Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

[Carl Pickens]

Man who lied about shooting Charlie Kirk to help assassin escape charged with child pornography - LifeSite

Pedophile George Zinn screamed ‘I shot him, now shoot me’ after Charlie Kirk’s assassination and said he wanted to distract police as the real killer fled.

www.lifesitenews.com

Birds of a feather

 

[whodeycin85]

Birds of a feather

CO conspirator number 1...I believe there are more

 

[LSU-SIU]

I read your post as saying thousands were getting fired. But if you meant thousands have been accused by a right wing lynch mob as having said mean things, then I guess you are partially correct.
I'm sure they would flag dozens of posts in this thread as having said mean things about CK.
If you are wanting "thought police"......congrats, they're now here.

I don't think you can be cured.

 

[McDad]

In that case yes... In the Floyd car chaviun was using his training...I believe he was over charged.. Should have been the lowest murder charges possible with neglect... That may be the case I haven't looked that deep in a while

That is an important wrinkle. He was using his training. What if we modified the hypothetical I offered KB?

What if KB instead of ramming the car, was a LEO who attempted to use a pit manuever (because the old man was driving fast and erratic and not listening to commands to pull over) and flipped the car killing the man with the weak heart.

Would KB as a LEO have killed him?

 

[whodeycin85]

That is an important wrinkle. He was using his training. What if we modified the hypothetical I offered KB?

What if KB instead of ramming the car, was a LEO who attempted to use a pit manuever (because the old man was driving fast and erratic and not listening to commands to pull over) and flipped the car killing the man with the weak heart.

Would KB as a LEO have killed him?

No, not unless he revised to give aid like DC did.. Again neglect (if he didn't) and I wanna say manslaughter charge but I didn't believe they'd be held responsible.. I liken it to using their weapon...I if they shot and killed a person using all asked training they didn't get a charge.. But step out side that training and your responsible... Hence the neglect charges. And manslaughter

 

[McDad]

Some important notes too.

1. Enlarged heart is a risk factor for sudden cardiac death. It’s one of the many things we screen children for with sports physicals in an effort to reduce the number of kids who die of sudden cardiac death during sporting events and/or practices.

2. Methamphetamine users often have insane hypertension. I have them come in all the time with systolic pressure of 220-240. Levels like 240/120 are fairly common and these are in people who have not smoked in 2-3 days (granted I’m taking their word for that).

3. Fentanyl is known (like all opiates) to reduce respiratory drive.

So when we add this up he had a heart that required more blood flow than most hearts due to its enlargement (likely caused by years of drugs abuse), he likely had blood pressure that was insanely high increasing the demand on his heart, and he would have a low respiratory rate meaning his O2 levels would likely be reduced. On top of that his O2 levels would likely be chronically reduced by years of tobacco, marijuana, and meth smoke.

So he had a heart that needed more oxygen due to its size, was getting less oxygen due to opiate abuse and years of smoking, was having to work harder due to insane HTN. That’s all just baseline before he starts panicking.

You add his panicked state into the equation and that demand goes up in a body that’s physically incapable of meeting such a demand.

If this were all a factor, I would have expected the defense to find a receptive court on the appeal. They did not.

 

[KB5252]

May I give you a hypothetical?

An old man cuts you off in traffic and you, in a rage, ram his car. The impact violently slams his head into the side window. It crushes his skull but it's hard to know if it was fatal because he had a heart attack too. He had a history of heart attacks and TIAs. He was doa when ems arrived.

Did you kill him?

Yes, because I initiated the sequence of events.

And if my post came off as me absolving police that wasnt the intent. My intent was to say officers need to be aware of other possible circumstances and reduce the risk of injury to those they are apprehending/have detained.

They failed to do that here.

 

[Orange_Crush]

 

[McDad]

No, not unless he revised to give aid like DC did.. Again neglect (if he didn't) and I wanna say manslaughter charge but I didn't believe they'd be held responsible.. I liken it to using their weapon...I if they shot and killed a person using all asked training they didn't get a charge.. But step out side that training and your responsible... Hence the neglect charges. And manslaughter

I understand. I don't agree but I get what you're saying.

 

[GVF]

What could not be allowed from a legal standpoint?
His defense was allowed and did in fact argue that fentanyl and meth overdose was part of the cause of death. They put on their own independent medical examiner who opined that he died of cardiac arrest due to heart disease and drug use.
The state put on multiple medical experts who contradicted him.
That issue was canvassed very thoroughly at trial.

Thx for clarifying. Most or all lawyers would have gone for it. But, that has been a while and I haven't given the situation much thought since a few minutes after the incident. Most of what you might think makes sense or doesn't make sense would be argued anyway. My expertise is that I scored 27 out of 31 (national high) the year I took the LSAT, but then decided I wasn't sure that's what I wanted.

 

[McDad]

Yes, because I initiated the sequence of events.

I appreciate you entertaining my hypothetical.

I take it from your answer, that since Floyd initiated with DC (assuming that happened because I do not remember the details), it is a different set of circumstances?

 

[whodeycin85]

I understand. I don't agree but I get what you're saying.

I'm curious which part, do you disagree?

 

[KB5252]

Some important notes too.

1. Enlarged heart is a risk factor for sudden cardiac death. It’s one of the many things we screen children for with sports physicals in an effort to reduce the number of kids who die of sudden cardiac death during sporting events and/or practices.

2. Methamphetamine users often have insane hypertension. I have them come in all the time with systolic pressure of 220-240. Levels like 240/120 are fairly common and these are in people who have not smoked in 2-3 days (granted I’m taking their word for that).

3. Fentanyl is known (like all opiates) to reduce respiratory drive.

So when we add this up he had a heart that required more blood flow than most hearts due to its enlargement (likely caused by years of drugs abuse), he likely had blood pressure that was insanely high increasing the demand on his heart, and he would have a low respiratory rate meaning his O2 levels would likely be reduced. On top of that his O2 levels would likely be chronically reduced by years of tobacco, marijuana, and meth smoke.

So he had a heart that needed more oxygen due to its size, was getting less oxygen due to opiate abuse and years of smoking, was having to work harder due to insane HTN. That’s all just baseline before he starts panicking.

You add his panicked state into the equation and that demand goes up in a body that’s physically incapable of meeting such a demand.

While having his airflow restricted by the officer detaining him. I agree with everything above.

 

[KB5252]

I appreciate you entertaining my hypothetical.

I take it from your answer, that since Floyd initiated with DC (assuming that happened because I do not remember the details), it is a different set of circumstances?

No, see my additions I added after your response. When I reread it I realized I left what was said in my head off the post.

Common things my brain does, sorry.

 

[Vol8188]

While having his airflow restricted by the officer detaining him. I agree with everything above.

To an extent. Agreed. My question is “would a man his age of reasonable health died from this restraint”?

I find it unlikely.

 

[McDad]

I'm curious which part, do you disagree?

with the charge or judgement of manslaughter. I think the murder verdict was justified.

come to think of it, I think manslaughter was part of the verdict too. murder and manslaughter maybe???

 

[whodeycin85]

To an extent. Agreed. My question is “would a man his age of reasonable health died from this restraint”?

I find it unlikely.

Stephen Crowder did it on camera for longer and heavier person..

 

[McDad]

No, see my additions I added after your response. When I reread it I realized I left what was said in my head off the post.

Common things my brain does, sorry.

Re read. I agree with the responsibility falling to the LEO.

I think the moral standard should be this, once the subject is subdued and no longer a viable threat, the officer is responsible for the subject's well being.

 

[whodeycin85]

with the charge or judgement of manslaughter. I think the murder verdict was justified.

come to think of it, I think manslaughter was part of the verdict too. murder and manslaughter maybe???

Unintentional second-degree murder (felony murder doctrine, alleging he killed Floyd during the commission of third-degree assault).
Third-degree murder (depraved-heart murder, showing an extreme indifference to human life).
Second-degree manslaughter (culpably negligent homicide).

I agree with the last 2 the first..I don't believe because her want outside his training for it to be assault... His use of force diagram showed he showed have used more force from the start even tazing

 

[McDad]

To an extent. Agreed. My question is “would a man his age of reasonable health died from this restraint”?

I find it unlikely.

Hmm. I need to give that consideration.

 

[whodeycin85]

Hmm. I need to give that consideration.

Check out this video from this search, Steven Crowder reenacting floyd https://share.google/sJb5tR3rbmPI2MKiJ

 

[Vol8188]

Stephen Crowder did it on camera for longer and heavier person..

I remember that. An important note too is that many of the camera angles show the knee across the back. We also don’t know how much of his body weight he’s applying, but it doesn’t look to me like he’s attempting to really push down

 

[luthervol]

1a? Let me see, I think I recall you saying that humans are merely the product of evolution? The product of time and random mutations?

Then, again. What gives you the belief that your (or my) intellect is trustworthy? What gives you the idea that you correctly perceive reality? I mean, the first order of business for you to be any kind of authority on anything, for anyone else, would be the idea that you can correctly perceive and process objective reality. And the first test of that would be whether you even have sufficient cause to believe that about yourself. No?

We can just gnaw on that bone right here before wading into the apparent hypocrisy of you instructing us on the need for a "justice" that is based on personal opinion, and is no more binding or factual than personal opinions about beauty.

(I say right here since you believe this thread the appropriate place to call us to justice, thus it is logically the place to discuss that. I will patiently await your feedback on 1a before we delve into the follow-ups. Thank you in advance.)

So, again... What part of the concept of "chance/randomness" gives you faith that you are an actual rational being who can correctly perceive and process true reality around you? TIA.

2 things wrong here.
1. wrong thread
2. you didn't answer the question yourself

 

[whodeycin85]

I remember that. An important note too is that many of the camera angles show the knee across the back. We also don’t know how much of his body weight he’s applying, but it doesn’t look to me like he’s attempting to really push down

I posted the video above... This is the one on concrete

 

[McDad]

I remember that. An important note too is that many of the camera angles show the knee across the back. We also don’t know how much of his body weight he’s applying, but it doesn’t look to me like he’s attempting to really push down

Check out this video from this search, Steven Crowder reenacting floyd https://share.google/sJb5tR3rbmPI2MKiJ

I still think you have a problem explaining why the appeals courts wouldn't grant a hearing to the defense team. If it were this reasonable doubt, or evidence was completely dismissed, seems like the appeals process would have been a slam dunk.