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#36
I suggest you take a step back and think whether your approach is tone deaf or not. Telling a Tennessee fan to "get over it" because of expressing concerns about the need to strengthen recruiting? With that kind of statement, why would you expect any response other than a hostile one? I will tell you right now that no, it is not a good look for a UConn fan to be coming here and telling us "cheer up! things will get better!" right after you sign yet another player that Tennessee was in hot pursuit of. You'd be better off not saying anything with regards to this. I wouldn't call my attitude rotten; it's intolerance for whatever act you're playing here. I'm pretty sure that all of your glowing praise for what a good job Kellie is doing is not repeated by you on the Boneyard, so yes...I question your authenticity.

If you want to talk basketball, that's cool. If you as a UConn fan want to tell us what we should/should not be happy for as Tennessee fans, then perhaps you should go find somewhere else to try that sh!t.



Wow, you really are full of yourself. Honestly, you're the background noise that needs to be ignored.
I'm getting sick and tired of reading posts from fans of other teams telling us what to do. Compounding the problem is a large group of our own fans who seem obsessed with a team up north. It seems like every other post is about them. If you want to discuss that team, go to their forum.
 
#37

jonson

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#37
I suggest you take a step back and think whether your approach is tone deaf or not. Telling a Tennessee fan to "get over it" because of expressing concerns about the need to strengthen recruiting? With that kind of statement, why would you expect any response other than a hostile one? I will tell you right now that no, it is not a good look for a UConn fan to be coming here and telling us "cheer up! things will get better!" right after you sign yet another player that Tennessee was in hot pursuit of. You'd be better off not saying anything with regards to this. I wouldn't call my attitude rotten; it's intolerance for whatever act you're playing here. I'm pretty sure that all of your glowing praise for what a good job Kellie is doing is not repeated by you on the Boneyard, so yes...I question your authenticity.

If you want to talk basketball, that's cool. If you as a UConn fan want to tell us what we should/should not be happy for as Tennessee fans, then perhaps you should go find somewhere else to try that sh!t.



Wow, you really are full of yourself. Honestly, you're the background noise that needs to be ignored.
Full disclosure: I'm an Oregon fan now, although I do come from CT and certainly admire the team up north (from here) or to the east (from Eugene). But, for what it's worth, I think that it's relevant to point out that Auriemma has never won a championship without at least one "superstar" (eg. Taurasi, Moore, Stewart, and maybe now Bueckers) on the roster, and most times more than one. Whenever this has been pointed out to him--and it's been pointed out numerous times--his response has been a variation on "of course."
 
#39

youcancallmeAl

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#39
This is the thing that drives me up a wall about this whole conversation. Some people seem hellbent on saying you don't have to have the Moores or Parkers or Griners to win titles, but I think that assertion misses the point. I think those of us who talk about recruiting rankings aren't saying "you have to have elite recruits or else you'll never win." We're saying "your odds of winning increase dramatically if you have elite recruits on your roster." Not to mention that every championship team in the past decade save one has had at least one top ten recruit on its starting lineup, and many had multiple such recruits. Those aren't coincidences.

Yes, you can coach up players, yes, you can assemble teams that are competitive, or you can score that "diamond in the rough" who turns out to be worth more than anyone knew - but the odds are against it. You can get an outlier like an Arizona or a Minnesota, but it's often a one off and it's not consistent. For every Arizona in the title game, you get Connecticut or Baylor or South Carolina winning the title. That's just how it shakes out in the sport.

Summitt's dad had it right. You don't take donkeys to the Kentucky Derby. And there's only so many racehorses to go around. That's just how it is.

I get it, and agree that to get to the promised land you stand a much better chance if you have the elite talent. But how does Harper get that talent now? She can talk to the elite recruits as much as the rules will allow, but put yourself in the position of a player being recruited heavily by UConn or Stanford or SC. Why would you risk coming to UT now? Harper has proved she can get a team to the NCAA, but hasn't proved she can get to a FF or be a conference champion, much less make the sweet sixteen. I believe Harper will have to have success disproportionate to her talent (like AZ just did) to breakthrough to landing the elite talent. That means she must first focus on developing the the best players she can recruit. (and she's not recruiting poorly, but the way) That's what Rick Barnes did with Grant and Bone et al. The elites weren't going to take a chance with him until he proved he and his program were worthy. And now he's getting elite talent via recruiting. IMHO, what Kellie must focus on most now is player development and team cohesion. if she succeeds at that, she'll break through in recruiting. Build it and they will come.
 
#40
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#40
..... IMHO, what Kellie must focus on most now is player development and team cohesion. if she succeeds at that, she'll break through in recruiting. Build it and they will come.
Agree but she still will be getting in the ear of those 23-24 players because she wants to build strong relationships and be more than an institution to the player. Next years players will have 3 years of development and I believe you will find everyone of them better. They have fun together and I have to think that means a lot to the recruits.
 
#41

youcancallmeAl

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#41
Agree but she still will be getting in the ear of those 23-24 players because she wants to build strong relationships and be more than an institution to the player. Next years players will have 3 years of development and I believe you will find everyone of them better. They have fun together and I have to think that means a lot to the recruits.

Yep, agree.
 
#42
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#42
In the absence of those top 10-15 players where the rest of your roster can play more of a supporting role, someone would have to rise above their pre college expectations the way that Aari did. And there's no guarantee that you ended up with the right mid-ranked recruit who has the potential to be that player. With a player like Paige Bueckers or Aliyah Boston, you have a good sense of what you're getting when they step on campus.

Three of the four teams in the FF this year were Super Teams. Same with the last tournament. The time before that, you had 3 teams full of top 10 recruits and then MSST (who had two of those "exceptions"). Odds to make the FF/NC are still heavily skewed towards those teams that have the top talent.
Where would you rank say Rae Burell who was number 43 in hoopgurlz and 119 in prospects nation her senior year? If we get a bunch of "Rae Burrell" types wouldn't you say we have as good a chance as anyone. I don't know many D-1 schools that wouldn't take her. When you look at this year's class, they were all heavily recruited by top programs around the country even though their rankings were not that top 10-15 right down to Brooklyn Miles who was recruited by North Carolina State.
 
#43
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#43
There is a difference between a top 50 freshman and a top 50 as a senior. People on this board rave about HG#65 Chelsea Dungee who averaged 7 points a game her freshman year. Or HG #55 Aari McDonald who averaged 9 points per game her freshman year. The Players you have coming in can lead you to a final 4. Be honest with yourselves, unless you happen across an Aja Wilson situation where a top 5 wants to stay home, you are going to have to build a team to contend for national honors. Building is hard work and it takes time. Give it a rest. Support your team and your coaches and stop trying to act like you know all about WCBB because if we did the top of our paycheck would say "The University of ..."
I agree. When was the last time Tennessee landed 4 players on the all-SEC teams? It has been a while. Other than Rennia, the other 3 have been exclusively under Kelli's tutelage only. She must be doing something right. When you put a bunch of top 10 players on the court and they don't get along or they all think their worth is more than the teammate standing next to them we lose as we did back 2018-19. We had more talent on paper than most schools in the country with a bunch of sophomores who had been top players and All Americans. We had the number 2, 10 12, 25, 43, and we still lost. Kelli is going to get players that are going to go all out and work their behinds off that want to win. They probably shouldn't pick us to finish 7th again this year in the league and we will be in the top twenty if not the top ten. Injuries barred, we have the talent for no matter the rankings of the players.
 
#44

Amb3096

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#44
Where would you rank say Rae Burell who was number 43 in hoopgurlz and 119 in prospects nation her senior year? If we get a bunch of "Rae Burrell" types wouldn't you say we have as good a chance as anyone. I don't know many D-1 schools that wouldn't take her. When you look at this year's class, they were all heavily recruited by top programs around the country even though their rankings were not that top 10-15 right down to Brooklyn Miles who was recruited by North Carolina State.
I think Rae is a great example of a player that got better over her career. Her HS rankings were about right, given what her freshman stats were (3.6 ppg, 31.7 FG%, 21.9 3FG%). Obviously, she's improved those numbers across the board. As much as she's improved, I think she's still a few levels from the top tier (All American, All SEC 1st team), but she's clearly better than she was when she came in. I just don't think you can build a team around someone at her level. As was the case this year, she is better as a supporting cast to a star player (Davis). And even with the two of them, they still finished 3rd in the SEC and lost in the 2nd round of the NCAAT. Burrell is really the only proven scorer on the team going into next season right now, and that will be a tough situation when they lost their star player.

The recruits coming in are all good players and I'm not surprised they were heavily recruited, but like Burrell, they are probably all players that will need a few seasons to adjust to the college game and get better. I doubt schools were recruiting them with the expectation that they would be immediate impact players like a Bueckers, Boston or Clark. I can see them being solid players as juniors...maybe even sophomores...but ones that are better suited to complementary roles around a star (or two) instead of carrying a team to a SEC title or Final Four.
 
#45

Remy

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#45
If you've never played or coached team sports on a national level of success what I'm going to mention may not make sense. There is no doubt talent is a must have, you've got to have highly talented players executing. But the very best player or players of the tippy top of the tippy top players all on one team frequently do not go home with the trophy. There is the magical thing called team chemistry that when you have it, you scale the heights of what has been put before you competitively. If you can find how to manufacture it or make it happen and bottle it you could become a millionaire overnight. But most of us cannot, we just experience it, perhaps once in a lifetime if we're lucky. The great coaches like Pat Summit, Bear Bryant, Lou Holz, Nic Saban to name just a few became great IMO as it was their WILL as coaches that overrode any other things in their environments that required a certain team chemistry be imprinted year in and year out. Good coaches can capture it every now and then or even once, great coaches REQUIRE a team chemistry that rise above all else going on to win year in and year out. Winning isn't everything it is the ONLY thing to those few greats that deliver it.
 
#46

Amb3096

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#46
If you've never played or coached team sports on a national level of success what I'm going to mention may not make sense. There is no doubt talent is a must have, you've got to have highly talented players executing. But the very best player or players of the tippy top of the tippy top players all on one team frequently do not go home with the trophy. There is the magical thing called team chemistry that when you have it, you scale the heights of what has been put before you competitively. If you can find how to manufacture it or make it happen and bottle it you could become a millionaire overnight. But most of us cannot, we just experience it, perhaps once in a lifetime if we're lucky. The great coaches like Pat Summit, Bear Bryant, Lou Holz, Nic Saban to name just a few became great IMO as it was their WILL as coaches that overrode any other things in their environments that required a certain team chemistry be imprinted year in and year out. Good coaches can capture it every now and then or even once, great coaches REQUIRE a team chemistry that rise above all else going on to win year in and year out. Winning isn't everything it is the ONLY thing to those few greats that deliver it.
I don't disagree with you, but you're making the assumption that you can't have the best talent AND team chemistry. And that is the winning formula, which will trump team chemistry but with lesser talent. Otherwise, NBA teams should be able to take a bunch of really hard working and team committed G league players and win the NBA championships...but they don't, because there are more talented teams that are playing together well as a team.
 
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#47
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#47
There is no one characteristic that constitutes a champion, but there is one trait all champions have...and, that is Honor!

With honor, you get dedication, work ethic, physical prowess (bc an athlete with honor, honors their body), skills, heart and a teammate that syncs with and plays-well with others, because, if an athlete has honor, they will have the integrity it takes to acquire all of these other traits.

With honor, you get full effort in every moment on the floor. No disappearing acts, bc, that is dishonorable to them.

I look back on our season and think about which players gave everything of themselves every moment in which they were on the floor...NOT, who was the most visible or who got the press-clippings, but, who gave their ALL every moment on the floor?!,,,

Who never walked down the floor in a game?..Who never disappeared for a span?..Who never dropped their shoulders and gave a "woe is me" look?..Who could we put on the floor for instant and more importantly, constant "impact"?..Who never let frustration dictate their gamesmanship or effort?

There were two on the bench who I felt had this quality in Keyen and Jaiden, and I wish they had had an opportunity to display it more....But of the other 11 players on this team,, who, fit the description above?

I count four

You want a championship team?...Take the recruits coming in, mix with these four and begin to build a nucleus,,,Let the other players see if some honor rises out of them, if not let them hit the portal.

The team has run the organization long enough. It is time for the coach to take over. And I DO mean, take over!

Here's looking at ya, Pat

;o)
 
#48

Amb3096

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#48
I look back on our season and think about which players gave everything of themselves every moment in which they were on the floor...NOT, who was the most visible or who got the press-clippings, but, who gave their ALL every moment on the floor?!,,,

Who never walked down the floor in a game?..Who never disappeared for a span?..Who never dropped their shoulders and gave a "woe is me" look?..Who could we put on the floor for instant and more importantly, constant "impact"?..Who never let frustration dictate their gamesmanship or effort?

There were two on the bench who I felt had this quality in Keyen and Jaiden, and I wish they had had an opportunity to display it more....But of the other 11 players on this team,, who, fit the description above?

I count four

You want a championship team?...Take the recruits coming in, mix with these four and begin to build a nucleus,,,Let the other players see if some honor rises out of them, if not let them hit the portal.
Assuming you're not including the departed graduates, I'm curious who your 4 were. If we're talking effort, clearly it would be Rae and Jordan Walker. Guessing the other two were Tess and Marta. If we're talking impact, then it's Rae, Tamari, and ????
 
#49
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#49
Assuming you're not including the departed graduates, I'm curious who your 4 were. If we're talking effort, clearly it would be Rae and Jordan Walker. Guessing the other two were Tess and Marta. If we're talking impact, then it's Rae, Tamari, and ????
I'll give you Rae, Tamari and Jordan W...gonna stay mum on the other one

Oh, and Kasi, if she was going to be around is another player who never lacked for effort or heart,,,early on she did have limited skill-sets (bringing the ball down and missed bunnies, unneeded power-dribbles, etc),,,but this year she grew by leaps and bounds. I was very proud of her growth in game this year.
 
#50

VOLPAT

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#50
whatever the particulars..... she needs a true PG who can safeguard the basketball.... hve heard her say that her team set the TO benchmark at 15.... below 15 a game was what they sought to achieve.... i think that bar has to be raised.... when playing at top level.... we need a guard to distribute and serve as catalyst for offense
Agree. We need a point guard like Kellie Jolly, Bill
 
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