Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

[whodeycin85]

I still think you have a problem explaining why the appeals courts wouldn't grant a hearing to the defense team. If it were this reasonable doubt, or evidence was completely dismissed, seems like the appeals process would have been a slam dunk.

I have no explanation.... The thing is I believe the jury pool was so tainted by the coverage and protest that no other outcome was possible.

 

[Orange_Crush]

2 things wrong here.
1. wrong thread
2. you didn't answer the question yourself

1. How can this be the wrong thread? I am responding to your appeals for "fairness" and "justice" in this thread. It's literally just a response and an extension of your conversation.
2a. I have answered.
2b. It's you're claims that we are trying to weigh here, no?

Please see below...

Of course you're not guaranteed equality. Life's not fair! Which is precisely why people should be.

what is fair?

...

@luthervol

Inquiring minds and all.

A little like beauty. It's in the eyes of the beholder.
But if you need a definition...........
adjective

1. 1.
   impartial and just, without favoritism or discrimination.
   "the group has achieved fair and equal representation for all its members"

Since you've complained that you have trouble with my verbiage, let's simplify it down about as much as I think we can.


1a. If you believe that we should deal with others impartially (and by defending the necessity of DEI, you actually don't, by the way), that necessarily assumes that we as a species are rational beings who can correctly perceive, process and respond to true reality. Combined with the belief that we are just the results of the process of time, change and random mutations, what makes you believe that we are a species capable of the above? What, specifically makes you believe that such random and unguided processes gave us this capability?

1b. You claim to believe that we are just hairless primates. Why don't you expect and call for "fairness" and "justice" in the jungles, among... say... gorillas? It seems internally inconsistent and patently absurd to expect it from we-primates, and not all the they-primates.

2a. If your morality and sense of fairness/justice is nothing more than personal opinion, little different than a preference for red-headed women, or vanilla ice cream, what gives you the moral platform to call for societal change in the name of... well... mere opinion?


I find that the easiest and fastest way to spot and discard bull**** is to analyze the person's claims and ask if they are internally consistent or self-refuting absurdity. If they are, they deserve no more consideration and can be ignored immediately. If they are not, we can continue the analysis.

We may just be able to save the board some time and trouble with you here if you are willing to participate. Are you internally inconsistent? Or are you posting self-refuting absurdities?


I can't help but think that if you were confident in your position, you wouldn't be so unwilling to just interact in good faith with the questions.

 

[RockyTop85]

Can you sum this up for someone with a disorder in the ADHD family?

I got into the second paragraph saw Chronic........ Great album....... And I was off the rails

People have been caught driving with 5 times the fentanyl level that was in Floyd’s blood and they lived to serve their DUI sentence.

People have probably died from lower fentanyl levels than what was in Floyd’s blood.

When people die from fentanyl, they tend to have a high ratio of fentanyl to norfentanyl in their blood.

Floyd’s ratio of Fentanyl to a Norfentanyl was very low even compared to cases that we know were survivable.

 

[RockyTop85]

I still think you have a problem explaining why the appeals courts wouldn't grant a hearing to the defense team. If it were this reasonable doubt, or evidence was completely dismissed, seems like the appeals process would have been a slam dunk.

Probably not unless the evidence was excluded because of an improper legal ruling.

 

[KB5252]

To an extent. Agreed. My question is “would a man his age of reasonable health died from this restraint”?

I find it unlikely.

Possibly, but that's the thing, as an officer you can't be indifferent. You have to aware that these things exist and could happen.

For example, had the officer used the knee to control the suspect until cuffed and then used other techniques once he was restrained and he died I don't think you could fault the officer at all. The fact he held that knee reducing airflow is why I think he's at least partly culpable.

 

[McDad]

I have no explanation.... The thing is I believe the jury pool was so tainted by the coverage and protest that no other outcome was possible.

I can understand that. even agree to a point. we all watched the OJ circus unfold in real time.

But for the appeals courts to reject means that the fix was in beyond the jury of the trial. That's a huge stretch to me.

 

[KB5252]

People have been caught driving with 5 times the fentanyl level that was in Floyd’s blood and they lived to serve their DUI sentence.

People have probably died from lower fentanyl levels than what was in Floyd’s blood.

When people die from fentanyl, they tend to have a high ratio of fentanyl to norfentanyl in their blood.

Floyd’s ratio of Fentanyl to a Norfentanyl was very low even compared to cases that we know were survivable.

So he had a high tolerance, was likely a heavy user? And his body was processing the drugs he took?

 

[McDad]

Probably not unless the evidence was excluded because of an improper legal ruling.

Defense appealed on venue. They were rejected. Would an appeal on evidence presented not be possible if the evidence was inconclusive or misunderstood?

 

[whodeycin85]

I can understand that. even agree to a point. we all watched the OJ circus unfold in real time.

But for the appeals courts to reject means that the fix was in beyond the jury of the trial. That's a huge stretch to me.

Your surprised a court will protect thier own in a liberal state... Haven't we seen recently judge overstepping their judicial powers, so much so they they cut down by SCOTUS? It could be a stretch but it could also be par for the course.. Especially in high profile cases... The night stalker, and Boston Marathon also were rejected a change of venue and rejected appeals just the same...

 

[Rickyvol77]

No, not unless he revised to give aid like DC did.. Again neglect (if he didn't) and I wanna say manslaughter charge but I didn't believe they'd be held responsible.. I liken it to using their weapon...I if they shot and killed a person using all asked training they didn't get a charge.. But step out side that training and your responsible... Hence the neglect charges. And manslaughter

Agree that manslaughter was the appropriate non-political charge if any existed

 

[McDad]

Your surprised a court will protect thier own in a liberal state... Haven't we seen recently judge overstepping their judicial powers, so much so they they cut down by SCOTUS? It could be a stretch but it could also be par for the course.. Especially in high profile cases... The night stalker, and Boston Marathon also were rejected a change of venue and rejected appeals just the same...

I am, or would be, surprised. I can wrap my mind around a room full of angry jurors unable to be impartial. I can even extend that to the judge. But once we go beyond that courtroom to the appellate court, I would have to believe everybody up the 'judicial chain' are perfectly aligned in thought against DC and his defense team. That seems implausible to me. I think they even attempted to get in front of SCOTUS and were rejected.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I still think you have a problem explaining why the appeals courts wouldn't grant a hearing to the defense team. If it were this reasonable doubt, or evidence was completely dismissed, seems like the appeals process would have been a slam dunk.

It was political remember the prosecutor even went at lengths to cover up the MPD's training manuals at first AND brought in a paid "expert coroner" that disagreed with the actual city coroner that did the original autopsy. The fact is that if it wasn't on video, and it didn't pick up national steam, it's unlikely Chauvin is even charged as OD deaths involving positional asphyxiation and excited delirium occur in prisoners and hospital patients being restrained often

 

[hog88]

Who were the witnesses in the Derek Chauvin trial?

These are the individuals who testified in the trial of Derek Chauvin for the killing of George Floyd.

www.startribune.com

32. Daniel Isenschmid, a forensic toxicologist at NMS Labs in Pennsylvania. He testified that while fentanyl was found in Floyd's blood, so was norfentanyl, which is metabolized fentanyl. Overdose victims rarely have norfentanyl in their blood, he said. He testified that Floyd's ratio of fentanyl to norfentanyl was 1.96 ng/ml. This is compared to the average ratio of 9.05 in postmortem cases and 3.2 in driving under the influence cases. Floyd's level of methamphetamine, 19 ng/ml, was in the bottom 5.9% of a sample of DUI methamphetamine cases.
"Does this show Mr. Floyd was below the average and even below the median in DUI cases?" prosecutor Erin Eldridge asked. "Yes," Isenschmid said.

From your article:
Isenschmid also showed that Floyd's blood ratio of fentanyl to norfentanyl, the molecule fentanyl is broken down to once in the body, was lower than the average ratio both for people who died of overdoses and those arrested for DUI who lived.

Yes, norfentanyl is commonly found in the blood of overdose patients, especially in cases of fentanyl-related deaths. It is the primary, inactive metabolite of the potent synthetic opioid fentanyl.
Why norfentanyl is detected in overdose cases

• Sign of recent fentanyl use: The presence of norfentanyl indicates that the body has had time to metabolize fentanyl. Since fentanyl is broken down relatively quickly, detecting both fentanyl and its metabolite can provide valuable information about the timing of the drug use relative to the overdose.
• Indicates chronic use or delayed death: In some postmortem cases, norfentanyl is detected even when fentanyl itself is absent or present at a very low concentration. Because norfentanyl has a longer detection window, its presence can indicate longer-term use or a delayed death, meaning the individual survived long enough for their body to metabolize the drug.
• Confirms fentanyl exposure: In drug testing, finding norfentanyl along with fentanyl confirms that a person has been exposed to fentanyl, rather than just a fentanyl analog or precursor.

The google machine disagrees with the expert.

 

[whodeycin85]

I am, or would be, surprised. I can wrap my mind around a room full of angry jurors unable to be impartial. I can even extend that to the judge. But once we go beyond that courtroom to the appellate court, I would have to believe everybody up the 'judicial chain' are perfectly aligned in thought against DC and his defense team. That seems implausible to me. I think they even attempted to get in front of SCOTUS and were rejected.

They did and yes they were rejected without an explanation....I believe it was so politically charged and they didn't want another summer of love riots... But that's an opinion.

 

[McDad]

They did and yes they were rejected without an explanation....I believe it was so politically charged and they didn't want another summer of love riots... But that's an opinion.

I don't fault anyone for forming those opinions. All I am saying is I can't get there myself.

 

[whodeycin85]

I don't fault anyone for forming those opinions. All I am saying is I can't get there myself.

Have you ever been in the system,?? Committed a crime etc?

 

[McDad]

Have you ever been in the system,?? Committed a crime etc?

No sir.

 

[Orange_Crush]

No sir.

Have you ever had a loved one dragged into it as a pawn for other objectives, knowing that your loved one is innocent but willing and threatening to ruin their life for other objectives?

 

[whodeycin85]

No sir.

Just curious, I have been. Don't wanna get into details here... and legally I shouldnt discuss it till I'm ofg probation.. Let's just say i was guilty and until I advocated for myself over my attorney I wouldn't be posting here due a while. And this was a situation in a small town that included the judge and mayor trying to cover up something else.

 

[McDad]

Have you ever had a loved one dragged into it as a pawn for other objectives, knowing that your loved one is innocent but willing and threatening to ruin their life for other objectives?

No sir. I have a brother who is a felon and deserved his sentence. But no pawns in the family.

 

[n_huffhines]

Have any high ranking D's showed less respect for Charlie than Trump

 

[McDad]

Just curious, I have been. Don't wanna get into details here... and legally I shouldnt discuss it till I'm ofg probation.. Let's just say i was guilty and until I advocated for myself over my attorney I wouldn't be posting here due a while. And this was a situation in a small town that included the judge and mayor trying to cover up something else.

Understood. Again, I can understand corruption in a single court or town.

 

[apevol]

Just curious, I have been. Don't wanna get into details here... and legally I shouldnt discuss it till I'm ofg probation.. Let's just say i was guilty and until I advocated for myself over my attorney I wouldn't be posting here due a while. And this was a situation in a small town that included the judge and mayor trying to cover up something else.

i would have spent years in prison had i listened to my public defender

 

[whodeycin85]

Understood. Again, I can understand corruption in a single court or town.

With SCOTUS the without explaintion part of strange to me.. Why not say why your denying it.

 

[McDad]

Have any high ranking D's showed less respect for Charlie than Trump

View attachment 774784

I've seen this posted a couple of times now.

Can you explain to me how you see trump's reply as disrespectful to CK?