Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

#5,727
#5,727
LouderVol said:
This gets to a weird spot imo.

if something is costing the company money somehow, someway; should the company be expected to maintain status quo?

if an environment is created where the workers don't feel comfortable working for someone, no matter the reason, should corporate do nothing about it?

its crappy they fired one person over what another said, but if it disrupts business and costs them money, I don't see why any company would tolerate it.
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I don't generally think it's the company's fault. It's generally the mob of bullies trying to force the firing.
 
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#5,728
#5,728
Orangeslice13 said:
The gun grabbers want the government to be the only ones with guns because they want Trump to have the ability to suppress them.

Wait…..there’s a flaw there somewhere
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Kind of like yelling about fascists and then advocating the disarming of the citizenry - which makes it easier to be fascist.
 
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#5,731
#5,731
Orange_Crush said:
It is a fabrication. He is correct.

This is not a nuanced conversation. You claimed that he wants to enforce his beliefs on others. You do too. I do too. We ALL need to make judgments about just which ones are enforced, no matter the source of each of our moral codes.

If you want to have a nuanced conversation, post the things that Charlie wanted mandated. From your article, which reads basically as just a rallying hit job, here's what I could find:




OMG, threat to doom-ocracy!

He traveled to churches telling Christians it's OK to have political opinions and to try to seek influence in our culture.

OK.



Again, would you like to have a nuanced conversation? Are you saying that it's not OK for Christians to seek cultural influence, vote their consciences, try to keep their churches open against unconstitutional laws, try to prevent the disfigurement and sterilization of kids, registering voters?


And even if he were to go further than my opinion on Christian political activity. That's OK. It means he had a different opinion. Not that he was evil.
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how is the separation of church and state a "fabrication"?

I would like to hear this broken down. because I am pretty sure it relies on not-church and not-state being stand ins for church and state to make any sort of sense.
 
#5,733
#5,733
Orange_Crush said:
I don't generally think it's the company's fault. It's generally the mob of bullies trying to force the firing.
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is the mob the people boycotting, or the workers who didn't like it?

because the company relies on the "mob" to fund them, or to work for them. TRH clients lean a certain way I imagine. I believe its probably a pretty manicured image TRH works to maintain, any disruption to that image is going to be painful for the company.
 
#5,734
#5,734
InVOLuntary said:
Not really. Recent polling shows over 50% of democrats support assassinations of right wing politicos. We are not the same. Trying to appear in the middle just to be in the middle is weak.
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its not like the republicans were polling at 0%. so yes you are far more similar than you pretend to not be.

and of course its that way NOW. do that same poll when Obama was in charge and the percentages were probably flipped. its just like you see the loser complain about the budget when they lose, but go quiet on the budget when they win. same for ignoring the courts or listening to them. both sides are partisan AF, and too dumb to realize the parties are creating the division.
 
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#5,735
#5,735
volfanhill said:
I've yet to see anyone getting the boot for anything other than celebrating or justifying his murder. Plenty have sad he sucks but this shouldn't have happened
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There have been some fired for saying nothing more than they would not morn him, that they believed he was racist etc. something doing those lines. There is a which hunt afoot, and those always go too far.
 
#5,737
#5,737
InVOLuntary said:
Not really. Recent polling shows over 50% of democrats support assassinations of right wing politicos. We are not the same. Trying to appear in the middle just to be in the middle is weak.
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In April, the Network Contagion Research Institute, along with Rutgers University, found that 55% of self-identified left-of-center respondents said that it was at least somewhat justified to murder President Trump. Forty-eight percent said the same of Elon Musk, and 40% of respondents, including 59.6% of left-of-center respondents, said it was at least somewhat acceptable to destroy a Tesla dealership in protest.
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www.yahoo.com

Polls Show Rising Number of Americans Justify Political Violence

On Wednesday, Turning Point USA president Charlie Kirk was assassinated on the grounds of Utah Valley University.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
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#5,738
#5,738
LouderVol said:
how is the separation of church and state a "fabrication"?

I would like to hear this broken down. because I am pretty sure it relies on not-church and not-state being stand ins for church and state to make any sort of sense.
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Where is separation of church and state mentioned in the Constitution? You can infer that the federal govt is washing its hands from legislating the establishment of religion but that’s it. They did not want to advance one sect of Christianity over others. Had they, non-ratification or civil war was a likely possibility. Several of the states had established churches and it was constitutional because of the 10th amendment.
 
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#5,740
#5,740
LouderVol said:
is the mob the people boycotting, or the workers who didn't like it?

because the company relies on the "mob" to fund them, or to work for them. TRH clients lean a certain way I imagine. I believe its probably a pretty manicured image TRH works to maintain, any disruption to that image is going to be painful for the company.
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True or not, the Tweet in reference included the plea: "Please leave our servers alone. They didn't do anything wrong..." or something to that affect.

If a mob of online bullies are attacking an org to force a firing, I do not condone it. If a large number of customers in the market feel passionate enough to say, "I will take my business elsewhere because of this", I generally take no issue with it. It's basically free market at work.
 
#5,741
#5,741
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
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I didn't watch the clip but anyone with any awareness of where this society currently stands knows there is a huge divide, has been for some time. And I think it inevitable that more targeted violence occurs. I think anyone who is intellectually honest should be apprehensive about where we go from here.
 
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#5,742
#5,742
Orange_Crush said:
I'm not sure that I understand this sentence.
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I think in this case Charlie, and his supporters, are using different/uncommon definitions of either "church and state" or "separation of" to claim its a fabrication. I would like to hear what they actually mean by that.
 
#5,743
#5,743
midnight orange said:
Where is separation of church and state mentioned in the Constitution? You can infer that the federal govt is washing its hands from legislating the establishment of religion but that’s it. They did not want to advance one sect of Christianity over others. Had they, non-ratification or civil war was a likely possibility. Several of the states had established churches and it was constitutional because of the 10th amendment.
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A lot of people have been swindled to think that Freedom OF Religion means Freedom FROM religion.


But again, this will generally, almost inevitably, reach the point in the conversation when one side is effectively saying "You are a Christian that believes in an objective morality? Then you shouldn't be as politically active as I am with my personal, relative morality. You should divorce yourself from your beliefs in the 'real' world in a way that I don't".

It often gets asinine.
 
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#5,744
#5,744
midnight orange said:
Where is separation of church and state mentioned in the Constitution? You can infer that the federal govt is washing its hands from legislating the establishment of religion but that’s it. They did not want to advance one sect of Christianity over others. Had they, non-ratification or civil war was a likely possibility. Several of the states had established churches and it was constitutional because of the 10th amendment.
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"congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

the free exercise thereof is a pretty important clause. And I think its pretty clear it goes far beyond one Christian sect over another. it respects any religious choice, for or against.

keeping that separation of any religion from matters of state would be key in maintaining the free exercise thereof.
 
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#5,745
#5,745
Orange_Crush said:
True or not, the Tweet in reference included the plea: "Please leave our servers alone. They didn't do anything wrong..." or something to that affect.

If a mob of online bullies are attacking an org to force a firing, I do not condone it. If a large number of customers in the market feel passionate enough to say, "I will take my business elsewhere because of this", I generally take no issue with it. It's basically free market at work.
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I think any of us on the outside, including the corporate offices, aren't going to know who is actually a local customer, vs some Karen on the internet.

where I would say they messed up is not waiting to see how it goes. 2 weeks later and sales or staffing are way down, they would be justified to do something, including firing. if nothing changes its clearly just internet Karens worth ignoring. at least then they would have actionable intel vs a reaction.
 
#5,746
#5,746
LouderVol said:
I think in this case Charlie, and his supporters, are using different/uncommon definitions of either "church and state" or "separation of" to claim its a fabrication. I would like to hear what they actually mean by that.
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Feel free to read up on Charlie's definition. (I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I didn't bring it up. lg did. See what Charlie and his people said. See what lg means by it. As I've looked into it, the most common definitions used are a fabrication when one looks at what the Constitution says.)

Since some people claim that we are Constitutionally constrained to a Separation of Church and State, it would probably be more fruitful to ask them their definition and then ask them to prove the claim per that definition. Absence proof supporting their claim, we should be able to ignore the claims.
 
#5,747
#5,747
LouderVol said:
"congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

the free exercise thereof is a pretty important clause. And I think its pretty clear it goes far beyond one Christian sect over another. it respects any religious choice, for or against.

keeping that separation of any religion from matters of state would be key in maintaining the free exercise thereof.
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Congress will not establish a religion. Check. They haven't.

Congress shall not prohibit "the free exchange thereof"... The free exercise of religion?

OK. Sounds like freedom OF religion, as opposed to freedom FROM religion.
 
#5,748
#5,748
LouderVol said:
its not like the republicans were polling at 0%. so yes you are far more similar than you pretend to not be.

and of course its that way NOW. do that same poll when Obama was in charge and the percentages were probably flipped. its just like you see the loser complain about the budget when they lose, but go quiet on the budget when they win. same for ignoring the courts or listening to them. both sides are partisan AF, and too dumb to realize the parties are creating the division.
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No they weren't. You're trying to justify what you think is a cool position as hating everyone. It's a weak position. The poling has never shown that a significant portion of conservatives thought political assassinations were acceptable. We are not the same regardless of your efforts to try and place yourself in the middle.
 
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