China's economic problems

#32
#32
Thunder Good-Oil said:
It won’t surprise me if they use their biological weaponry to cull their non productive old citizens.
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Given what they did with unborn girls or children with disabilities under the one child program, euthanasia for old people would be par for the course. Morally bankrupt leadership eventually poisons the whole society.
 
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#33
#33
volbound1700 said:
I was in a conversation the other day were Trump supporters were calling W Bush the worse President for starting the Globalization stuff so you can see where that stands.

I will state that China doesn't play fair and kind of broke Capitalism. I also think China has ulterior motives similar to the USSR. We didn't open all this trade to the USSR back in the day, I am not sure why we gave an exception to China when they are basically just like the Soviet Union.
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china never broke capitalism. they never had it from the start. we broke it. as the biggest economy, and longest lasting "laise faire" what we did has far more impact.

we opened up trade with China to pull them away from the USSR. they were pretty divided but without much difference to actually separate them, until we opened up the markets. it was the same short term mindset we still have to this day. fund the enemy of an enemy today, and hope they don't become the enemy of tomorrow.
 
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#34
#34
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I think that you’re mixing up capitalism with corporatism. The globalists from both parties love the corporatism.

Even capitalist economies are going to be managed by governments. Tariffs are simply something in the tool box.
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why would I be mixing up capitalism with corporatism?

we are supposed to be a capitalistic society, everything Trump is doing is pushing us away from that, and maybe into a more corporatist economy. I can't say for sure, because I can't tell if Trump really has a plan, but its not a more open economy with less government involvement, aka capitalist.

Trump didn't inherit an economy with no standards, he is taking an economy already buckling under the red tape and government involvement, and adding to it. at least in his first go around he removed some red tape/overreach but he hasn't done that yet this time.
 
#35
#35
LouderVol said:
why would I be mixing up capitalism with corporatism?

we are supposed to be a capitalistic society, everything Trump is doing is pushing us away from that, and maybe into a more corporatist economy. I can't say for sure, because I can't tell if Trump really has a plan, but its not a more open economy with less government involvement, aka capitalist.

Trump didn't inherit an economy with no standards, he is taking an economy already buckling under the red tape and government involvement, and adding to it. at least in his first go around he removed some red tape/overreach but he hasn't done that yet this time.
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Why? Because your hatred of all things Trump has distorted any logic that you might have had.

How would the proposed tax policy of immediate write offs of manufacturing investment be anti-capitalistic?
 
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#36
#36
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Why? Because your hatred of all things Trump has distorted any logic that you might have had.

How would the proposed tax policy of immediate write offs of manufacturing investment be anti-capitalistic?
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yeah, you got me on the semantics of using an absolute. got anything to say about the meat of the conversation?

but that is not the only thing Trump has done. and definitely isn't the biggest/most impactful. tariffs are anti-capitalistic. made in america is anti-capitalistic. making bribes legal isn't capitalistic, at least if you believe in a fair/level market.
 
#37
#37
LouderVol said:
yeah, you got me on the semantics of using an absolute. got anything to say about the meat of the conversation?

but that is not the only thing Trump has done. and definitely isn't the biggest/most impactful. tariffs are anti-capitalistic. made in america is anti-capitalistic. making bribes legal isn't capitalistic, at least if you believe in a fair/level market.
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Do unto others 10 fold what they have done unto you is capitalism at its finest.
 
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#38
#38
LouderVol said:
yeah, you got me on the semantics of using an absolute. got anything to say about the meat of the conversation?

but that is not the only thing Trump has done. and definitely isn't the biggest/most impactful. tariffs are anti-capitalistic. made in america is anti-capitalistic. making bribes legal isn't capitalistic, at least if you believe in a fair/level market.
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how do you make china use capitalism??? Capitalism is a strong US ideal...no other country is forced to use it...so why would we apply capitalist ideology to anywhere outside the US or countries that want to implement it??? Your fighting a trade economic war against counties that promote child and slave labor..are those ideals of capitalism?
 
#39
#39
hog88 said:
Do unto others 10 fold what they have done unto you is capitalism at its finest.
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even when it causes you 20 fold damage? and by extending the federal government's power, and impact on the individual's life?

there are ways to "get back at" China that still would be capitalistic. Trump is just choosing not to go that route.
 
#40
#40
whodeycin85 said:
how do you make china use capitalism??? Capitalism is a strong US ideal...no other country is forced to use it...so why would we apply capitalist ideology to anywhere outside the US or countries that want to implement it??? Your fighting a trade economic war against counties that promote child and slave labor..are those ideals of capitalism?
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so you admit that China uses a different standard than the US, but you still want to hold them to a standard held by the US. that doesn't make sense.

you don't make anyone do much of anything under capitalism. that's what makes it different than pretty much any other system. our economy has been a lot closer to what you would expect from a communist country than anything approaching capitalism. any type of insurance is just socializing individual risk. government restrictions, fees or taxes, on who you trade with is a piece of a centralized economy. all the warning labels, subsidies, and government red tape, are part of control while not providing value. Big Pharma, the MIC, and the like with all the protectionism that comes thru/for them show we are much more a corporatist economy than capitalism which favors the individual.

just calling our system "capitalism" doesn't make it so. its like saying we are a democracy. that isn't the truth, we are a republic that uses some democratic processes in a controlled setting under a standard of laws. we are a corporatist economy that uses some capitalistic processes in a controlled setting under a standard of laws.

if whatever piece or part of the economy isn't providing a value to the end user, its not capitalism. there are pieces and parts of an America-first strategy that could provide that value. but right now they are washed away under more government control which is just a net step away from capitalism.
 
#41
#41
LouderVol said:
even when it causes you 20 fold damage? and by extending the federal government's power, and impact on the individual's life?

there are ways to "get back at" China that still would be capitalistic. Trump is just choosing not to go that route.
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How much of if any damage to us has yet to be determined, but typically no. A little short term pain for a long term gain is acceptable and sometimes you have to play chicken.
 
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#42
#42
hog88 said:
How much of if any damage to us has yet to be determined, but typically no. A little short term pain for a long term gain is acceptable and sometimes you have to play chicken.
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Trump doesn't have a handle on what the long term implications of anything are. heck, I would argue he doesn't really understand the short term implications. his style is to throw more crap on the wall and hope more of it sticks than falls off.

like I said, if he had some sort of plan he could articulate and stick to, I would be more willing to buy of some long term gains and be fine with it. right now it reeks of "doing something to do something" mindset.
 
#43
#43
I don't see Capitalism as a system people embrace, I see it as the default economic path and every other economic system just modifies capitalism with different levels of government interference. This is how Adam Smith treated it. He didn't even praise the system, he just cited it as the natural economic system.
 
#45
#45
hog88 said:
How much of if any damage to us has yet to be determined, but typically no. A little short term pain for a long term gain is acceptable and sometimes you have to play chicken.
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It's incredible the amount of faith you put in your government run by a man who literally can't talk about anything (the Declaration of Independence, Alcatraz, Baron and his laptop, his own memecoin, photoshop, the laws, etc.) without sounding like a senile idiot.
 
#46
#46
n_huffhines said:
It's incredible the amount of faith you put in your government run by a man who literally can't talk about anything (the Declaration of Independence, Alcatraz, Baron and his laptop, his own memecoin, photoshop, the laws, etc.) without sounding like a senile idiot.
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I have no faith in government or Trump, I only have hope that it will work out.
 
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#47
#47
hog88 said:
I have no faith in government or Trump, I only have hope that it will work out.
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To me, "you have to play chicken" is an endorsement that only one would give a leader they have faith in. I have some hope it will be OK, too, but no fkn way am I telling Trump he has to play chicken because he doesn't deserve that faith.
 
#48
#48
n_huffhines said:
To me, "you have to play chicken" is an endorsement that only one would give a leader they have faith in. I have some hope it will be OK, too, but no fkn way am I telling Trump he has to play chicken because he doesn't deserve that faith.
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Well considering it's you, I'm not surprised that you would interpret it that way.
 
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#49
#49
whodeycin85 said:
how do you make china use capitalism??? Capitalism is a strong US ideal...no other country is forced to use it...so why would we apply capitalist ideology to anywhere outside the US or countries that want to implement it??? Your fighting a trade economic war against counties that promote child and slave labor..are those ideals of capitalism?
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Child and slave labor are neither antithetical nor essential to capitalism. We and other capitalist economies have had both as have the USSR and other communist economies.
 
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