Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

[RockyTop85]

as in, new evidence that would prove innocence comes out, there is no guarantee an appeals court would hear the trial? or there is no guarantee that even if there was a trial it would actually over turn the previous ruling?

There are guaranteed ways to put the evidence in the record at a post conviction, petition of habeas corpus, or writ of error coram nobis. Those decisions are brought before the trial court and then can be appealed.

Exaggerated and not super realistic example: Let’s say I am post convicting a rape case where the victim comes in and testifies that she’s less sure that my client was the assailant than she was at trial and that she now has evidence that the rape happened at the Chattanooga Marriott on September 19. I produce cell phone records and airline tickets that show my client was in San Diego from September 10 through 21 of that same year. A hospital records custodian comes in and says that they located an untested rape kit and sent it for testing. It matches Notmyclient.

I think the trial judge would probably find a way to fix this. He/she would do so by identifying some constitutional procedural defect and overturning the conviction on those grounds. It almost certainly would not be on the basis that I had proven my client’s innocence because it is in doubt whether actual innocence is a legal theory on which relief can be granted under the framework for those cases. Part of my job as counsel would be to raise any and all procedural defects so the judge has something to hang it on.

Take the variables that make that case egregious and it doesn’t take much to get to the point where the judge won’t go out of his way to fix it and you’re just stuck because you got convicted at a fair trial.

 

[appvol]

 

[LouderVol]

There are guaranteed ways to put the evidence in the record at a post conviction, petition of habeas corpus, or writ of error coram nobis. Those decisions are brought before the trial court and then can be appealed.

Exaggerated and not super realistic example: Let’s say I am post convicting a rape case where the victim comes in and testifies that she’s less sure that my client was the assailant than she was at trial and that she now has evidence that the rape happened at the Chattanooga Marriott on September 19. I produce cell phone records and airline tickets that show my client was in San Diego from September 10 through 21 of that same year. A hospital records custodian comes in and says that they located an untested rape kit and sent it for testing. It matches Notmyclient.

I think the trial judge would probably find a way to fix this. He/she would do so by identifying some constitutional procedural defect and overturning the conviction on those grounds. It almost certainly would not be on the basis that I had proven my client’s innocence because it is in doubt whether actual innocence is a legal theory on which relief can be granted under the framework for those cases. Part of my job as counsel would be to raise any and all procedural defects so the judge has something to hang it on.

Take the variables that make that case egregious and it doesn’t take much to get to the point where the judge won’t go out of his way to fix it and you’re just stuck because you got convicted at a fair trial.

thanks for the explanation. I understand now. on one level it makes sense, the case, what was presented, ruled, sentenced, can't be undone. it happened. its in the record.

but that new evidence would at least be grounds for an appeal? even if the original ruling/case can't be "undone". or is the appeal limited by what was presented in the original case?

its so jacked up to me that we rely on procedural bs, after the fact, to fix problems, rather than acknowledging actual evidence. seems like the first judge could see/review the new evidence and then recommend an appeals court hear it.

 

[KB5252]

My feed algorithms may be lying to me, but it sounds like the needle has already been greatly moved. I guess we'll see.

You mean this vote? How are you able to judge the algorithms for this vote?

 

[Orange_Crush]

You mean this vote? How are you able to judge the algorithms for this vote?

No. I'm talking about several news feeds that report that the Dems are hemorrhaging registered voters, and the republicans are gaining. As well as, the apparent rash of self-professing former democrats that are disgusted by the shooting and both the celebrations and refusals to condemn it, who are thus are fleeing the party.

 

[RockyTop85]

but that new evidence would at least be grounds for an appeal? even if the original ruling/case can't be "undone". or is the appeal limited by what was presented in the original case?

It depends!

First comes the direct appeal. The appeals court isn’t going to hear evidence or decide facts. They defer to the trial court and the record. You can request review by the state Supreme Court and US Supreme Court.

Next is petition for post conviction relief. Here (at least in Tennessee) you have to show that a constitutional right was violated. You get a hearing where you can call witnesses and present evidence. In Tennessee, this appeal is created by statute and is available to all convicted persons. As you can imagine, there are a lot of them. The trial judge hears evidence and makes a decision. You can then appeal up all three levels like you did with a trial but only the direct appeal is guaranteed to be heard. Again, no new evidence, no new facts at the appeals, gotta present all of that at your hearing.

Petition for writ of habeas corpus is actually a federal claim. You have to show that your federal constitutional rights were violated. After he died, a lot of people brought up some Scalia quotes pointing out that innocence was not a constitutional claim. This becomes tricky because it’s so like most states’ PCR statutes and you’ve been attacking this case for a while so you get into issues of waiver (you knew of this and didn’t bring it up so you’re not entitled to relief) and prior adjudication (you brought his up and it was litigated at a prior state court proceeding that is now final so you’re not entitled to relief). You can appeal this to the U.S. Circuit Court, you can petition for en banc review of that court, and U.S. Supreme Court. Only the 3 judge circuit court panel is required to hear the case.

Then there is there a number of other collateral attacks. Tennessee has a DNA PCR statute. There is a writ of error coram nobis that I believe mostly applies to new scientific techniques. I think it’s fair to say that these mostly get exercised in death penalty cases. They can be appealed as before.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'​

Hadeel Assali, who is teaching an active course on 'race, climate, and environmental justice,' has endorsed terrorism against Israel and called for its 'abolition'​

A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

The lecturer, Hadeel Assali, shared a photo from a self-described "queer, trans, black, indigenous, and person of color" graffiti artist showing a wall in Los Angeles defaced with the message, "2 black men were lynched & the media is mourning a dead Nazi." Assali added her own message: "And Columbia university has flags at half mast for the dead nazi."

https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/IMG_5373.jpg

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'

A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

freebeacon.com

 

[KB5252]

No. I'm talking about several news feeds that report that the Dems are hemorrhaging registered voters, and the republicans are gaining. As well as, the apparent rash of self-professing former democrats that are disgusted by the shooting and both the celebrations and refusals to condemn it, who are thus are fleeing the party.

I do not believe there will be any significant exodus of D's from the party.

I think some centrists/swing voters may be effected but I think party line voters have just entrenched themselves further into their party identity.

And to those swing voters there's still a lot of time until the next election. The news cycle can bring any turn of events and you can rest assured the left is planning on making speech and freedom a cornerstone of their platform. And Trump is given them ammo when he has nothing to gain from it.

 

[Peradox1K]

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'​

Hadeel Assali, who is teaching an active course on 'race, climate, and environmental justice,' has endorsed terrorism against Israel and called for its 'abolition'​

View attachment 774816
A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

The lecturer, Hadeel Assali, shared a photo from a self-described "queer, trans, black, indigenous, and person of color" graffiti artist showing a wall in Los Angeles defaced with the message, "2 black men were lynched & the media is mourning a dead Nazi." Assali added her own message: "And Columbia university has flags at half mast for the dead nazi."

https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/IMG_5373.jpg

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'

A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

freebeacon.com

Oh, good lord...
People need to learn when to keep their mouths shut. Especially when they have the audacity to spread lies.

 

[Orange_Crush]

It'll register with a few but will not move the needle in any significant way.

I do not believe there will be any significant exodus of D's from the party.

I think some centrists/swing voters may be effected but I think party line voters have just entrenched themselves further into their party identity.

And to those swing voters there's still a lot of time until the next election. The news cycle can bring any turn of events and you can rest assured the left is planning on making speech and freedom a cornerstone of their platform. And Trump is given them ammo when he has nothing to gain from it.

The point being, that if what I'm seeing is true, the needle has already been moving greatly. We'll see.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Oh, good lord...
People need to learn when to keep their mouths shut. Especially when they have the audacity to spread lies.

The left seems incapable of getting their folks to just shut up and not make things worse.

 

[KB5252]

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'​

Hadeel Assali, who is teaching an active course on 'race, climate, and environmental justice,' has endorsed terrorism against Israel and called for its 'abolition'​

View attachment 774816
A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

The lecturer, Hadeel Assali, shared a photo from a self-described "queer, trans, black, indigenous, and person of color" graffiti artist showing a wall in Los Angeles defaced with the message, "2 black men were lynched & the media is mourning a dead Nazi." Assali added her own message: "And Columbia university has flags at half mast for the dead nazi."

https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/IMG_5373.jpg

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'

A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

freebeacon.com

Well the artist is an idiot, there was a black man who hung himself, and a white man who hung himself. Everything else posted there is just an advancement of that idiocy. Awkward that supposedly smart people would associate themselves with idiocy the way they do.

I could be wrong about the young black man though, his family seems sure he wouldn't have committed suicide. Though the coroner found no evidence of foul play, nor did the sheriff's investigation.

But they have hired Ben Crump and requested another coroner take a look.

 

[Peradox1K]

The left seems incapable of getting their folks to just shut up and not make things worse.

It's like the daughter in all the horror movies who starts screaming when the monster's near.

 

[hndog609]

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'​

Hadeel Assali, who is teaching an active course on 'race, climate, and environmental justice,' has endorsed terrorism against Israel and called for its 'abolition'​

View attachment 774816
A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

The lecturer, Hadeel Assali, shared a photo from a self-described "queer, trans, black, indigenous, and person of color" graffiti artist showing a wall in Los Angeles defaced with the message, "2 black men were lynched & the media is mourning a dead Nazi." Assali added her own message: "And Columbia university has flags at half mast for the dead nazi."

https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/IMG_5373.jpg

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'

A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

freebeacon.com

I don't know if I can even muster umbrage at someone teaching "race, climate & environmental justice". There's just no way to take anything from that person seriously enough. I'd be in big trouble for having a big laugh at hearing what they taught because I'd have thought they simply had to be joking.

 

[volinbham]

I don't know if I can even muster umbrage at someone teaching "race, climate & environmental justice". There's just no way to take anything from that person seriously enough. I'd be in big trouble for having a big laugh at hearing what they taught because I'd have thought they simply had to be joking.

A more succinct name would be Grievance 101

 

[theFallGuy]

After Charlie Kirk's Murder, Elite Arrogance Still On Full Display

College students saw Charlie Kirk as the ultimate enemy, so awful he needed deplatforming or worse, but educational swindlers are the real enemies of youth

www.racket.news

 

[GVF]

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'​

Hadeel Assali, who is teaching an active course on 'race, climate, and environmental justice,' has endorsed terrorism against Israel and called for its 'abolition'​

View attachment 774816
A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

The lecturer, Hadeel Assali, shared a photo from a self-described "queer, trans, black, indigenous, and person of color" graffiti artist showing a wall in Los Angeles defaced with the message, "2 black men were lynched & the media is mourning a dead Nazi." Assali added her own message: "And Columbia university has flags at half mast for the dead nazi."

https://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/IMG_5373.jpg

Columbia Climate Lecturer Calls Charlie Kirk a 'Dead Nazi'

A Columbia University "environmental justice" lecturer called Charlie Kirk a "dead nazi" in a social media post that criticized the Ivy League school for lowering its flags to half-mast in compliance with a federal directive honoring the slain conservative commentator.

freebeacon.com

And that is a gross mistatement of fact and out right lies and hate peddling if she's talking the kid at Delta State, and the man in Vicksburg.

1. The man in Vicksburg was actually a white homeless person.
2. The Delta State student is currently not classified as a lynching, muder, foul play or anything else. While the autopsy has yet to be officially released, the coronnoer did make a statement that there were no injuries of any kind that would indicate an attack, assault, self-defense or signs of struggle of any kind.

This information is really easy to find, when you are not peddling the narrative.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Im sorry. I don't follow. What led to what?

Sorry for the delay.

If you weren't familliar with him and now agree and support much of his perspective, what (specifically) happened to change that?

I'm wondering if it was singularly his assassination and the resultant curiosity (and that's singularly enough imho), or if it was at least partially the rash of lies and accusations about his hate speech. Has there been a time that you've heard an accusation about what he said/meant, and researched it to find out for yourself, thus gained exposure to his message?

I have a theory that the raampant lies and ****-posting about him from the left has been having a bit of a ruinous effect for the left and the ****-posters. It's one reason I'm asking the conservatives to stop trying to stamp it out. Just let them keep going and make more converts.

How destructive (for a philosophy) is it for someone to get murdered for his opinion, just to find out that he was murdered for an opinion that you largely share?

"Hmmm... They'd kill me too!" Or, "Wow. They'd kill my parents!" (I've seen that last one on Twitter lately, explaining why a few young people have left the left.)

 

[McDad]

Sorry for the delay.

If you weren't familliar with him and now agree and support much of his perspective, what (specifically) happened to change that?

I'm wondering if it was singularly his assassination and the resultant curiosity (and that's singularly enough imho), or if it was at least partially the rash of lies and accusations about his hate speech. Has there been a time that you've heard an accusation about what he said/meant, and researched it to find out for yourself, thus gained exposure to his message?

I have a theory that the raampant lies and ****-posting about him from the left has been having a bit of a ruinous effect for the left and the ****-posters. It's one reason I'm asking the conservatives to stop trying to stamp it out. Just let them keep going and make more converts.

How destructive (for a philosophy) is it for someone to get murdered for his opinion, just to find out that he was murdered for an opinion that you largely share?

"Hmmm... They'd kill me too!" Or, "Wow. They'd kill my parents!" (I've seen that last one on Twitter quite a bit lately, explaining why a few young people have left the left.)

That's a good question. I find it hard to separate what I learned about who he was and what I learned by the mischaracterization. I would like to think of myself as above being motivated by martyrdom. Not that is precisely what happened with CK. But my opinion is likely swayed by why he was murdered as much as what he stood for.

The words aren't really coming the way I want them to so I hope it makes sense.

 

[Orange_Crush]

That's a good question. I find it hard to separate what I learned about who he was and what I learned by the mischaracterization. I would like to think of myself as above being motivated by martyrdom. Not that is precisely what happened with CK. But my opinion is likely swayed by why he was murdered as much as what he stood for.

The words aren't really coming the way I want them to so I hope it makes sense.

That's fine, and well enough for me.

I wasn't thinking that you formed an agreement for him out of empathy any more than you'd have formed an agreement for Hitler due to his death. I was more asking if it was due to general curiosity, or any specific research driven to investigate negative claims. It's not important either way. Having read your posts for a long time, I had assumed that you were already a right-wing racist, trans-hating nut-job like CK.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

And that is a gross mistatement of fact and out right lies and hate peddling if she's talking the kid at Delta State, and the man in Vicksburg.

1. The man in Vicksburg was actually a white homeless person.
2. The Delta State student is currently not classified as a lynching, muder, foul play or anything else. While the autopsy has yet to be officially released, the coronnoer did make a statement that there were no injuries of any kind that would indicate an attack, assault, self-defense or signs of struggle of any kind.

This information is really easy to find, when you are not peddling the narrative.

Colin Kaepernick Funding Independent Autopsy For Black Student Found Hanging from tree at Mississippi college​

Controversial fired NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick is paying for an independent autopsy for a black student who was found hanging from a tree on his Mississippi college campus — after the student’s family challenged the official ruling of suicide.

Colin Kaepernick funding independent autopsy for black student found hanging from tree at Mississippi college

Controversial fired NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick is paying for an independent autopsy for a black student who was found hanging from a tree on his Mississippi college campus — after the s…

nypost.com

 

[Rickyvol77]

Colin Kaepernick Funding Independent Autopsy For Black Student Found Hanging from tree at Mississippi college​

Controversial fired NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick is paying for an independent autopsy for a black student who was found hanging from a tree on his Mississippi college campus — after the student’s family challenged the official ruling of suicide.

Colin Kaepernick funding independent autopsy for black student found hanging from tree at Mississippi college

Controversial fired NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick is paying for an independent autopsy for a black student who was found hanging from a tree on his Mississippi college campus — after the s…

nypost.com

It was a clear suicide

 

[KB5252]

Colin Kaepernick Funding Independent Autopsy For Black Student Found Hanging from tree at Mississippi college​

Controversial fired NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick is paying for an independent autopsy for a black student who was found hanging from a tree on his Mississippi college campus — after the student’s family challenged the official ruling of suicide.

Colin Kaepernick funding independent autopsy for black student found hanging from tree at Mississippi college

Controversial fired NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick is paying for an independent autopsy for a black student who was found hanging from a tree on his Mississippi college campus — after the s…

nypost.com

Why wouldn't Ben Crump do this? Props to Kap though.

 

[ETV]

The Republicans are putting on a political master-class right now, IMHO. The Dems are committing political suicide right now, IMHO.

Force a vote where the Democrats refuse to condemn political violence? Ouch.

They condemn someone such as Kirk, but support a career criminal such as George Floyd. Baffling.

 

[jcvols24]

I just came here to say watching luther cower down to the argument presented by orange_crush was extremely entertaining to read.