Chris Kyle: American hero or

[SamRebel35]

I guess at this point the question should be.....for the ones that don't see him as a hero, why not?

I don't think it is wise to teach young Americans that all you need to do to gain fame, adoration, and notoriety from an entire nation of your peers is to go to the desert and shoot brown people with a sniper rifle. What he did may have been necessary from a tactical standpoint at the time. Taking lives, even ones that our country deems as evil, should never be done with a flippant or callous attitude. It is still a human person with skin and bones.

 

[SamRebel35]

I know I know... "Shut up Communist! Go get beheaded by ISIS you unpatriotic bastard!"

 

[jp1]

I don't think it is wise to teach young Americans that all you need to do to gain fame, adoration, and notoriety from an entire nation of your peers is to go to the desert and shoot brown people with a sniper rifle. What he did may have been necessary from a tactical standpoint at the time. Taking lives, even ones that our country deems as evil, should never be done with a flippant or callous attitude. It is still a human person with skin and bones.

So is that how it happened?

 

[Grand Vol]

I don't think it is wise to teach young Americans that all you need to do to gain fame, adoration, and notoriety from an entire nation of your peers is to go to the desert and shoot brown people with a sniper rifle. What he did may have been necessary from a tactical standpoint at the time. Taking lives, even ones that our country deems as evil, should never be done with a flippant or callous attitude. It is still a human person with skin and bones.

So it's wiser to teach young Americans in order to gain fame, adoration and notoriety is to be a straight gutter slut like Miley Cyrus or demean women every chance they get like Kanye or Jay-Z?

Military service is an honorable profession given the right reasons. And those that choose to be the best like SEALs, Special Forces, Pararescue and the like should be held up and emulated as an example to all. The taking of life should certainly never be flippant or callous. But at the same time it is a necessary evil of the job. Nobody ever denied the fact Audie Murphy was a hero that was held up for emulation. And he likely has a body count much higher than any serving member of the military today.

 

[SamRebel35]

So it's wiser to teach young Americans in order to gain fame, adoration and notoriety is to be a straight gutter slut like Miley Cyrus or demean women every chance they get like Kanye or Jay-Z?

No, I don't think these are good things either, but on their face, they don't involve killing people.

 

[Weezer]

I don't think it is wise to teach young Americans that all you need to do to gain fame, adoration, and notoriety from an entire nation of your peers is to go to the desert and shoot brown people with a sniper rifle. What he did may have been necessary from a tactical standpoint at the time. Taking lives, even ones that our country deems as evil, should never be done with a flippant or callous attitude. It is still a human person with skin and bones.

I guess it's all in how you teach your children. My way would be to tell them war is an evil thing that sometimes becomes necessary. It makes good men do bad things, but they do these things in an attempt to create a better world. Hopefully his aim was true, and innocent lives were spared, but he certainly helped protect and at times save the lives of his fellow soldiers. That he protected his fellow soldiers alone is heroic in my mind. You can debate whether we belonged there or not, but that decision was made by politicians. Soldiers don't get to make that decision. We throw them into hell and ask them not only to survive, but to win as well. Chris Kyle survived. He helped fellow soldiers survive. Whether or not we won anything is up for debate.

Kyle may have had a bit of hubris, never an attractive quality, but he did his duty, and by all accounts, with distinction. Dislike his character if you want, but we should never discount his service to his country. Maybe it's because I grew up in a military family, but I do see him as somewhat of a hero. I hate to use the term outright hero because I put no one on that pedestal. Even the most heroic are still human, capable of fallibility. But I do believe he did heroic things in his life.


And no, I don't think you're a communist, nor should you be beheaded by ISIS.

 

[Grand Vol]

No, I don't think these are good things either, but on their face, they don't involve killing people.

Yeah, no rapper ever talked about shooting people, like ever.

Point being is that Kyle had a lot better attributes than so called "role models" that should be emulated. Once he got out, he worked with veterans with PTSD almost full time. And that's something that's not been discussed that much in this thread much. Or the fact he dedicated his life to the military which is something most never do. Or when he was serving his country, he wanted to be the best and went through hell to wear that SEAL Trident on his uniform.

There are plenty of positive attributes of the late Chris Kyle that could be talked about, but people on here are focusing on a single part of his service time.

 

[Grand Vol]

And before you mention it Sam, I know how you feel about military service not being that honorable and all. It's a job like any other and no more honorable than the local dog catcher.

I think if you had served (or might still could, I don't know) you'd have a different perspective on this.

 

[Weezer]

No, I don't think these are good things either, but on their face, they don't involve killing people.

Your family's home alone and an armed robber breaks in with the intent to kill them. A passing police officer notices the disturbance, rushes in, and shoots the assailant dead before he can harm your family. Do you consider him a hero?

 

[SamRebel35]

Military service is an honorable profession given the right reasons...

What are the right reasons?

 

[Weezer]

And before you mention it Sam, I know how you feel about military service not being that honorable and all. It's a job like any other and no more honorable than the local dog catcher.

I think if you had served (or might still could, I don't know) you'd have a different perspective on this.

My personal belief, and this is only my opinion, but military service is extremely honorable. I don't think most understand the sacrifice those in the military make. They get deployed to the most dangerous places in the world, spend far too much time away from their families, and do it all in service to their country. Sometimes, I wonder if people truly believe we could just do away with our military and survive as a country? Just because we aren't fighting a huge world war like those of the past currently, it doesn't mean a time like that won't come again. The men of our military, every branch of service, are vastly underappreciated.

 

[jp1]

I don't think it is wise to teach young Americans that all you need to do to gain fame, adoration, and notoriety from an entire nation of your peers is to go to the desert and shoot brown people with a sniper rifle. What he did may have been necessary from a tactical standpoint at the time. Taking lives, even ones that our country deems as evil, should never be done with a flippant or callous attitude. It is still a human person with skin and bones.

First off if Chris Kyle was a trained sniper with an intent to kill all "brown people" who was strong enough to pick up a gun and only kill 160 I would say he was a piss poor shot. The man had multiple tours in combat situations. Who calls them "brown people" anyway? Well I just googled Chris Kyle and "brown people" and low and behold every critic of his used that term. That is very telling to me. So is he a racist now too? I had originally thought he was just a lowly coward, liar and murderer.

And we wonder why we have problems as a society.

 

[Weezer]

What are the right reasons?

Service and sacrifice to country. A soldier does not get to choose his battles. They are subject to the whims of politicians. The only choice they have is to make the best of a bad situation. If you don't like the wars we wage, write your congressmen. I promise you, soldiers do not enjoy going to war anymore than you enjoy seeing them fighting those wars.

 

[SamRebel35]

So is that how it happened?

If I'm being forced to argue without consideration of gray area, then yes. He went to the desert to kill brown people that our government gave him license to kill.

I freely acknowledge that there is a ton of gray area, but most in the "hero" camp are treating this like an open and shut case. No questions asked. In their black and white minds, he is a hero. I'm just tapping the breaks and trying to think my way through this. I have a hard time calling him a hero for the reasons I mentioned. That doesn't mean I think he is a murderous psychopath either, just not a hero.

 

[Grand Vol]

What are the right reasons?

How about patriotism? Or serving a higher purpose? Or because it is still considered one of the few honored professions out there despite your personal opinion.

Let's face it, nobody joins for the money, the fame or because they want to look snazzy in the Marine Dress Blues. (which I'll admit, the Marines have the cornerstone on sharp uniforms) Do you think Kyle joined in hopes of some day becoming a SEAL and furthermore a sniper and writing a book about his experiences? Or that he wanted to kill people?

Most of those that join know they might have to pull that trigger on someone eventually and accept that as part of the job. But I'd be willing to bet the vast majority don't join because they want to kill people. And those that do are typically weeded out fairly quickly as you can see them coming a mile away.

 

[Grand Vol]

The men of our military, every branch of service, are vastly underappreciated.

And women...

 

[Grand Vol]

If I'm being forced to argue without consideration of gray area, then yes. He went to the desert to kill brown people that our government gave him license to kill.

I freely acknowledge that there is a ton of gray area, but most in the "hero" camp are treating this like an open and shut case. No questions asked. In their black and white minds, he is a hero. I'm just tapping the breaks and trying to think my way through this. I have a hard time calling him a hero for the reasons I mentioned. That doesn't mean I think he is a murderous psychopath either, just not a hero.

You realize by continuing to use the term "brown people" you are pretty much shutting out anyone who can have a rational debate with you about this? Nobody can take your arguments seriously when you try to play the race card.

Don't make this a race thing Sam. A sniper's job is to take out threats regardless of a skin color.

 

[jp1]

If I'm being forced to argue without consideration of gray area, then yes. He went to the desert to kill brown people that our government gave him license to kill.

I freely acknowledge that there is a ton of gray area, but most in the "hero" camp are treating this like an open and shut case. No questions asked. In their black and white minds, he is a hero. I'm just tapping the breaks and trying to think my way through this. I have a hard time calling him a hero for the reasons I mentioned. That doesn't mean I think he is a murderous psychopath either, just not a hero.

So am I reading that youre not saying he is or isn't a hero because you don't know all the facts of what did happen to him during the war? You are just reserving judgement based on those questions?

If that is what youre saying then I'm good with that. I am not good with any poster dragging his name through the mud because they think the war was unjust or whatever crazy reason I have read up to this point.

 

[SamRebel35]

Service and sacrifice to country. A soldier does not get to choose his battles. They are subject to the whims of politicians. The only choice they have is to make the best of a bad situation. If you don't like the wars we wage, write your congressmen. I promise you, soldiers do not enjoy going to war anymore than you enjoy seeing them fighting those wars.

Define sacrifice. And as for their "choices", you are basically saying they are robots. They can't control their own brain. That they don't have free will. If they aren't in control of their decisions, then how can we ever call them heroes. He might as well have been a machine on a hill being controlled by someone a million miles away if he didn't have any choice in the matter.

 

[Grand Vol]

Define sacrifice. And as for their "choices", you are basically saying they are robots. They can't control their own brain. That they don't have free will. If they aren't in control of their decisions, then how can we ever call them heroes. He might as well have been a machine on a hill being controlled by someone a million miles away if he didn't have any choice in the matter.

It's really sad you never served.

 

[SamRebel35]

So am I reading that youre not saying he is or isn't a hero because you don't know all the facts of what did happen to him during the war? You are just reserving judgement based on those questions?

Not really. I think the facts are in for the most part (at least the relevant ones). I still don't know how I feel about it, though. It is just hard for me to wrap my head around it as being heroic.

 

[jp1]

Define sacrifice. And as for their "choices", you are basically saying they are robots. They can't control their own brain. That they don't have free will. If they aren't in control of their decisions, then how can we ever call them heroes. He might as well have been a machine on a hill being controlled by someone a million miles away if he didn't have any choice in the matter.

Seriously? That is a pretty dumbass question and I have given you the benefit of the doubt to this point.

Sacrifice? Because he had a choice it wasnt a sacrifice? Stand in his shoes for 1 second and then re-ask your ridiculous question.

 

[jp1]

Not really. I think the facts are in for the most part (at least the relevant ones). I still don't know how I feel about it, though. It is just hard for me to wrap my head around it as being heroic.

Layout these facts....im all ears (or eyes in this case).

 

[SamRebel35]

It's really sad you never served.

I'm cool with it, believe me.

 

[Grand Vol]

You all do realize a Quiet Professional has voiced his opinion twice in this thread about whether or not Kyle was considered a hero?

And that's an opinion I'd take every day of the week and twice on Sunday over anyone else as they have far more standing to talk about it than most on here.