Can we now put the youth excuse to bed?

[walkenvol]

Most of the starters will have at least one year of playing and weight room time. Many of the recruits will play and the depth players of the team will be young. We will still be a young team until 2014 kids are juniors. We still will have 18-19 year olds playing against 21-22 year olds. They will be talented but still young. Problem is that the competition-AL, GA, OK and more will have and have had great recruiting classes for several years instead of just 2. It comes down to 2015 should be a 8 to 9 win season and 2016 is the year we can be realistic to expect championships.

In 2015;
18 - KMac
19 - Hurd, Burnette, Moseley, and Robertson
20 - North, Dobbs, Wolf
21 - Croom, Smith, JRM (almost), Sutton (almost), Weathered
22 - Pig, McNeal, Ellis, Maggitt, Blair, O'Brien, Kerby
23 - Randolph, Crowder, Jackson
24 - Williams
25 - Pearson

IMHO the bolded yonger guys demand playing time regardless of age.

Everyone can argue about who will be starters but all can agree those listed will see significant playing time. Strikes me as a pretty good spread of ages with very few young non-elites playing.

If I'm all wet, do the same reasearch for the top recruiting SEC schools and prove me wrong.

 

[walkenvol]

we will compete for the East but we will not feature a majority of our starters with a Jr or Sr next to their name. When we can have that then we are no longer a young team.

I count 15-17 of next year's starters being Juniors or Seniors so by your own criteria UT will not be young next year. :good!:

 

[BeattieFeathers]

Beattie sucked up to Fournette at LSU before he ever took an SEC snap (still does on a UT board every chance he gets) and downplays McKenzie, a kid that sat out his senior year of hs due to transfer rules, was invited to every all star game in the world, rated in the top 10 of all recruits nationally by every rating service around, could play fball at any school in the US, and troll/clown doubts him. Beyotch please!

Yes I have my doubts. He isn't a can't miss prospect. I was proven right about fournette. I was proven right about Dobbs......seems you don't want to give me credit for him. I was here after the open scrimmage of 2013 that Dobbs had the it factor. While everyone pined for the human myth ferguson, I was banging the drum for Dobbs! Dobbs will do for us what Peyton did.
I am at a loss to explain why we are taking 7 d linemen. I suspect a couple might move to the oline. Mckenzie would make a heckuva ot. It's not out of tge question.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

I count 15-17 of next year's starters being Juniors or Seniors so by your own criteria UT will not be young next year. :good!:

Stop with the nonsense. Every commentator will call us a young team.

 

[butchna]

well, as long as we don't have to hear about how many 17 year olds we have playing???? FTR, none this season.

..but "youth" is always the default button when coaches answer questions. It's the coaching equivalent of "valley speak"....."you know"....

How come you don't speak English anymore? :huh:

 

[SECVolFan]

*Had to edit because it had the quoted name wrong? Don't know how that happened.

I don't know of a team that is made up of a majority of Juniors and Seniors. There is attrition every year. By your logic we will never have a team not considered young.

Feel free to do so....I did the research for our team and posted it proving IMHO that we won't be young next season.

Look at who's been winning the Heisman prior to this season....not 4 and 5 year players recently.

Okay, I did. I only had time to look at the full rosters of the 4 teams in the College Football Playoffs though.

Oregon:
45 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
15 Redshirt Sophomores

Florida State:
53 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
12 Redshirt Sophomores

Alabama:
48 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
11 Redshirt Sophomores

Ohio State:
50 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
9 Redshirt Sophomores


Oh, and all but Oregon have had top 5-6 recruiting classes for the past 4 years (with Alabama having the #1 three times and Florida State the other) so everyone from True Freshman to Senior comes from a talented class. Btw, only our True Freshman, RS Freshman and True Sophomores can make that claim next year.

In conclusion, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[sjt18]

*Had to edit because it had the quoted name wrong? Don't know how that happened.





Okay, I did. I only had time to look at the full rosters of the 4 teams in the College Football Playoffs though.

Oregon:
45 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
15 Redshirt Sophomores

Florida State:
53 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
12 Redshirt Sophomores

Alabama:
48 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
11 Redshirt Sophomores

Ohio State:
50 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
9 Redshirt Sophomores


Oh, and all but Oregon have had top 5-6 recruiting classes for the past 4 years (with Alabama having the #1 three times and Florida State the other) so everyone from True Freshman to Senior comes from a talented class. Btw, only our True Freshman, RS Freshman and True Sophomores can make that claim next year.

In conclusion, you don't know what you are talking about.

Why would the full roster mean anything?

The more important factor would be the two deep. Here's a site that seems to do a pretty good job of keeping the actual two deep for each team current... even UT that doesn't really seem to publish accurate two deeps very often:

2015 Alabama Crimson Tide Football Depth Chart | Ourlads.com

Just a quick survey...

19 of Bama's top 44 are underclassmen (but their starter losses on O are encouraging)

19 of FSU's top 44 are underclassmen but concentrated on D.

23 of tOSU's top 44 are underclassmen

Surprisingly to me, 20 of Oregon's top 44 are underclassmen.



You aren't completely wrong IMO. But UT's experience based strictly on years in CFB will be only slightly less this fall than the 4 playoff teams.

 

[sjt18]

W

If you don't think UT is positioned to be competitive with everyone next season, then it must be that our players are simply not talented enough or we're thin on talented back ups. There's plenty of age and experience returning for 2015.

The coaching has to be good/better also.

Of course this doesn't guarantee SEC championships, but UT is plenty experienced to compete with everybody in the NCAA IMHO, JMO, TIFWIW.

IMO, UT should win 8+ next fall. Strictly in terms of age, they'll be a little behind the better programs they face. Game experience will line up better.

The bigger issues are what happens on the OL then behind that depth at RB and DL. UT will count on newcomers A LOT in the latter two groups. They have to find a LT or the O will once again be handicapped in a way that allows opposing D's to crowd up to the LOS.

 

[walkenvol]

*Had to edit because it had the quoted name wrong? Don't know how that happened.





Okay, I did. I only had time to look at the full rosters of the 4 teams in the College Football Playoffs though.

Oregon:
45 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
15 Redshirt Sophomores

Florida State:
53 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
12 Redshirt Sophomores

Alabama:
48 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
11 Redshirt Sophomores

Ohio State:
50 Juniors and Seniors (including Redshirts)
9 Redshirt Sophomores


Oh, and all but Oregon have had top 5-6 recruiting classes for the past 4 years (with Alabama having the #1 three times and Florida State the other) so everyone from True Freshman to Senior comes from a talented class. Btw, only our True Freshman, RS Freshman and True Sophomores can make that claim next year.

In conclusion, you don't know what you are talking about.

Listing the entire roster is comparing apples to oranges. I listed the probably starters for 2015 not the entire roster.

 

[sjt18]

Listing the entire roster is comparing apples to oranges. I listed the probably starters for 2015 not the entire roster.

The caveat to that is that their young players would have beaten out the more experienced players on their roster. OTOH, UT played many young guys this year against the best their tough schedule had to offer. At worst, it is a wash. At best, I think I'd rather have players with live experience.

 

[volfaninutah]

Youth will still be a factor next year. Majority of our starters will be Sophs. But, they will have a year experience under their belts. Butch's system will be in its third year and should start making serious headway in the right direction. In three years, this program will be a monster...

 

[SECVolFan]

I don't know of a team that is made up of a majority of Juniors and Seniors. There is attrition every year. By your logic we will never have a team not considered young.

Listing the entire roster is comparing apples to oranges. I listed the probably starters for 2015 not the entire roster.

So I prove you wrong and then you change your tune to make it look like I didn't? Nice.

Last time I checked, the TEAM is made up of 85 players, not just the ones who start the game. In the SEC, especially, you have to have a couple guys behind you to give you quality depth. Listing the complete roster is very indicative of the state of the youthfulness of a program.

Also, I looked at that site sjt18 linked, and it says Alabama only has 1 underclassmen offensive starter, and only 4 underclassmen defensive starters. So if you want to be dumb (IMHO) and only look at the starters, then there ya go.

 

[livefaith]

We still had several Freshman players this year that will be starters and significant contributors next year. A lot of this years recruits will see plenty of playing time as well. So to answer your question, no. We will still be young overall.

Yep. We will not be as "young" as this year. But, we will still have "too much" youth in the 2-deep to the staff's liking. 16' and fwd is envisioned to feature more developed upperclassmen in the 2-deep and the opportunity to redshirt a lot more freshmen than we are at this point.

Like the guy above said "youth will be a fact", but should not be a primary excuse in 15'. Talent and years in the system may be tho.

 

[livefaith]

So I prove you wrong and then you change your tune to make it look like I didn't? Nice.

Last time I checked, the TEAM is made up of 85 players, not just the ones who start the game. In the SEC, especially, you have to have a couple guys behind you to give you quality depth. Listing the complete roster is very indicative of the state of the youthfulness of a program.

Also, I looked at that site sjt18 linked, and it says Alabama only has 1 underclassmen offensive starter, and only 4 underclassmen defensive starters. So if you want to be dumb (IMHO) and only look at the starters, then there ya go.

I agree. The team youth as a whole matters. Starters matter most, 2nd string matters, everybody else matters less. That's my philosophy anyway.

 

[Volador]

Can we now put the youth excuse to bed?

Amen! I have tons of posts from earlier in the Fall stating that we are a TALENTED team, not young. And so now finally people are seeing just how TALENTED we are.

 

[Smokeybluetick]

Without doubt, Ut was a young team overall in 2014. Several on VN appear to want to carry that mantra into 2015. Will that still be a fair opinion? A player only gets 4 seasons - at what point are they no longer considered young?

Returning starters for 2015;

On O;
-Dobbs a Junior QB who has started games in both 2013 and 2014
-Pig a senior who has started games for 3 years
-North a junior who has started for 2 years
-Josh Smith a red shirt soph..started games in 2 seasons
-Pearson a 24 year old senior
-Croom a RS junior
-(2) 5* RB's one a soph and the other a red shirt soph
-(2) RS seniors and a returning soph starter maning the interior OL
-a probable highly ranked juco RS junior at LT pushing a RS senior over to RT.
- a RS senior, junior and soph at TE

On D;
-freshman All American soph and RS senior at DE backed up by a junior and rs junior
-RS junior and juco senior along with (2) 5* freshman DT
-all sec caliber junior LB, senior juco in Weathered along with tons of other talent from which to choose
-a senior and rs senior with 6 years of starts between them at sefety
-an all sec junior along with a bunch of soph talent fighting for the other CB

If you don't think UT is positioned to be competitive with everyone next season, then it must be that our players are simply not talented enough or we're thin on talented back ups. There's plenty of age and experience returning for 2015.

Of course this doesn't guarantee SEC championships, but UT is plenty experienced to compete with everybody in the NCAA IMHO, JMO, TIFWIW.

appraised it and "Not worth much"your humble opinion I mean!!! You do realize the Vols were the youngest team in the country this year and will be relying on the 14 class next year like we did the 2013 recruits this year. They should no longer be considered young when they don't have to count on true freshmen and Sophomores
!!IMHO,JMO,TIFWIW, FUVMYSMF, SMDAEMAYSMF!!!!!! :crazy:

 

[chargervol]

Almost stopped reading when op called youth an excuse.
Sure this has been said in thread but yes, we will be better off.
And no, this does not put us as deep as we need to be to compete with all other SEC teams. Rotation and back ups for injuries are needed for that.
But we are definately closer.

 

[sjt18]

Also, I looked at that site sjt18 linked, and it says Alabama only has 1 underclassmen offensive starter, and only 4 underclassmen defensive starters. So if you want to be dumb (IMHO) and only look at the starters, then there ya go.

You need to be a little more forgiving. The answer is in between. Your use of the whole roster doesn't paint an accurate picture nor does looking at the starting line up only. You are right in that the depth is what is important... but the depth of the teams you listed isn't with the older players. Those players have been passed by talented young players.

The projection for UT's O as we sit now next fall would be 4 RS Srs, 1 Sr, 3 Jrs, and 3 Sophs. Eight upper classmen. The back ups would be mostly Sophs and Jrs.

The D will have a 4 Srs, 4 Jrs, and 3 Sophs again backed up primarily by Sophs and Jrs.

If freshmen beat some of these out then all the better, right?

 

[BeattieFeathers]

The coaching has to be good/better also.



IMO, UT should win 8+ next fall. Strictly in terms of age, they'll be a little behind the better programs they face. Game experience will line up better.

The bigger issues are what happens on the OL then behind that depth at RB and DL. UT will count on newcomers A LOT in the latter two groups. They have to find a LT or the O will once again be handicapped in a way that allows opposing D's to crowd up to the LOS.

I see us breaking some losing streaks next season. I think 8 is the floor for this team. Could win 10 plus bowl.

 

[MedicT]

I see us breaking some losing streaks next season. I think 8 is the floor for this team. Could win 10 plus bowl.

Based on what, a warm fuzzy feeling?

I appreciate your enthusiasm but I also see it as part of a problem. That is the fact that many will use such a prediction as an indicator of failure when reality turns out to be somewhat less than such a prediction. All the while the team is actually continuing to progress nicely. Oh well, I suppose when so many have such a deep seated need to see failure it is unavoidable.

 

[ImportedVoL]

Listing the entire roster is comparing apples to oranges. I listed the probably starters for 2015 not the entire roster.

You have to look at full rosters, because that it what depth comes from.

for example our bowl win..

Iowa had 7 points until we pulled our two deep and put in the rest..

Then they scored three times and we scored Zero..

If the rest of the team was up to par, we would not be forced to play our stars so many snaps and we would not have the injury problem that we have had..

It is not rocket science, when we are not one of the youngest teams in the NATION.. youth will not be an issue.

When we play the most freshman in the NATION.. then youth IS an issue.

Next year it will be less of a factor, but it will still be a factor we need to overcome.

Excuses are things you search for.. Reasons are FACTS.

You keep talking about holding coaches responsible, The SIMPLE FACT of the matter is our players improve every year and they are recruiting TOP talent. You can not ask for more then that. If you try then you are an Idiot.

 

[MustafaRasta]

Based on what, a warm fuzzy feeling?

I appreciate your enthusiasm but I also see it as part of a problem. That is the fact that many will use such a prediction as an indicator of failure when reality turns out to be somewhat less than such a prediction. All the while the team is actually continuing to progress nicely. Oh well, I suppose when so many have such a deep seated need to see failure it is unavoidable.

Based on they won 7 this year despite losing significant starters to injury or suspension. WTF you're educated and don't understand 8 is just one more than 7?

I understand caution but it's not like he's calling for a National title. Just 8 wins, that should be the benchmark for 2015.

 

[tenninohio]

How come you don't speak English anymore? :huh:

once you graduate from elementary school, that larger vocabulary comes along.

Keep working hard to get that diploma.

 

[oregonvol]

Based on what, a warm fuzzy feeling?

I appreciate your enthusiasm but I also see it as part of a problem. That is the fact that many will use such a prediction as an indicator of failure when reality turns out to be somewhat less than such a prediction. All the while the team is actually continuing to progress nicely. Oh well, I suppose when so many have such a deep seated need to see failure it is unavoidable.

And some have a deep seated need to set standards so low that they can declare anything a success. How can this team be "progressing nicely" if they can't manage to improve on this season by a single win next year? That would be 8, which is what Beattie said was the floor. I don't see the problem there.

 

[walkenvol]

You have to look at full rosters, because that it what depth comes from.

for example our bowl win..

Iowa had 7 points until we pulled our two deep and put in the rest..

Then they scored three times and we scored Zero..

If the rest of the team was up to par, we would not be forced to play our stars so many snaps and we would not have the injury problem that we have had..

I don't follow this logic....once the outcome of any game is decided, it wouldn't matter if the cheerleaders were inserted?

Other than Worley who was beat to death due to the aweful O-line play, it was only the receivers who were hit by the injury bug and that was the deepest position group on the team. The rest of the team remained quite healthy in terms of a college football players throughout a season IMHO.