Cheek, Hart.........Jones

[81Orange]

Butch created none if the real issues in the T9 suit. He was just the HC when past issues were trumped up and had to deal with it. Butch has done a great job with off field issues since he has been here.
This T9 suit was just a quick payday for the plantif legal team. This is not to belittle the women that were really injured in this. I am guessing they got less than deserved after the lawyers were paid. What POd me was I don't believe there was any lack of institutional control. There was no blind eye on the issues.

 

[TNnative]

Well sorry i took away your argument by showing im not really stupid so you could continue on. To me, your argument seems to suggest that CBJ only did the right thing because he had no choice. I tend to believe he did the right thing because it was the right thing to do. We always have choices regardless of the situation.

I see you on that last sentence. But trust me, being up here and seeing how the media coverage was flying all over this incident? There was no other SANE choice. It seemed like Anita was trying to be the next Greta Van Sussterrin (sp?) getting famous over covering OJ. Calling trying to get bowl eligible a choice is like wishing I had driven home drunk last night and gotten arrested for it. Breakfast in the county jail is not on my bucket list.

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

i don't think we should use bowl games as any measuring stick. you have to be .500 to get in a bowl and this year you just had to be 5-7.

I don't think that's necessarily fair. I think with there being so many bowls it's actually a very good measuring stick still. At this point, if we don't make a bowl game it's been a nightmare season. If we go to some bowl played at 2 PM on a Wednesday it's been an extremely disappointing season. If we go to a prime time bowl on New Year's Ever or Day against a top 15 or top 10 opponent, we've had a great season.

Bowls are great measuring stick still, if you ask me.

 

[TNnative]

Butch created none if the real issues in the T9 suit. He was just the HC when past issues were trumped up and had to deal with it. Butch has done a great job with off field issues since he has been here.
This T9 suit was just a quick payday for the plantif legal team. This is not to belittle the women that were really injured in this. I am guessing they got less than deserved after the lawyers were paid. What POd me was I don't believe there was any lack of institutional control. There was no blind eye on the issues.

You are correct. However, there was a media witch hunt throwing speculation to promote rumor. And it came from news sources I would not mind if UT sports limited their future access to players, coaches, and facilities. They were suppose to be legitimate news sources, not tabloids. And the fine line between the two got blurred in this instance.

 

[volfannbama]

I see you on that last sentence. But trust me, being up here and seeing how the media coverage was flying all over this incident? There was no other SANE choice. It seemed like Anita was trying to be the next Greta Van Sussterrin (sp?) getting famous over covering OJ. Calling trying to get bowl eligible a choice is like wishing I had driven home drunk last night and gotten arrested for it. Breakfast in the county jail is not on my bucket list.

Yeah, I don't live in Knoxville but I try to keep up with the coverage. The reason I bring up bowl eligibility was because during that time that was huge for CBJ. We were 5-5 with 2 games left. We knew Mizzo was likely a lose and Vandy would be tough. Had we not made a bowl that season, support for CBJ would have swung really bad really quick. The team was not that good and AJ was the best player we had. Losing him was awful for the team. Given that pressure, I could see a coach trying to slow the process or talk their way out of it until we get a win. CBJ didn't do that and it pays off in the long run.
Now I don't think CBJ is a very good football coach but he appears to be really good at dealing with this stuff and setting a good moral example for the players.

 

[AngryButchJones]

I think Currie's first hire will be in baseball. Then in football. Then women's basketball. We have a changing landscape in the future here at UT.

 

[TNnative]

I don't think that's necessarily fair. I think with there being so many bowls it's actually a very good measuring stick still. At this point, if we don't make a bowl game it's been a nightmare season. If we go to some bowl played at 2 PM on a Wednesday it's been an extremely disappointing season. If we go to a prime time bowl on New Year's Ever or Day against a top 15 or top 10 opponent, we've had a great season.

Bowls are great measuring stick still, if you ask me.

With most bowls, you aren't measuring a whole lot anymore. It is a great experience for the players, and a reward for their hard work. If it measures anything, it is how well the host city shines at organizing a sporting event. For fans who make time to watch, it is the final chance to feast on college football before we have to go cold turkey. Some of the lesser bowls have really cool trophies to bring home. And draft hopefuls get to play in front of the scouts one more time. So there is value in the product in many ways.

But as a measuring stick? It's about like the opening scene of "Porky's". And Pee Wee might be right about it getting shorter.

 

[savannahfan]

The old adage that bad luck comes in 3's could be true for old Butch. They represent the three faces of the Title IX lawsuit which embarrassed the university and cost it millions. Maybe it's just a hunch, but I think CBJ is on a very short leash, and not just because he went 8-4 and missed the Sugar Bowl because he couldn't beat Vandy.

New Chancellor, new AD, new coach?

Any way that's my 2 cents.

Glad you but just 2 cents on this statement. Seem to be one of the people just looking for a way, any way to get rid of Jones...

 

[joevol33]

I think that CBJ will be here for several more years at least,he has retooled his coaching staff,been to consecutive bowl games,on his way to getting UT respected once again,did he fall short this past season ? yes,but there was a crap load of injuries to go along with that

i'm thinking at least 3 years more,gotta give those new coaches time to recruit and get the players in the system and no,I don't much much stock into freshmen recruits being able to help much,a few do,most don't

I forget which thread it was in,but they were saying part of the SEC slipping was the turnover of coaches,so with CBJ improving things,who would they get if he was fired ?

Agree

 

[johnrlansford]

I think Mason is a good coach.

Mason is 13-24 as a Head Coach???

Franklin went
6-7
9-4
9-4

The previous seasons to Mason getting there and Mason made his 1st Bowl this year. Hardly proven to be a good coach. He's probably on the Hot Seat this year.

 

[volfannbama]

Mason is 13-24 as a Head Coach???

Franklin went
6-7
9-4
9-4

The previous seasons to Mason getting there and Mason made his 1st Bowl this year. Hardly proven to be a good coach. He's probably on the Hot Seat this year.

The recruiting at Vandy has fallen off. That could be due to Mason's recruiting ability or the fact that Vandy will not sacrifice their reputation for football success like it did under Franklin. Either way, I still think Mason is a pretty good coach that gets the most of its players. He simply does not have a lot of talent.
I would guess there is only one NFL player on that team ZC, and he went 6-6 and beat a Tennessee team that has a few potential first round picks and NFL level talent all over the field.

 

[johnrlansford]

The recruiting at Vandy has fallen off. That could be due to Mason's recruiting ability or the fact that Vandy will not sacrifice their reputation for football success like it did under Franklin. Either way, I still think Mason is a pretty good coach that gets the most of its players. He simply does not have a lot of talent.
I would guess there is only one NFL player on that team ZC, and he went 6-6 and beat a Tennessee team that has a few potential first round picks and NFL level talent all over the field.

1 win over Tennessee doens't make him a good coach. Vandy is giving Mason all the the resources that they gave Franklin. 6-6 in year 3 at Tennessee would get you fired.

People think Mason is a good coach and Butch is horrible.
Mason had as much talent as Butch did when he got here, and a lot better situation for Mason than Butch. Mason made one bowl in 3 years has 1 winning record in 3 years and Mason is a good coach and Butch is garbage. Makes perfect sense!!! Go Vols!!!

 

[volfannbama]

1 win over Tennessee doens't make him a good coach. Vandy is giving Mason all the the resources that they gave Franklin. 6-6 in year 3 at Tennessee would get you fired.

People think Mason is a good coach and Butch is horrible.
Mason had as much talent as Butch did when he got here, and a lot better situation for Mason than Butch. Mason made one bowl in 3 years has 1 winning record in 3 years and Mason is a good coach and Butch is garbage. Makes perfect sense!!! Go Vols!!!

Its not about the resources. Its about the fact that if you recruit at a high level, you are going to hve more problems and Vandy is less willing to accept that risk as other SEC schools are.
I'm not comparing Mason to Franklin as clearly Franklin was the better coach. However, Franklin brought in a class ranked 22 in the country which helped his success and almost got him put in jail. Mason's classes range from 44-60. He does not have a lot of talent and he was not left a good situation, with 4 of his players in jail awaiting a rape charges in a dorm.
I don't think Jones is a horrible coach, I think he is a middle of the road coach. If you can find a quote from me ever calling CBJ garbage, please show me? I think that Mason gets more out of the talent he has than CBJ does.

 

[ScottyG210]

He needs to WIN more meaningful games than he LOSES...PERIOD!

Call it "short leash" or whatever you want...but "shuffling the cards beneath you" is only impressive a couple times...WINNING is the measure of the Job!

If you are continually shuffling the cards beneath you and still losing, at some point you have to look at the shuffler.

 

[TNnative]

Yeah, I don't live in Knoxville but I try to keep up with the coverage. The reason I bring up bowl eligibility was because during that time that was huge for CBJ. We were 5-5 with 2 games left. We knew Mizzo was likely a lose and Vandy would be tough. Had we not made a bowl that season, support for CBJ would have swung really bad really quick. The team was not that good and AJ was the best player we had. Losing him was awful for the team. Given that pressure, I could see a coach trying to slow the process or talk their way out of it until we get a win. CBJ didn't do that and it pays off in the long run.
Now I don't think CBJ is a very good football coach but he appears to be really good at dealing with this stuff and setting a good moral example for the players.

Actually, I think Butch can be a good coach. He needs to stick to a script in press conferences, because he opens mouth and inserts foot too often. I would rather he loose it like Dennis Green did after the Cardinals lost to the Bears that time just because some of those reporters ask dumb questions and deserve it.

He also needs to get past making excuses. He had to make far too many last year, and that is part of what led to the disappointment last year.

But like you, I think he is a moral man. Much more so than the last 4 football HCs put together. And I hope he puts the right people around him to prove he is the right man for the future. That is why I still support him.

 

[volfan102455]

OK, Einstein I will bite. What choice?

Well Baylor, FSU and Oklahoma handled things differently.

 

[volfan102455]

I think Currie's first hire will be in baseball. Then in football. Then women's basketball. We have a changing landscape in the future here at UT.

The baseball team is doing quite well this season. If that continues I don't see any change. Don't see any change in football as well .. unless the bottom falls out next season ... and Holly has a good group coming in - team is inconsistent but if they become consistent she wins big.

Just because there is a new AD doesn't imply immediate coaching changes or that the AD will align to the thinking that 9 wins are not enough that some of you hope for.

I believe the main concern that the Chancellor has and thus what she wants the AD to be concerned with is being in compliance with all the rules and avoiding any other issues / lawsuits.

Those things will destroy an athletic department / team much faster than win/loss record on the field of play.

I for one can handle losses on a the field but I would have trouble supporting student athletes who were labeled as thugs due to activities off the field. And I would not be pleased with a university that looked the other way to win. Winning is not worth the price of being THUG University.

 

[KBVol]

Mason is 13-24 as a Head Coach???

Franklin went
6-7
9-4
9-4

The previous seasons to Mason getting there and Mason made his 1st Bowl this year. Hardly proven to be a good coach. He's probably on the Hot Seat this year.

Mason is nowhere near a hotseat at Vandy, mainly due to their expectations there. He's coming off a season where he just beat Georgia, OleMiss and Tennessee. What you basing your opinion on? Makes no sense.

 

[TNnative]

Well Baylor, FSU and Oklahoma handled things differently.

We know how stupid the first two looked, can't remember the OU situation.

But if it is pretty much same 5h1t, different day? I rest my case.

 

[butchna]

We know how stupid the first two looked, can't remember the OU situation.

But if it is pretty much same 5h1t, different day? I rest my case.

OU situation should be top of mind when you note Mixon's absence at the Combine.

 

[TNnative]

The baseball team is doing quite well this season. If that continues I don't see any change. Don't see any change in football as well .. unless the bottom falls out next season ... and Holly has a good group coming in - team is inconsistent but if they become consistent she wins big.

Just because there is a new AD doesn't imply immediate coaching changes or that the AD will align to the thinking that 9 wins are not enough that some of you hope for.

I believe the main concern that the Chancellor has and thus what she wants the AD to be concerned with is being in compliance with all the rules and avoiding any other issues / lawsuits.

Those things will destroy an athletic department / team much faster than win/loss record on the field of play.

I for one can handle losses on a the field but I would have trouble supporting student athletes who were labeled as thugs due to activities off the field. And I would not be pleased with a university that looked the other way to win. Winning is not worth the price of being THUG University.

All good point that fall on deaf ears to fans with a personal agenda.

The chancellor, I believe, is looking to affect change to the culture that led to the Title IX issues. And she wants the AD to make sure every coach and player is educated and involved in leading the changes, because it is most visible when they run afoul of the rules and laws.

I always joke that the N on Nebraska's helmets stands for Knowledge. I don't find humor in someone one day saying the power T stands for Thug. And what a single fan like me thinks may not stand for much, but it stands for a little. And standing mute has not stopped the same old same old.

So maybe it is time, just for giggles and decency's sake, to see if we can put a dent in this. If we save one young lady from being raped, or one young man from wrecking his life, I call that a good day. And maybe that one person spared is someone you love.You never know......

 

[ImportedVoL]

Derek Mason

With his stigma of failing second half of season? He would already be fired by volnation in the least had we got him instead of jones.

Mattress burning stuff...just sayin

 

[barrylee]

Glad you but just 2 cents on this statement. Seem to be one of the people just looking for a way, any way to get rid of Jones...

It is amazing how no matter what goes on, there is always an opportunity to bash Jones and throw doubt about the length of his stay. Gets old..

 

[volfannbama]

Actually, I think Butch can be a good coach. He needs to stick to a script in press conferences, because he opens mouth and inserts foot too often. I would rather he loose it like Dennis Green did after the Cardinals lost to the Bears that time just because some of those reporters ask dumb questions and deserve it.

He also needs to get past making excuses. He had to make far too many last year, and that is part of what led to the disappointment last year.

But like you, I think he is a moral man. Much more so than the last 4 football HCs put together. And I hope he puts the right people around him to prove he is the right man for the future. That is why I still support him.

I think Butch can hire people to make him appear to be an above average coach, but I think he is a middle of the road coach. I think he would do well at an ACC program with lower expectations.
PR wise he is a disaster. He really needs to hire a PR guy or just quit trying to control the narrative and understand the situation you are him. To me its not even the putting his foot in his mouth with stupid comments. It more, never missing an opportunity to try and sell his accomplishment. For example after the MCB, why are you up there talking about 3 straight bowl wins since whenever? Just shut up and let your accomplishments speak for themselves. The issue is thus far his accomplishments don't speak as highly as the should and he knows it, thus attempting to sell them.
I appreciate what he has done here and have never said he should be fired, despite what people say about me. I simply don't think he is a very good coach. If we are winning games and don't have thugs running rampant off the field, I am good. I also don't expect SEC or national championships every year and I don't need 15 thousand threads attempting to explain our historical performance to excuse the loses. I would have been very happy had win finished 9-4 with a Sugar bowl lose and a win over Vandy. But we didn't. But as I have said many time, I hope Butch is the coach here 15 years and we have several SECE titles, a couple of SEC titles and some playoff appearance. I don't give a crap who the coach is, I just don't think CBJ will be here that long. He tends to underachieve and imo hasn't surrounded himself with coaches that will make up for it. Luckily for him, he is an excellent salesman who has sold a lot of people on the idea that we have not underachieved.

 

[volfannbama]

With his stigma of failing second half of season? He would already be fired by volnation in the least had we got him instead of jones.

Mattress burning stuff...just sayin

ok,

just so I'm clear, you consider going 4-2 with wins over UGA, Ol Miss and Tennessee failing the second half of the season?