Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

[Orange Maniac]

If I remember correctly.

Floyd was saying I can’t breathe?

At this point Floyd is handcuffed and not a threat, so why then did Chauvin feel the need to keep his knee on Floyd’s back and neck?

I also recall another man dying while handcuffed and a cop with his knee on his back and neck. If I remember correctly the cops were making jokes and laughing while the man was dying.

The best course of action for Chauvin would have been to get off Floyd once handcuffed and not a threat.

If you go watch the whole thing from beginning to end, from all the bodycam footage, Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe a long time before he was on the ground. This began when they tried to put him in the back seat of the police car. All of this evidence was released much later after the chaos had already happened. He was having an episode called chest lock or something like that because he was OD'ing. This was compounded by the ambulance going to the wrong location at first. Yes, he was struggling to breathe but I don't feel it was from the knee. The cops didn't recognize what was happening since he was struggling so much. I don't think the police killed him anymore than you or I did. This whole thing stinks because there had to be some kind of agenda to have not released all the footage from the very beginning.

 

[volbeast33]

So imaginary quotes based (loosely) on current events. In other words they didn't say what you attributed to them. It's nice to have a vivid imagination, I guess.

WTH are you even talking about?

 

[InVOLuntary]

I'm sure millions of americans will be voting for democrats in the next presidential election so we can all join w/BLM & walk the streets showing our actions to one another like this. Just makes my heart swell w/pride & love beyond measure wanting to join.

What's funny is they are saying they will never be a slave and they don't realize they are slaves.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

I don’t know that you do remember right. Floyd was saying from the beginning of his encounter with law enforcement and ended up on the ground because he threw himself to the ground

It’s evident in the video that he’s saying I can’t breathe.

Because he was acting highly erratic.

He was handcuffed and 2 cops there laying face down on the ground. What was he going to do? Hurt the cops?

Idk the referenced case

There’s a lot of factors I think you’re intentionally ignoring like the crowd control element of the case that Chauvin had to deal with while also dealing with Floyd and the obvious fact that Floyd was not complaining of his breathing due to the knee on his back

How was he going to control the crowd on his knees?

 

[GVF]

The crowd outnumbered them, did it not? You also seem to have ignored my other point that his claims he couldn’t breath were ongoing before Chauvin.

I do get all that. But, he made a chain of decisions he wasn't going to recover from is all I'm saying more than anything else.

My mind tells me that if you are outnumbered, you difuse. Which means you cool the optics, and back off when there's time for the optics to change. Managing siutations is also part of the job. In today's cop world you can't get caught up and forget that part.

Maybe it was incidental and just an ill-timed happenstance. But, he was never gonna get anything other than guilty without the venue moving. That was his only chance.

 

[Vol8188]

I do get all that. But, he made a chain of decisions he wasn't going to recover from is all I'm saying more than anything else.

My mind tells me that if you are outnumbered, you difuse. Which means you cool the optics, and back off when there's time for the optics to change. Managing siutations is also part of the job. In today's cop world you can't get caught up and forget that part.

Maybe it was incidental and just an ill-timed happenstance. But, he was never gonna get anything other than guilty without the venue moving. That was his only chance.

You think being out numbered means you leave the suspect and back up? That makes no sense.

Venue didn’t matter. The media destroyed that

 

[MOOOOONEY]

Just another nut job on the left that 20% will agree with and 75% will cower in fear too afraid to speak out against and the 5% who speaks out will be called a fascist and nazi.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Fair enough, my next question would be were their any other drugs in his system at levels high enough to contribute to his death? I'm positive this was addressed in the autopsy, just thinking out loud here. That and his other morbidities made him a ticking time bomb under the right (wrong in this case) situation and the officers provided it. Multiple levels of failure on their part.

I understand the use of the knee in certain situations, it should really only be used to gain control and cuff, if they continue to struggle just restrain them with other means, hobble etc. officers jobs are extremely difficult, taxing work. But indifference and a knee that long combined with his other issues and excited delirium all played a part.

All of this is true. Whether its accepted practice in your locale or not to keep your knee on the back of someones neck (it was OK in Minneapolis) from a medical and human morals standpoint that practice, for longer than getting cuffs on is BS and the cop was wrong. His yelling he couldnt breathe is irrelevant though, as @Rickyvol77 can attest, people of all shapes and sizes scream that they can't breathe, that you're hurting them, that you're killing them, etc when they realize they are being handcuffed and arrested all the time. You can watch cops or any other bodycam/police reality TV show and see this frequently. The cop should not have kept his knee there for several minutes though after Floyd was subdued.

As to chemical makeup in his bloodstream etc this is really important. There are lots of drugs both prescription and illicit that can potentiate opiates especially extremely powerful opiates like fentanyl. Blood pressure medicine is dangerous. Alcohol is one of the worst. Benzodiazepenes like xanax, valium etc can multiply the effects of opiates suppressing breathing and heart function. Lots of opiate addicts use benzos for this reason because they are cheap and commonly prescribed so easy to obtain. Many overdoses come from this.When My BIL was on methadone, he could test positive for any other drug endlessly and not get kicked out of the program. 1 positive test for any benzo meant permanent exclusion from the program. Weed also does the same as alcohol. Any cold or sleep medicine OTC that contains downers is dangerous. Even some foods like grapefruit potentiate opiates. Its impossible to really know Floyds tolerance levels.. and any claims regarding whether or not he ingested enough dope to kill him are dubious without knowing exactly what
other drugs were in his system and their levels as well as the contents of his stomach. Floyds medical history pertaining to his heart and lungs are also relevant given his age...

 

[appvol]

 

[Vol8188]

Possibly, but that's the thing, as an officer you can't be indifferent. You have to aware that these things exist and could happen.

For example, had the officer used the knee to control the suspect until cuffed and then used other techniques once he was restrained and he died I don't think you could fault the officer at all. The fact he held that knee reducing airflow is why I think he's at least partly culpable.

You can’t go into an encounter with a very large erratic behaving man assuming he’s significantly less physically healthy than anyone else his age. If he were in a wheelchair and drooling, I’d get it. But that wasn’t the case. His physical issues weren’t visible

I’m really not convinced he was reducing airflow but agree the appearance is bad. But if you use multiple drugs, commit a crime, and act absolutely insane, I’m going to need more than what I saw to believe your actions are the main cause of his death

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Your surprised a court will protect thier own in a liberal state... Haven't we seen recently judge overstepping their judicial powers, so much so they they cut down by SCOTUS? It could be a stretch but it could also be par for the course.. Especially in high profile cases... The night stalker, and Boston Marathon also were rejected a change of venue and rejected appeals just the same...

The magistrate here in Charlotte (Democrat ofc) that let the mentally ill career criminal walk out of jail on a signed promise to return for court is a great example. Couple weeks later he butchers a completely innocent little girl from Ukraine...which is 100% blood on her hands for releasing him. She knew Charlotte is a Liberal cesspool though and that there would be no fuss about her letting criminals walk free. There still won't be any repercussions for her in all likelihood. "Oops" . Total BS. Minneapolis is even worse than Charlotte. Its right up there with Portland and Seattle on the insanity scale.

It was political remember the prosecutor even went at lengths to cover up the MPD's training manuals at first AND brought in a paid "expert coroner" that disagreed with the actual city coroner that did the original autopsy. The fact is that if it wasn't on video, and it didn't pick up national steam, it's unlikely Chauvin is even charged as OD deaths involving positional asphyxiation and excited delirium occur in prisoners and hospital patients being restrained often

Yep. From moment one the Democrat leadership threw the cop under the "woke" bus. He never stood a chance. It was blatantly obvious like the OJ trial...predetermined outcome for political reasons. Justice be damned. Should he have faced a manslaughter charge? Probably so but that is debatable.

 

[luthervol]

I genuinely hope that you have a good day.

I've had a great day. My son took me golfing for my birthday. I shot an 85 and he shot an 86. First time I've beaten him in a while and a good chance the last time I ever beat him. Guy we were playing with kept buying us rounds of Fireball every time the cart girl came around.....plus the beers my son brought -

Wife is about to return from a 3 day out of town college recruitment tour with a group of juniors and then we're heading out for my birthday dinner.

My youngest daughter and her husband flew in from NYC and we are all meeting up at my daughter's house who lives in Atlanta tomorrow for a big group birthday lunch (one daughter born 9/13 the other born 9/15) and then we are all going to the GT football game. Plus, I'll get to see my 2 month old granddaughter for the first time in a couple of weeks.

So that's what is important to me.......not so much engaging in this debate.

It sounds as if it basically boils down to all of your answers are rooted in your belief in a god.
I'm fine with that.
I'm sitting on about a 98.4% probability that there is no god.

I certainly have no interest in a religious debate - which is where this appears to be immediately headed.
BUT.....if you take it to a designated thread.....I'll probably engage anyway. If not.....so be it.

 

[Smokey123]

Certainly.
I didn't follow him. I knew he was a person but had no idea what he did. Since the murder, I am more aware of what he thought and how he shared those thoughts. He seemed like a sincere christian. I find it admirable he went to young men and women on campuses and took his ideas to them one on one. Personally, I would have preferred to see him use a different approach but I can appreciate SM needs a hook to spread. I share many ideas as well as a spiritual calling with CK. His murder was a tragedy. Should have never happened. I am putting my trust in the Lord that 'all things work for good' and this event will be no different.

What different approach would you have liked to have seen? Or what part of his approach did you not like?

 

[McDad]

What different approach would you have liked to have seen? Or what part of his approach did you not like?

Less combative. Not in front of a cheering/jeering crowd. Less cutting off a people to make his point. Stuff like that.
Had he taken that approach he would not have had nearly the reach. It would have been way too boring. Probably best for everyone he had a bit of drama and edge to his events.

 

[volfanhill]

I am not eating shat food just bc a conservative business owner knows how to pander

 

[Orangeslice13]

I am not eating shat food just bc a conservative business owner knows how to pander

Isn’t that what all marketing is now.
Edit: Rome Ga…..that’s MTGs district. Really taking a stand

 

[volfanhill]

Isn’t that what all marketing is now.
Edit: Rome Ga…..that’s MTGs district. Really taking a stand

Sure. The guy is smart for sure. And a good operator. Knows the business. But I'm not *****ing myself bc he is good at it

 

[volbeast33]

 

[Orangeslice13]

Sure. The guy is smart for sure. And a good operator. Knows the business. But I'm not *****ing myself bc he is good at it

You don’t seem like the “*****ing myself” type of guy.

 

[BreatheUT]

Steak N Shake has claimed this billboard in West Nashville.

 

[volfanhill]

Steak N Shake has claimed this billboard in West Nashville.

Their owner owns 4% of Cracker Barell. He just got blocked from taking any board seats. He's a little ass hurt. They should listen to him though. He's a good operator

 

[NurseGoodVol]

LOL. I hope @NurseGoodVol gets to read all this pirate talk silliness and appreciates us.

I do truly appreciate you all.

 

[BreatheUT]

Their owner owns 4% of Cracker Barell. He just got blocked from taking any board seats. He's a little ass hurt. They should listen to him though. He's a good operator

Ahh, part of the back story.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

yup, me too. after my first sit down with the public defender, i stopped communicating even with him. didn't say a word to anybody. even the day they hauled me into the courthouse, he asked me at the last minute if i was sure i wanted to maintain innocence. Tried to convince me they had me.

15 minutes later he comes back and tells me im going home that day, they had zero evidence

I was railroaded by a public defender. All they do is try to cut deals with the DA. The facts of your actual case are irrelevant in my experience. I am sure like with any profession there are exceptions to the rule...but on the experience of myself and friends etc the PDs are in cahoots with the DAs and primarily comcerned with clearing cases and avoiding trials. Not with the best interests of the accused. If one cannot afford a paid lawyer...then they are well and truly screwed in most cases.

 

[apevol]

I was railroaded by a public defender. All they do is try to cut deals with the DA. The facts of your actual case are irrelevant in my experience. I am sure like with any profession there are exceptions to the rule...but on the experience of myself and friends etc the PDs are in cahoots with the DAs and primarily comcerned with clearing cases and avoiding trials. Not with the best interests of the accused. If one cannot afford a paid lawyer...then they are well and truly screwed in most cases.

i was genuinely better off being hostile to my representation than i was letting him "help" me

that aint right