Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

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#8,302
Orange_Crush said:
So, do you think that being in favor of strict border and immigration control is unloving? Do you think that being against DEI is unloving?
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@n_huffhines

If Jesus was held up as the perfect example and human embodiment of 'love', would you consider it of benefit to explore His ultimate expression and implementation of border security and immigration laws?
 
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#8,303
InVOLuntary said:
What are the ice agents doing? They are enforcing immigration laws. The fact they have to wear a mask to protect their identity says more about the public than it does them. What the hell difference does it make whether I'm arrested by someone with a mask or not? They have badges and identification on their uniforms.
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do they? I haven't seen anything saying the private contractors have to have any type of identification. and whats to stop ICE from hiding that stuff too?

if you are worried about their safety why have the identification? those who want to dox them can still do it with that info. ICE's faces in videos is superfluous if you already have their name and ID number.
 
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KB5252 said:
I can't agree there. Ice works against the interests of a multinational system of smugglers and traffickers and other aspects of organized crime. Their work often makes them targets of cartels and gangs foreign and domestic. That means they and their families are subject to retribution unless their identities are concealed within reason.

There are cases of organized crime conspiring to dox these agents and publish their information.
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have examples of this?

I can remember one shooting of a border patrol agent, but that was before ICE started these raids.
 
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LouderVol said:
do they? I haven't seen anything saying the private contractors have to have any type of identification. and whats to stop ICE from hiding that stuff too?

if you are worried about their safety why have the identification? those who want to dox them can still do it with that info. ICE's faces in videos is superfluous if you already have their name and ID number.
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ICE is not using contractors for enforcement or arrests. They are only using contractors in support and detention roles.
 
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#8,308
LouderVol said:
do they? I haven't seen anything saying the private contractors have to have any type of identification. and whats to stop ICE from hiding that stuff too?

if you are worried about their safety why have the identification? those who want to dox them can still do it with that info. ICE's faces in videos is superfluous if you already have their name and ID number.
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Because it's a lot harder to do someone simply from a last name, especially from a distance. Tom Homan said all their agents have identifying markings on their uniforms.

The immigrants aren't the danger here. Its the radical left working from afar with cameras.
 
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Orange_Crush said:
You're actually describing sympathy.

View attachment 776137

Trust me, you want sympathy from culture when there is no empathy. I may never know what it feels like to believe that I was born in the wrong body, but I can still have sympathy and concern, desiring for their best.

It's odd to me that the left have been asking for sympathy, compassion and inclusion for those that differ from us, and when Charlie makes a fairly blatant support for this concept, he's vilified for it by the left.

I believe this is one reason that the left is losing platform. Too many people are making these connections.
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They are almost exactly the same thing, but in one case you put yourself in the other person's shoes. That's the difference.

It's easy for us to put ourselves in the shoes of people like us, but the more different we are, the harder it becomes, and that is why empathy is such an important value. It's easy to look the other way when we disappear a humble carpenter to Alligator Alcatraz when you have no idea who he is, what his name is, what it's like to be an immigrant, maybe you have no idea what it's like to be poor, etc. Instead we got people giddy about AA. There's merch. This is not what good people do. This is not what true disciples of Christ would do. But that is what Kirk has deceived a generation of Christians into thinking is perfectly OK.

If we all can feel empathy for that person/tribe that is different than us, we're going to come to better solutions. Unless you're some kind of crazy person who thinks division is good.
 
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KB5252 said:
Why shouldn't they if their work puts them at elevated or extreme risk?

They aren't doing whatever they want, they are enforcing immigration policy.

If my political enemies are acting within the law they affecting within the law. That doesn't change. Immigration laws and enforcement never changed, they were just ignored under the prior administration.
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because they are the government and supposed to represent the highest standard in our country.

the government has fought the mob before. organized crime is not a new threat in this nation. our government has been able to combat them without a face mask.
 
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LouderVol said:
because they are the government and supposed to represent the highest standard in our country.

the government has fought the mob before. organized crime is not a new threat in this nation. our government has been able to combat them without a face mask.
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You realize that agents wear mask when busting drug rings for the exact same reason? It's standard procedure for years for fear of retribution from drug lords.
 
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n_huffhines said:
They are almost exactly the same thing, but in one case you put yourself in the other person's shoes. That's the difference.

It's easy for us to put ourselves in the shoes of people like us, but the more different we are, the harder it becomes, and that is why empathy is such an important value. It's easy to look the other way when we disappear a humble carpenter to Alligator Alcatraz when you have no idea who he is, what his name is, what it's like to be an immigrant, maybe you have no idea what it's like to be poor, etc. This is not what good people do. This is not what true disciples of Christ would do. But that is what Kirk has deceived a generation of Christians into thinking is perfectly OK.

If we all can feel empathy for that person/tribe that is different than us, we're going to come to better solutions. Unless you're some kind of crazy person who thinks division is good.
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It's a stupid criticism.


But now that I have your attention, can we discuss your accusations that Charlie's views broke the 2nd great law in scripture--i.e. love your neighbor as yourself?

You seem pretty liberal in trying to hold Christians guilty by your interpretations. I'd love a deeper discussion on this. I'd appreciate it if you would stop ignoring the requests to discuss your accusations. The rules are that we use Christian canon and discuss the Jesus revealed there, as opposed to the Mormon Jesus that was a created being, and the spirit-brother of Lucifer.

Appreciations in advance.
 
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InVOLuntary said:
What are the ice agents doing? They are enforcing immigration laws. The fact they have to wear a mask to protect their identity says more about the public than it does them. What the hell difference does it make whether I'm arrested by someone with a mask or not? They have badges and identification on their uniforms.
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You sound like a real Stasi fanboy.
They don't have to wear masks.
 
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#8,318
hog88 said:
ICE is not using contractors for enforcement or arrests. They are only using contractors in support and detention roles.
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and we can trust them because they are the government...and wearing masks.

its not like our government has used private contractors to do shady things they aren't allowed to do before...
 
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InVOLuntary said:
Because it's a lot harder to do someone simply from a last name, especially from a distance. Tom Homan said all their agents have identifying markings on their uniforms.

The immigrants aren't the danger here. Its the radical left working from afar with cameras.
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if you have their name, you can find their address via public records or find their socials.

with their picture you have to run facial recognition software, or simply go mining thru who knows how much data......to get their name and then address.
 
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#8,320
hog88 said:
How do they know they're facing the person that arrested them?
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The actual person is not the defining issue in the court room, it is the law they broke. The mask being worn for an agent's safety is not prohibiting that in any way.
 
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KB5252 said:
I can't agree there. Ice works against the interests of a multinational system of smugglers and traffickers and other aspects of organized crime. Their work often makes them targets of cartels and gangs foreign and domestic. That means they and their families are subject to retribution unless their identities are concealed within reason.

There are cases of organized crime conspiring to dox these agents and publish their information.
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Snatching young female editorialists off the street, and 99.9% of the other arrests they make, don't warrant anonymity.
 
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n_huffhines said:
View attachment 776135

All you have to do is identify with her feeling of loss and feel some of it with her. You don't have to feel exactly what she's feeling or 100% comprehend it. All empathy means is that you feel awful for her mixed with compassion.

Kirk said some wild things about empathy, and it seems those ideas caught on.
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No, you must understand it.

I disagree, that's what sympathy best defines

And I never heard much of what Kirk said before his death. My observations about empathy and sympathy predate his statements.

Empathy- the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

Sympathy- feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.

They are related but distinctly different things.....
 
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EasternVol said:
Snatching young female editorialists off the street, and 99.9% of the other arrests they make, don't warrant anonymity.
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If they had reason to believe they were illegal it was within their legally defined enforcement duties. If they were not it's a mistake and those involved should be punished and reprimanded/disciplined. Their superiors should be held accountable for reporting this as well. If they do not or are not forthcoming they should be held accountable as well.
 
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