Coach Jumper: Prediction: Diamond WILL be a Jumper again

#76
#76
I have a question.....if Pat was still coaching, and she sees how Deshields has been playing, or say DD is playing for UCONN and Geno sees the way she's been playing.....would anyone be questioning them if instead of letting DD run the team and play the way she wants, they benched her, trying to prove a point?

Knowing the potential impact DD can make on any game regardless of competition, and seeing how she's been playing so sporadically this season, I can see why Holly is so frustrated with her play. Let's all be honest, everyone was extremely excited when we heard DD was coming, we felt a ray of hope that we haven't felt in a long time. Our expectations were high of DD and rightfully so, she's one of the most gifted athletes in the country at 100%. DD just hasn't lived up to those expectations this year and everybody knows it.....including DD! I think Holly is managing Diamond the same way Geno and Pat would. She's played in TONS of big games over her basketball career and Holly doesn't think she should have to baby Diamond into playing high IQ basketball. Diamond knows she's the best player on the team and she has to start acting like it damnit! She needs to step up and be the alpha female this team needs. She has to want it herself...Holly can't want it for her!

Geno or Muffet would have developed an offensive scheme that would take advantage of Diamond's skills. Neither of them runs the same scheme no matter who's on the court; they adjust according to their personnel and build the offense around them, not trying to force them into a pre-defined mold.

Muffet lost Turner for a few games and completely overhauled her offense to focus on the getting the guards open for jumpers; Geno's offense is inherently different with Stewart as his best player compared to when he had Diana. Holly will be screaming "Inside out....INSIDE OUT!!!!!" till she's blue in the face even if Kortney Dunbar is playing center next year after everyone transfers.

She can't coach, and the players are clearly frustrated because of this. They are probably wondering why she's forcing them to play this rigid style when they could be doing so much more.
 
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#77
#77
Diamond wouldn't be playing like this if she were coached by Summitt, Geno, Mulkey, McGraw, etc. Those coaches know how to well, coach! They know how to motivate and get that potential out of a player. They know how to smooth over rough spots so they can be a valuable member of a team. Diamond needs a strong hand and Holly ain't it!

Head on correct. Geno, Pat, and even this ol coach wouldn't let our players control anything. Nor the parents.

I tell my parents from the gitgo... "You can't affect how much i play your child, but you can affect how much I don't"

When you have an alpha like DD, she has to have an alpha leading her. and she IS NOT UNIQUE!

Look at what Geno gets out of those kids. Better yet, let's take female coaching alpha's: McGraw, Vanderveer, Summit... You rarely see these women lose composure, ergo, you rarely see the team lose its composure.
 
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#78
#78
to describe Dunbar's play as "completely ineffective." I don't know of too many people who come of the bench and light things up in six minutes. You realize you're talking about one of the worst shooting teams in the country? The fact remains that she has the highest shooting percentage on a terrible shooting team--a team, by the way, that had this many treys tonight--ZERO. So I'm thinking Dunbar might have helped and absolutely could not have hurt. We lost--again. Our offense was terrible--again. The coaches have yet to player her even 10 minutes in one game. Would she be the answer to all our offensive woes? Surely not, but she might help a little. With an offense this bad, yea, I'm trying different things, different players, different everything. And that includes sitting Cooper, who has played far more than she should have all year.


its not a question of effectiveness for Dunbar, it is about how she is used. You can hide a defensive liability by controlling the offensive flow of the game. You get the other team so focused on defending you that their defense starts to become a second thought.

If Dunbar can only run for 6-or less minutes at a time, put her in for 3-4 minutes, 2 or 3 times a game. Even if she isn't hitting, she IS a threat and must be focused on.
 
#79
#79
I have a question.....if Pat was still coaching, and she sees how Deshields has been playing, or say DD is playing for UCONN and Geno sees the way she's been playing.....would anyone be questioning them if instead of letting DD run the team and play the way she wants, they benched her, trying to prove a point?

Knowing the potential impact DD can make on any game regardless of competition, and seeing how she's been playing so sporadically this season, I can see why Holly is so frustrated with her play. Let's all be honest, everyone was extremely excited when we heard DD was coming, we felt a ray of hope that we haven't felt in a long time. Our expectations were high of DD and rightfully so, she's one of the most gifted athletes in the country at 100%. DD just hasn't lived up to those expectations this year and everybody knows it.....including DD! I think Holly is managing Diamond the same way Geno and Pat would. She's played in TONS of big games over her basketball career and Holly doesn't think she should have to baby Diamond into playing high IQ basketball. Diamond knows she's the best player on the team and she has to start acting like it damnit! She needs to step up and be the alpha female this team needs. She has to want it herself...Holly can't want it for her!


Not only us, but one or two sportswriters and legendary coaches... remember the initial poll, #4 in the country.

Diamond need directing. She is not unique.
 
#80
#80
OP,
While I can agree with a lot of what you say. Something really ironic jumps out about your post.

On the one hand you say DD needs "alpha" leadership, but is missing it.

On the other hand, you beg the current not-alpha-enough leader to step down of her own free will. Why? ... wait for it ... Because her own leaders apparently don't have enough "alpha" in them to do the job themselves.

Your post calls out the failure of leadership above the head coach just as much as the head coach herself. Have you ever considered that maybe the true deficiency in leadership is bigger than the head coach alone here?


Diamond, Graves and Cooper all need the very same thing. An Alpha to influence them.

It's not necessarily for the coaching aspect. Holly, Dean, Kyra, and Jollette all know how to teach and run teams. The missing ingredient is that influence that can pick these girls up and slam them back down when they need it.

Its quite like the Mom/Dad thing with a daughter. Daughter gets upset. Mom tries to calm her down and just incites her more, Dad steps in a says, "Calm down, shut up,,, now, whats going on kiddo..." and the world magically lifts off of her.

this could be a gender reversal as well. Mom could be the alpha... But until that child get in front of someone who can bring her back to earth... she will stay frazzled.
 
#81
#81
Coach Jumper is producing what may be the most innovative job application in history. I am sure Dave Hart will see these posts and think, "hey this Jumper fella says he can do "it" and he even has a video of girls playing basketball; break out the million dollar contract!"


Remember the movie "Eddie"... where the fan gets to coach the NBA team... Unlike Eddie (Whoopi Goldberg)... I wouldn't be in a La-La world. I wouldn't be intimidated. Keep your millions, Dave. . . Don't pay me until i am worth it to you.

The video shows what i can teach to a 12 yr old. That team played in 18 tourneys over one summer, 71 total games. they lost a total of 14. This was the first year for that team and the second year for only two of those girls with me. It was Mother's day, so it was only halfway through the season. And look how they play, every girl scores. GivenGo's, screen-rolls, ball high on the rebounds. There were alpha's on the team. (Naomi, Joannie, Charly) but YOU can't pick them out.


You crack jokes. I enjoy them. But if you had a girl that played for me, you would know. . . Some athletes can't play for me. I have coached right at 3,000 girls. Teams, camps, clinics, summer-programs all told. . . Out of this very large number of kids, there are only 3 or 4 that come to mind that I couldn't get the best out of and wouldn't ever even attempt to coach them again.

I realize that ost of you out here in VolNation will call me the ultimate couch-coach. UNTIL you see me work.
 
#83
#83
This situation reminds me of a boy I taught, a fifth grader. Smart enough, but poor behavior. When I called his mom in, she told me she knew I was "against" her son. Then she recalled how his 4th grade teacher had it in for him, and his 3rd grade teacher, and then there was his second grade teacher. Turns out, she said, his first grade and kindergarten teachers had it in for him, too. I almost laughed out loud, but said, "He has had the WORST LUCK! EVERY teacher has been against him!" And it went right over her head.

Long story short, he ended up in youth detention before he was 16, never finished high school. I had to wonder if he ever found a teacher who appreciated his behavior?!
 
#84
#84
Vanderveer and McGraw are NOT alpha coaches--that is wrong. Geno, yes; those two, not at all. They are /smart/ coaches--not a word I'd use when describing HW AND this staff--the staff factors into it. I think intelligence is the first quality I'd look for in a coach, and then the other qualities. Let's not pretend that the players don't bear a lot of responsibility for this debacle. Last year we had players who played well; one could argue that most of them did. Who was the coach? Burdick had a great year; Harrison was good, and Massengale had a pretty strong year--they all put the damn ball in the basket and didn't seem too put off by HW not being an "alpha" coach. I think a lot of this is on our coaches--but damn sure quite a bit of it is on the players too, in my view.

RE Cooper: She has played FAR too much this year--and her poor play has ZERO to do with whether or not HW is an alpha or not. HW has made a serious mistake playing her so much.

I did not see the game last night--but according to the post-game press conference, after we'd cut the deficit to three points in the 4th quarter, Cooper took two bad shots that cost us any chance to win the game. Cooper likes to take the ball to the basket, which is a nice skill but doesn't work too well against zones. Let me say this plainly: She has shown herself to be a poor player against zone defenses. We have faced ZONE defenses ALL YEAR. She doesn't have a pretty jump shot, and in fact she has the WORST shooting percentage on the team--and yet she has taken FAR more shots than any of our guards. That's not smart. She also has the WORST assist-to-turnover ratio among our guards. And yet she's been averaging almost 24 minutes a game. Why? Somebody tell me how she is helping us to win games? She is causing us to lose games--as she did last night. I'm not trying to knock her individually--she is young and will get better, but you don't keep giving big minutes to someone who is causing you to lose games!

Some say Carter and Reynolds and Middleton have not been very good either. Point made--but their play has been less negative: they don't have as many turnovers, they don't miss quite as much. Let's say you have an 8 player rotation and all 8 of them are somewhere between mediocre and weak, and all are getting roughly the same minutes. If you, as a coach, stop playing the player with the worst metrics, reduce her PT significantly, your team should get a little better. Not a lot better but incrementally better, because you've removed your worst player from the game. Addition by subtraction. We need every bit of incremental help we can get.

Jumper confuses talent with production. I don't give a damn how talented your are or how talented you seem, if your numbers are consistently bad you shouldn't be playing much, if at all. Cooper has been consistently bad offensively all year--and she's not a very good defender either. She had bad numbers almost every game-and yet is still playing upwards of 25 minutes a night! I repeat, that is stupid. Cooper will get better, I hope, with experience--but she should be the last guard we are playing against zone defenses. This has nothing to do with whether HW is "alpha" or not but simply making smart personnel decisions.

Like Cooper, DeShields has played poorly most of the year, too. But unlike Cooper, she should be playing more, not less. We can win without Cooper. We cannot win without DD playing well, which is why we've been losing all year.
 
#85
#85
Holly's relationship with Diamond is actually way down on the list of problems taking a back seat to:

- poor offensive schemes
- poor motivator
- poor problem solver
- allows referees to hose us
Have you notice that when she does run a scheme/play the players usually don't put the ball in the hole. Despite coaching if we put the ball in the hole, missed layups, free throws etc. are hard to overcome. I scratch my head over this team. I do think that the season is over. I see no fire in this team. I've lost all hope.
 
#86
#86
This situation reminds me of a boy I taught, a fifth grader. Smart enough, but poor behavior. When I called his mom in, she told me she knew I was "against" her son. Then she recalled how his 4th grade teacher had it in for him, and his 3rd grade teacher, and then there was his second grade teacher. Turns out, she said, his first grade and kindergarten teachers had it in for him, too. I almost laughed out loud, but said, "He has had the WORST LUCK! EVERY teacher has been against him!" And it went right over her head.

Long story short, he ended up in youth detention before he was 16, never finished high school. I had to wonder if he ever found a teacher who appreciated his behavior?!


as long as the athlete was being adequately coached, no words from Mom or Dad. The moment that Little Suzy underachieved it was the overseer's fault.. the only thig is... sometimes it may very well be the overseer. Proven all the way through HS,,, projected to be of the top 3-4 in the country, expected to immediately impact wherever she goes... No problem... BUT, not getting the strong influence she needs... there there is a problem.
 
#87
#87
"Jumper confuses talent with production". . .A pretty quote, but I'm not not sure what you mean.

one cannot be considered talented without numbers to justify the label (production)... but one can produce without talent by being in the right spot at the right time and coming through in that moment.
 
#88
#88
as long as the athlete was being adequately coached, no words from Mom or Dad. The moment that Little Suzy underachieved it was the overseer's fault.. the only thig is... sometimes it may very well be the overseer. Proven all the way through HS,,, projected to be of the top 3-4 in the country, expected to immediately impact wherever she goes... No problem... BUT, not getting the strong influence she needs... there there is a problem.


issues of maturity or attitude, and I say 'if', they certainly just didn't start this year playing for HW. I don't buy that. If you have been around this game, or sports, then you should know, as I do, that is is often the kids who think they are the greatest who often prove not to be in action--because they don't bring the other qualities to the floor that truly great player must have. It's not just about being super-talented in high school. You should also know that being told how great you are from an early age is NOT a good thing and will generally prove detrimental to the player's performance and relationship to coaches and teammates over time. There are many, many examples.

Do Vol BB fans recall Wiley-Gates--the kid who was said to be this incredible phenom at age 15 or so, amazing talent? She committed to UT. When she got here, she turned out to be not so good; had some issues with the coaching--did not like the system. Wanted to be the focal point of the team. She transferred after a couple of years (yes?) to Maryland, and didn't even start there. In the end, this supposed incredible talent had very undistinguished college career. There is a lot more to being successful than mere talent. That is but a starting point.
 
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#89
#89
Gatewood's problem was that while she was only 18/19 yo, her knees and lower legs were eighty-five, worn the hell out from too much too soon.

People who know horses, raise them etc, know that you should never ever overwork or put too much work stress on a young horse. It works the same way with the young not fully developed human child.
That is why Tiger Woods is a has been at <40 yo. His body is plumb worn the hell out.
 
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#90
#90
Armchair, you are spot on, especially with the Wiley-Gates analogy. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of DD's talent. But Holly has no clue how to handle her. Obviously, Diamond is a special talent, but she comes with mental baggage, undeniable pressure and expectations, a silver-spoon upbringing and manic on-floor behavior. She must be manipulated, as Coach Jumper has suggested, into producing her best. Holly's frantic substituting and overall cluelessness have diffused DD of any cohesive, productive structure. Thus the disappointing season.

Holly and DD both are stubborn. There's probably no hope they can patch up their relationship, so one needs to leave, period. I hope it's Holly.

Now, back to the Wiley-Gates reference. Cooper is the second coming, yet a scarier version because Holly is the head coach. Cooper is overrated, undisciplined (obviously allowed to do whatever she's wanted on the court since an early age) and too young to be receiving the minutes Warlick allows her to play. I honestly wonder how many top-notch schools would consider a transfer. You do remember what a superstar WG became after leaving Tennessee (NOT!)? Cooper's freshman year has been an epic fail in all areas. I cringe every time time she tries to bust the zone with a drive. I actually hope she busts a move to another school if anyone will take her. We'll be better suited with Middleton.

Too many problems, so few solutions. Coach Jumper and Armchair, thanks for the interesting dissections of our team's ills.
 
#91
#91
"Jumper confuses talent with production". . .A pretty quote, but I'm not not sure what you mean.

one cannot be considered talented without numbers to justify the label (production)... but one can produce without talent by being in the right spot at the right time and coming through in that moment.

DD is talented, we all agree on that. Has she been productive? Absolutely not. Let's see: the most talented player on the team was 0-7 last night with a couple of turnovers--a woeful performance much like numerous other woeful performances she's had this year. It can't be any more plain than that.

It doesn't matter how "talented" you are if you don't play well. Likewise, there are a LOT of players who are not hugely athletic who can be very productive in basketball--they are players who make shots, make threes, for example. You don't need DD's athleticism to make shots. You just need to put the ball in the basket. McGraw has had a bunch of such players at Notre Dame over the years--many colleges have. We had a guard several years ago named Zolman who was not athletic and not an especially good player, but she gave us more than DD is giving us in most games because she was a good three-point shooter. Burdick last year: Not a great athlete, but a forward who could rebound AND shoot. Nobody on this team can shoot. We have a terrible three-point shooting team: You can't beat zone defenses, you can't win games these days, if you cannot make 5 threes a game. Notre Dame had 8 in the first half the other night--it is why they are good. UConn too. It might just be that we have BAD coaching and BAD players.

It is very easy to be enamored with talent--most fans are, including myself. But talent doesn't mean squat if you don't produce.
 
#92
#92
issues of maturity or attitude, and I say 'if', they certainly just didn't start this year playing for HW. I don't buy that. If you have been around this game, or sports, then you should know, as I do, that is is often the kids who think they are the greatest who often prove not to be in action--because they don't bring the other qualities to the floor that truly great player must have. It's not just about being super-talented in high school. You should also know that being told how great you are from an early age is NOT a good thing and will generally prove detrimental to the player's performance and relationship to coaches and teammates over time. There are many, many examples.

Stewart went to UConn because she wanted to be pushed to be the best possible player she could be. DD went to NC because it would allow her to play her game with little or no interference. That, to me, says all that needs to be said about why one of them will succeed and the other likely not.
 
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#93
#93
We had a guard several years ago named Zolman who was not athletic and not an especially good player, but she gave us more than DD is giving us in most games because she was a good three-point shooter.

You're really underselling Zolman. She was a WNBA draft pick and played in the league for a couple of years, putting up respectable numbers.
 
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#95
#95
You're really underselling Zolman. She was a WNBA draft pick and played in the league for a couple of years, putting up respectable numbers.

And had she not had several ACL injuries would probably still be playing in San Antonio under coach Dan Hughes
 
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#96
#96
issues of maturity or attitude, and I say 'if', they certainly just didn't start this year playing for HW. I don't buy that. If you have been around this game, or sports, then you should know, as I do, that is is often the kids who think they are the greatest who often prove not to be in action--because they don't bring the other qualities to the floor that truly great player must have. It's not just about being super-talented in high school. You should also know that being told how great you are from an early age is NOT a good thing and will generally prove detrimental to the player's performance and relationship to coaches and teammates over time. There are many, many examples.

Stewart went to UConn because she wanted to be pushed to be the best possible player she could be. DD went to NC because it would allow her to play her game with little or no interference. That, to me, says all that needs to be said about why one of them will succeed and the other likely not.

Diamond chose UNC because it was the only school that would take the other 3 girls (who she played on the Olympic team with and they all made it known they wanted to attend the same school) UNC was the only school that had scholarships to take all 4 players (and that wanted all 4 players) so making it seem like she avoided wanting to get better is ridiculous
 
#97
#97
You're really underselling Zolman. She was a WNBA draft pick and played in the league for a couple of years, putting up respectable numbers.

Actually, Zolman is a great success for the LVs. She came in as an underdeveloped freshman, though with a deadly shot (putting up 30 I believe in a POG effort against Standford).

She worked her butt over the next three years to develop her athleticism and quickness. And her work rate during games was outstanding. You can compare her to Dunbar, who stands around and is easy to cover versus Zolman who ran a marathon every game and wore defenders out who chased her. She become a solid defender and even become a passable emergency PG in her senior year when Hornbuckle went down with an injury. And she was doing well in the WNBA prior to her knee injuries. This current team would be ever so lucky to have someone with Zolman's traits right now.
 
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#98
#98
And had she not had several ACL injuries would probably still be playing in San Antonio under coach Dan Hughes


Outside of hitting open three-point shots, she didn't impress me. She didn't handle the ball terribly well and didn't have the athleticism to be a good shooting guard. I look at her and others--Spani, for example--as evidence of the falloff in our recruiting. Could we use her shooting now? Yes, we could, but her game was very limited.
 
#99
#99
I think one reason DD gets pulled relatively quickly is that once she is getting out of control, it becomes worse and worse. With some of the other players, they goof up and then do better if left in. DD does not seem to be one of those.

It must be difficult being born into a family that is so athletically accomplished. So many expectations, so much pressure. Plenty of money to try things, to commit to working on a skill. However, sometimes the kindest thing you can do for your young adult child is...nothing. Let them solve their problem. (Of course, this does not apply if they have mental health problems. Then you get them the best help available.)
 
Outside of hitting open three-point shots, she didn't impress me. She didn't handle the ball terribly well and didn't have the athleticism to be a good shooting guard. I look at her and others--Spani, for example--as evidence of the falloff in our recruiting. Could we use her shooting now? Yes, we could, but her game was very limited.
Zo, Spani and Angie were all similar in skill to Dunbar and Pat found the way to get them on the court and use them so why can't this staff figure out how to use Dunbar.
 
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