Can't coach speed

#52
#52
you can coach communication, diagnosis and technique. you get defensive guys better at diagnosing formations and match ups, they get faster by being in the right place, or having the correct angle.

same for offense....route running, timed patterns, O line getting to 2nd level and understanding blocking schemes.....etc, etc, etc...

it's not all about individual speed. when that matters is when you get in to space. past that, when most of the positions are on fairly even ground athletically, and in most cases, in this league, you have that....

get to your spot faster than your guy...either because you know what's going to happen, or because you just have God given athletic ability...

either way..........
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#54
#54
KBVol said:
4.4 is absolutely elite for a football player. Only on a track vs track athletes is it not elite. Versus 99.99% of the living population, 4.40 is elite speed.
Click to expand...

I guess we have to start parsing the terminology at some point though, don't we? If 4.4 is elite what do you call guys like John Ross, Tyreek Hill, JJ Nelson, Marquise Goodwin, etc currently playing? Uber elite?
 
#55
#55
hndog609 said:
I guess we have to start parsing the terminology at some point though, don't we? If 4.4 is elite what do you call guys like John Ross, Tyreek Hill, JJ Nelson, Marquise Goodwin, etc currently playing? Uber elite?
Click to expand...

I think in the grid of gridiron taxonomy, their speed rises to the "freak" level.

Although the "freak speed" label is usually relevant* to the player's size and position, I'm thinking the rule of thumb in most categories of life is "elite" are your top 10%, with "freak" being the top 1%.

* Of course, your results may vary according to car's condition, filter change interval and where and how you drive
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#57
#57
vol-un-tear said:
Think of where we were 5- 6 years ago, Remember guys like Brewer standing in mud while RB's and WR's blew by them. Now we are arguing about 4.4 speed. Good stuff!
Click to expand...

Yeah but Brewer wasn't there to run. He was pretty effective putting fear into anyone getting behind the linebackers. That kid hit like Bob Sanders
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#58
#58
BruisedOrange said:
I think in the grid of gridiron taxonomy, their speed rises to the "freak" level.

Although the "freak speed" label is usually relevant* to the player's size and position, I'm thinking the rule of thumb in most categories of life is "elite" are your top 10%, with "freak" being the top 1%.

* Of course, your results may vary according to car's condition, filter change interval and where and how you drive
Click to expand...

Actually I think I've found a more empirical way to make an observation. I looked up the starting receivers for the AFC (NFC was available but I'm not that bored, I think the sample size is sufficient) and of the starters listed (just WR, some teams had slot receivers listed) that had combine times listed on the NFL site (not all players ran 40's at the combine) I came up with this for 24 players:

16 ran a 4.45 or better
8 ran under 4.4
only 6 were over 4.4

So there were actually more people under 4.4 than over. In light of this I really start to question the idea of considering 4.4 "elite" at the WR position in the NFL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#59
#59
hndog609 said:
Actually I think I've found a more empirical way to make an observation. I looked up the starting receivers for the AFC...

So there were actually more people under 4.4 than over. In light of this I really start to question the idea of considering 4.4 "elite" at the WR position in the NFL.
Click to expand...

:question: At the risk of corrupting your math (nice work slipping some facts into a volnation thread) by subjecting it to the vagueries of language...

If we consider NFL players to be the elite of all football (top 10%), then by that measure, if speed under 4.4 is freaky, then freaks reside in the top 2.5% rather than the top 1%.

Hope that helps everyone sleep better tonight. :snoring:
 
#60
#60
BruisedOrange said:
:question: At the risk of corrupting your math (nice work slipping some facts into a volnation thread) by subjecting it to the vagueries of language...

If we consider NFL players to be the elite of all football (top 10%), then by that measure, if speed under 4.4 is freaky, then freaks reside in the top 2.5% rather than the top 1%.

Hope that helps everyone sleep better tonight. :snoring:
Click to expand...

The apples to apples in play is coming up with some line of demarcation among peers, in this case NFL receivers. From what I've gleaned from my bit of research it would appear "elite" speed in the 40 (as defined by the time being demonstrably faster than average) you need to be under 4.4...probably closer to 4.35.

There seems to be a real mismash of context being bandied about here. There's little point in comparing dissimilar examplars. I took the conversation to be where does a 4.4 stack up regarding the term "elite" and NFL WR's. I'm now pretty dubious that holds up under scrutiny.
 
#61
#61
hndog609 said:
I guess we have to start parsing the terminology at some point though, don't we? If 4.4 is elite what do you call guys like John Ross, Tyreek Hill, JJ Nelson, Marquise Goodwin, etc currently playing? Uber elite?
Click to expand...

"Uber elite", "out of this world fast", whatever, take your pick. 😁

My thought, right or wrong, was to compare Josh's speed to both his peers at the NFL combine and to the population at large when saying he has elite speed....the discussion veered in that direction imo.

Josh's 40 time at the combine was 8th overall, out of about 270 guys who ran (all positions, not just WRs)....which made him faster than 97% or so faster than the other participants there...and surely faster than approximately 99.999% of all other humans on the planet. Imho, "elite".

Also, Goodwin ran 4.27, Ross 4.22, Nelson 4.28, Hill 4.24.....so what is the difference we're talking here between those times and Josh's 4.40?....half a step or so?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#62
#62
KBVol said:
"Uber elite", "out of this world fast", whatever, take your pick. 😁

My thought, right or wrong, was to compare Josh's speed to both his peers at the NFL combine and to the population at large when saying he has elite speed....the discussion veered in that direction imo.

Josh's 40 time at the combine was 8th overall, out of about 270 guys who ran (all positions, not just WRs)....which made him faster than 97% or so faster than the other participants there...and surely faster than approximately 99.999% of all other humans on the planet. Imho, "elite".

Also, Goodwin ran 4.27, Ross 4.22, Nelson 4.28, Hill 4.24.....so what is the difference we're talking here between those times and Josh's 4.40?....half a step or so?
Click to expand...

Exactly KB. If we have 400 WRs playing, on DL, practice squads etc in the NFL, let's say all of 'em are sub 4.4 guys. Out of a US population of 330 million to be one of those 400 is pretty &$#king elite.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
New Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

Advertisement



Back
Top