Chris Kyle: American hero or

#52
#52
YorkVol said:
What did he brag about? I'm reading his book and he tells some stories but I'm not seeing too much boasting.
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I was never special operations but I do know some people that are (Radio Recon through my jobfield and Green Beret/Ranger through separate family ties).

From what all of them have said, in that community, Kyle is seen as an embellisher and a braggart. That, unfortunately, tends to skew and devalue what you did do that is a legitimate measure of accomplishments. To them, just writing a book about what you did is enough to be seen as bragging. Same thing happened to Andy McNab when he wrote Bravo Two Zero. To most in that community, what you do stays in that community. Their experiences are their bond and their fraternity... something even fellow service members aren't "invited to", and rightfully so. You don't write a book about what, really, they all did and profit from it.

It's the same heirarchy that separates grunts from pogs. SF operators are their own caste and they (at least the ones I know) see this book as nothing but bragging and a money grab. They don't take kindly to it.

Also, I fully recognize that this is anecdotal and my posterior will not be in pain if anyone dismisses it outright.
 
#54
#54
I've never served. So my opinion is moot I guess.

I have a great deal of respect for all the men and women who are and have served in the military. I don't know enough about this man or his story. What I do know is that he (and many others) have done things that I am not capable of doing. And for that I consider him and the others as hero's.

My hat comes off to him and the like....

I'll be watching the movie tonight...
 
#56
#56
hog88 said:
Then so should you.
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Negative, I never killed nor ordered anyone to kill an individual simply because they were a male between the ages of 15 and 55. Chris Kyle is on the record as saying he did. I find that not only criminal but repulsive.
 
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#57
#57
therealUT said:
Negative, I never killed nor ordered anyone to kill an individual simply because they were a male between the ages of 15 and 55. Chris Kyle is on the record as saying he did. I find that not only criminal but repulsive.
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I call it effective.
 
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#58
#58
hog88 said:
I call it effective.
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I call it a good way to piss off a local populace and fill the ranks of your enemy.

Which, in turn, is a horrible way to fight a war and especially a horrible way to fight a "Hearts and Minds" occupation campaign.
 
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#59
#59
agent|orange said:
I call it a good way to piss off a local populace and fill the ranks of your enemy.

Which, in turn, is a horrible way to fight a war and especially a horrible way to fight a "Hearts and Minds" occupation campaign.
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Enlisted generally do not have the opportunity to consult in how wars are waged. Calling an enlisted man following legal orders a "war criminal" is asinine.

Want to debate doing so for the officers who issued and approved the orders, ok.
 
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#60
#60
hog88 said:
Enlisted generally do not have the opportunity to consult in how wars are waged. Calling an enlisted man following legal orders a "war criminal" is asinine.

Want to debate doing so for the officers who issued and approved the orders, ok.
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He was able to operate with a large amount of impunity given his position. He wasn't a rank-file fobbit.

The Haditha killers were all enlisted and are war criminals.

I don't see a difference except the scale of it.
 
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#61
#61
agent|orange said:
He was able to operate with a large amount of impunity given his position. He wasn't a rank-file fobbit.

The Haditha killers were all enlisted and are war criminals.

I don't see a difference except the scale of it.
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I do. I will defend his actions in theater.
 
#62
#62
Whether he is a hero or not is beside the point imo. I wish nobody knew his name or what he did. I wish we didn't have generations being raised with the notion that being in the American military and fighting "for your country" is morally superior to any other occupation that doesn't involve killing people and risking your life "for your country".
 
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#65
#65
SamRebel35 said:
There are plenty of imprisoned mass murderers that would have the balls to do it too. Is "having the balls" what makes this guy a hero?
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Hero is a word used way to often IMO.

Mass murderers generally don't have people returning fire.
 
#66
#66
SamRebel35 said:
There are plenty of imprisoned mass murderers that would have the balls to do it too. Is "having the balls" what makes this guy a hero?
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There are very few (if any) mass murderers who can withstand the training ( have the balls) the SEALS do.
 
#70
#70
SamRebel35 said:
I guess I interpreted "having the balls" to be a euphemism for possessing the mental capacity to kill lots of people in the desert with a sniper rifle.
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Another, hey I don't have a frigging clue what I'm talking about post.
 
#71
#71
agent|orange said:
I call it a good way to piss off a local populace and fill the ranks of your enemy.

Which, in turn, is a horrible way to fight a war and especially a horrible way to fight a "Hearts and Minds" occupation campaign.
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I take it you and Trut have converted. Praise Allah
 
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#72
#72
hog88 said:
Another, hey I don't have a frigging clue what I'm talking about post.
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I don't get why you're butthurt about what I said. The guy I quoted said 'he had the balls to do the deed" or some such machismo nonsense. I interpreted that to mean that the difference between this guy and others was that he had the mental capability to flip a switch and kill people as if he were the terminator. My point is that mass murderers are capable of doing the same thing. Thus, either mass murderers are capable of being heros in a different situation, or "having the balls" is not what it means to be a hero.
 
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#73
#73
govols/cc said:
I take it you and Trut have converted. Praise Allah
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Converted?

No, I just don't see how killing innocents willfully is a good way to wage a military action where your goal is winning the "hearts and minds" of the local populace.

We were there as freedom granters... not invading subjectors... remember?

Or are we just outright admitting we were invading subjectors. Because that changes the tone of the engagement and moral backbone that should be guiding this nation. That would be a direct antithesis to what this nation was founded against.
 
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#74
#74
SamRebel35 said:
I don't get why you're butthurt about what I said. The guy I quoted said 'he had the balls to do the deed" or some such machismo nonsense. I interpreted that to mean that the difference between this guy and others was that he had the mental capability to flip a switch and kill people as if he were the terminator. My point is that mass murderers are capable of doing the same thing. Thus, either mass murderers are capable of being heros in a different situation, or "having the balls" is not what it means to be a hero.
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Again, most of the mass murders in prison today never had anyone returning fire. Just a little distinction there.
 
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