Change in conditioning

[UTP69]

Question: There has been a lot written about how the fast pace offense puts the defense at a disadvantage because of fatigue. I'm wondering if that calls for a change in conditioning routine for the defensive players or is the fatigue offset by player depth. Don't different athletes have different workout routines?
If this a dumb question, I'm asking for my wife.

 

[vegasvolfan]

Question: There has been a lot written about how the fast pace offense puts the defense at a disadvantage because of fatigue. I'm wondering if that calls for a change in conditioning routine for the defensive players or is the fatigue offset by player depth. Don't different athletes have different workout routines?
If this a dumb question, I'm asking for my wife.

Yes they do and all of them need proper S&C which is fine opposite of what we had last year following Fitz’ departure. As for the D you saw Bama give up a lot of points in some games this year because of this same issue. Your D simply needs to be in incredible shape and deep... because they will be on the field ALOT. This gives players more opportunities though, so we can position it that way when trying to stack the cupboard.

 

[Eastknox865]

Yes they do and all of them need proper S&C which is fine opposite of what we had last year following Fitz’ departure. As for the D you saw Bama give up a lot of points in some games this year because of this same issue. Your D simply needs to be in incredible shape and deep... because they will be on the field ALOT. This gives players more opportunities though, so we can position it that way when trying to stack the cupboard.

You do realize this year most of the conditioning was done virtually.

 

[vegasvolfan]

You do realize this year most of the conditioning was done virtually.

every team had its challenges... we got our butts pushed around the entire season. Every position group struggled in areas directly linked to S&C. Receiver separation, creating holes, creating pressure, protecting the quarterback, getting a d push, getting off blocks, making tackles, breaking tackles and not gassing out in the second half and losing your lead like we did so many times. It in my opinion is the biggest reason we sucked this year. We just didn’t look like the same team and I think it’s because we didn’t have the same S&C coach. Every other coach was there the year before except the DL coach. The argument that every SEC coach just up and sucked all of the sudden doesn’t pass for me. I mean we went from an NFL stud to a guy who worked at App St and Duke. There’s going to be a drop off and there was.

 

[Rando]

TN has to recruit kids who love the weight room and started using it in high school. Introduction in college by S/C in college is assured of limited impact til late 2nd year more likely year 3. You can’t eat your way to strength!

 

[jwilliams]

Good news is our guys will be ready for this since they were constantly on the field last year too.

 

[majic73]

This style of football also limits platooning of specialty down and distance units and personnel. This affects teams like Bama that have enough quality depth to have defensive specialists. So on second down and medium you may have a heavy down end because run is probable. 3 and medium the defense wants a lighter pass rush guy on the end. But since they are doing the speed offense , if the offense doesnt sub - the defense doesnt get to and that 2nd down heavy guy is trapped on the field to pass rush. This wont be a factor for most "working class" teams but the it limits options for the super deep teams.

It is a double edged sword. You go three and out a couple of times with the fast pace offense ...your defense gets stuck on the field and brutalized. If they have no depth , they will be worthless by the second half. This system is ideal to open up a large lead and your defense is turned loose pass rushing while the other team tries to catch up. This is where Butch when wrong. He built a pass rush sort of D for that purpose , but could never open a large enough lead for his philosophy to take hold. I dont think this philosophy is valid to win the upper tier of SEC play. Hopefully a balanced, long haul defensive strategy will be built. When you play Bama , UGA, UF , and whoever pops up as a big time team , you are not going to "out score them " and it will be rare that you open a big lead on them . You have to stop them too

 

[Devo182]

Zero correlation between time of possession and winning, so don't really care. The #1 thing the team can do to keep the defense rested is to GET STOPS ON 3RD DOWN. Pruitt's defenses were awful at this, so they kept themselves out there more than needed. That said, they were not "gassed" like some said. They weren't getting beaten in 4th quarters...they were getting beaten right before and after halftime.

All the concern for a "gassed defense" has largely been disproven, just an old school misconception built around 100% BS like "ball control"...as if the offense players don't tire out too

 

[Eastknox865]

every team had its challenges... we got our butts pushed around the entire season. Every position group struggled in areas directly linked to S&C. Receiver separation, creating holes, creating pressure, protecting the quarterback, getting a d push, getting off blocks, making tackles, breaking tackles and not gassing out in the second half and losing your lead like we did so many times. It in my opinion is the biggest reason we sucked this year. We just didn’t look like the same team and I think it’s because we didn’t have the same S&C coach. Every other coach was there the year before except the DL coach. The argument that every SEC coach just up and sucked all of the sudden doesn’t pass for me. I mean we went from an NFL stud to a guy who worked at App St and Duke. There’s going to be a drop off and there was.

Condition this season was basically on the players to do what was asked of them.

 

[vegasvolfan]

Condition this season was basically on the players to do what was asked of them.

How do you know that they didn’t? And actually that is only true through the summer. The guy’s resume just wasn’t there. Still isn’t after last year. Fitz’s was. We need another stud.

 

[Bigorange123]

That’s why they all transfer. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

 

[vegasvolfan]

Good news is our guys will be ready for this since they were constantly on the field last year too.

Lol

 

[vegasvolfan]

Zero correlation between time of possession and winning, so don't really care. The #1 thing the team can do to keep the defense rested is to GET STOPS ON 3RD DOWN. Pruitt's defenses were awful at this, so they kept themselves out there more than needed. That said, they were not "gassed" like some said. They weren't getting beaten in 4th quarters...they were getting beaten right before and after halftime.

All the concern for a "gassed defense" has largely been disproven, just an old school misconception built around 100% BS like "ball control"...as if the offense players don't tire out too

Dude everyone said we just gave up... they were gassed and they got their butts kicked. We struggled in EVERY area I listed that benefits from S&C. But yes you are definitely right about the 3rd down situation. They did not help themselves. The issue was not just on D however and that, again, is why I point to an all encompassing issue and that is S&C. We just sucked everywhere last year.

 

[UGADawg4Life]

Question: There has been a lot written about how the fast pace offense puts the defense at a disadvantage because of fatigue. I'm wondering if that calls for a change in conditioning routine for the defensive players or is the fatigue offset by player depth. Don't different athletes have different workout routines?
If this a dumb question, I'm asking for my wife.

SEC college football players are all very conditioned.

 

[photovol]

Question: There has been a lot written about how the fast pace offense puts the defense at a disadvantage because of fatigue. I'm wondering if that calls for a change in conditioning routine for the defensive players or is the fatigue offset by player depth. Don't different athletes have different workout routines?
If this a dumb question, I'm asking for my wife.

You sure?

 

[loosecannon]

My best friend is a S&C coach at a different Power 5 school. He is actually educated in Exercise Physiology and understands the science. We were talking one day and he could not stop laughing at how stupid so many college coaches are. Many don't understand what a S/C program can do and can't and so many of these S/C coaches try to please their football coaches and do incredibly dumb stuff as a consequence.
Getting players in better shape is a total misnomer. What does get in better shape mean? Do we want guys who can play 80 snaps a game? Those guys are possible but will be blown off the ball. The best strength and conditioning program is one that has a team with depth period. Obviously nobody wants a bunch of sloppy players, but you can only increase endurance and muscular endurance so much before you start sacrificing other areas. See Butch Jones. He didn't get it. Totally S/C ignorant. Ruined guys. Always hurt why? Neuromuscular systems were destroyed and they broke down.

 

[CINCYVOL]

You do realize this year most of the conditioning was done virtually.

With virtual weights from what I saw on the field, hopefully this year they use real ones.

 

[Owl-flavored]

You do realize this year most of the conditioning was done virtually.

Yup, just like practically every other college football team.

 

[majic73]

Zero correlation between time of possession and winning, so don't really care. The #1 thing the team can do to keep the defense rested is to GET STOPS ON 3RD DOWN. Pruitt's defenses were awful at this, so they kept themselves out there more than needed. That said, they were not "gassed" like some said. They weren't getting beaten in 4th quarters...they were getting beaten right before and after halftime.

All the concern for a "gassed defense" has largely been disproven, just an old school misconception built around 100% BS like "ball control"...as if the offense players don't tire out too [/QUOTE

Time of possession is not a first order stat . But there is a direct correlation. For every additional minute that a team possesses the ball , they increase their odds of winning statistically by 22%. But it is a dependent stat , meaning that other things have to happen as well in addition to just increasing time of possession. Time of possession ideally is a measure of both offensive and defensive efficiency. The time of possession tends to increase when offense and / or defense efficiencies in crease which in turn is indicative of winning football. The efficiencies can also be measured by number of plays. Alot of three and outs translates into a lower TOP. Failing to stop the other teams drives translates into more TOP for the opponent.

I dont think anyone is claiming TOP is causative , because its not but it is indicative. The important thing about TOP is how and when the game is managed. How many times have you seen Bama open a three score lead and then change the play calling to a run based , grind the clock offense. They gained the lead with offensive efficiency , then they deny you the chance to score by possessing the ball with more offensive efficiency. This is turn keeps the defense off the field which increases defensive efficiency. Thus TOP is skewed to Bama ...but TOP is not what won the game.

I also want to add that defense is by far more tiring because offenses know where they are going and defenses do not. The entire argument for using a hurry up temp offense is to increase the drag on a defense. Athletes , no matter their condition, have a limited number of reps ( just like a baseball pitcher or a boxer spacing fights months apart ) . After that level has been reached , fatigue and injury begins setting in. Most coaches and trainers are well aware of this and with depth substitute to reduce overall reps on key players. Reps are viewed as cumulative over the length of a season.

This is all Vegas 101. You look at TOP first and then drill down to causations and efficiencies on both sides of the ball.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Zero correlation between time of possession and winning, so don't really care. The #1 thing the team can do to keep the defense rested is to GET STOPS ON 3RD DOWN. Pruitt's defenses were awful at this, so they kept themselves out there more than needed. That said, they were not "gassed" like some said. They weren't getting beaten in 4th quarters...they were getting beaten right before and after halftime.

All the concern for a "gassed defense" has largely been disproven, just an old school misconception built around 100% BS like "ball control"...as if the offense players don't tire out too

You got a link to any data to back that up statement about "ball control" and "misconceptions?" Thanks.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

How do you know that they didn’t? And actually that is only true through the summer. The guy’s resume just wasn’t there. Still isn’t after last year. Fitz’s was. We need another stud.

It was a big factor for our team last year. During the Winter workouts, when most of the strength build workouts occur, very little of the workouts were #supervised in person and the strength of the team suffered. Also, with Spring practice essentially canceled, Elayers were not able to learn the execution of the playbook. Add to that, the numbers of Summer workouts which were lost to COVID disease and quarantine, opportunities to increase strength and conditioning were available. I think the younger s players will show huge improvements in their strength and conditioning this Summer and Fall.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Conditioning? Suicides..all day..errday..till you puke.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

This is where bama has found the balance and luxury, they can go fast and then they get ahead and late in games they spread you out and run it down your throat keeping the ball and their defense rested. They can go into different gears of offense and wear you out. That's what I mean by balance. A team that has a ground and passing game is the hardest to stop for the best of teams. And still the most demoralizing thing for a defense is when you hand it off and they can't stop you. The passing game can open the run or vise versa, but passing and getting them secondaries tired and then running a big powerful back at them out of the spread is very hard to defend. GBO!!!!

 

[VolNGA1]

Time of possession is not a first order stat . But there is a direct correlation. For every additional minute that a team possesses the ball , they increase their odds of winning statistically by 22%. But it is a dependent stat , meaning that other things have to happen as well in addition to just increasing time of possession. Time of possession ideally is a measure of both offensive and defensive efficiency. The time of possession tends to increase when offense and / or defense efficiencies in crease which in turn is indicative of winning football. The efficiencies can also be measured by number of plays. Alot of three and outs translates into a lower TOP. Failing to stop the other teams drives translates into more TOP for the opponent.

I dont think anyone is claiming TOP is causative , because its not but it is indicative. The important thing about TOP is how and when the game is managed. How many times have you seen Bama open a three score lead and then change the play calling to a run based , grind the clock offense. They gained the lead with offensive efficiency , then they deny you the chance to score by possessing the ball with more offensive efficiency. This is turn keeps the defense off the field which increases defensive efficiency. Thus TOP is skewed to Bama ...but TOP is not what won the game.

I also want to add that defense is by far more tiring because offenses know where they are going and defenses do not. The entire argument for using a hurry up temp offense is to increase the drag on a defense. Athletes , no matter their condition, have a limited number of reps ( just like a baseball pitcher or a boxer spacing fights months apart ) . After that level has been reached , fatigue and injury begins setting in. Most coaches and trainers are well aware of this and with depth substitute to reduce overall reps on key players. Reps are viewed as cumulative over the length of a season.

This is all Vegas 101. You look at TOP first and then drill down to causations and efficiencies on both sides of the ball.

Maybe JG misunderstood the TOP metric, and thought the time he spent holding the ball in the pocket was helping?

 

[901 Orange]

Yes they do and all of them need proper S&C which is fine opposite of what we had last year following Fitz’ departure. As for the D you saw Bama give up a lot of points in some games this year because of this same issue. Your D simply needs to be in incredible shape and deep... because they will be on the field ALOT. This gives players more opportunities though, so we can position it that way when trying to stack the cupboard.

Seemed like our defense was on the field alot last year with all those 3 & outs. They are probably already used to it smh.