Butch vs Johnny

[Backwards K]

Johnny Majors took over a Tennessee program that was not as far down as it was when Butch stepped in. When Johnny took over in 1977, Tennessee had not suffered a losing season since 1962. Also, at the time, teams only played a six game SEC schedule. Compare Johnny's first four years to what Butch has done:

Johnny went 4-7, 5-5-1, 7-5, and 5-6 (21-23-1 -- .467). That included one bowl appearance, a loss to Purdue in the Bluebonnet Bowl. To add to that the next four years were 8-4, 6-5-1, 9-3, and 7-4-1 (8 yr total = 51-39-2 - .559). These years included trips to the Garden State Bowl (W), Peach Bowl (L), Citrus Bowl (W), and the Sun Bowl (L).

Butch took over a dumpster fire of a program that had suffered losing seasons in 3 consecutive seasons prior and 4 of the previous 5. He has gone 5-7, 7-6, 9-4 and is presently 8-3 (29-20 -- .591). This included trips to the Gator Bowl (W) and the Outback Bowl (W).

Yet, many of the same folks who want to canonize Johnny want to fire Butch.

 

[GAVol]

I've always said, In today's environment, Johnny probably wouldn't have made it past year 4 and for sure not after year 6.

 

[volfannbama]

Man I dont want to be rude, but there are seriously about 5 other threads talking about this.

I do agree though, there should be absolutely no question about CBJ job security, provided we beat Vandy.

 

[JPL]

Johnny Majors took over a Tennessee program that was not as far down as it was when Butch stepped in. When Johnny took over in 1977, Tennessee had not suffered a losing season since 1962. Also, at the time, teams only played a six game SEC schedule. Compare Johnny's first four years to what Butch has done:

Johnny went 4-7, 5-5-1, 7-5, and 5-6 (21-23-1 -- .467). That included one bowl appearance, a loss to Purdue in the Bluebonnet Bowl. To add to that the next four years were 8-4, 6-5-1, 9-3, and 7-4-1 (8 yr total = 51-39-2 - .559). These years included trips to the Garden State Bowl (W), Peach Bowl (L), Citrus Bowl (W), and the Sun Bowl (L).

Butch took over a dumpster fire and has gone 5-7, 7-6, 9-4 and is presently 8-3 (29-20 -- .591). This included trips to the Gator Bowl (W) and the Outback Bowl (W).

Yet, many of the same folks who want to canonize Johnny want to fire Butch.

All things considered I think it is time to cut Butch some slack. We very easily could be where TX is right now. I hate that FL is going back to the SECCG but it is what it is.

I for one will be delighted if UT makes the Sugar bowl and still very happy if UT makes the Citrus bowl. Beat vandy!

GO VOLS!!!

 

[Smallvol#1]

I've always said, In today's environment, Johnny probably wouldn't have made it past year 4 and for sure not after year 6.

You have. :hi:
Also remember Johnny was a Tennesse boy and the star of a Tennesse team, and all true VFLs will always remember he was cheated out of the Heistman:rock:.

 

[SDV]

Johnny had also been a legendary player and Heisman runner up at UT, and had just won a national championship. That buys you more time

 

[The Tall Gguy]

This year was not what it should have been...period. There were reasons.

In this participation trophy society, winning and losing have lost much of their significance.

It is just fine to be upset about ANOTHER letdown of a season, and it is ok to vent about it--just don't expect everyone to agree.

it is also ok if you accept this is where we will be and are ok with it--just don't expect everyone to agree.

Personally, I think Butch has taken us as far as he can and I am grateful for what he has done for the program. I believe it is time to make some changes. However, thanks to our kooky AD and his making extensions rain every year, Butch has at least 3 more years.

 

[MiramarVol]

All things considered I think it is time to cut Butch some slack. We very easily could be where TX is right now. I hate that FL is going back to the SECCG but it is what it is.

I for one will be delighted if UT makes the Sugar bowl and still very happy if UT makes the Citrus bowl. Beat vandy!

GO VOLS!!!

UF is going back because they took care of business. We on the other hand didn't. Blame coaches, blame players, blame injuries or whoever you want. A loss is a loss. If LSU could gain a yard, we'd all be high five'n and chest bumping.
I'm glad we are not in Texas' shoes. Just as the coach gets some of his players in, he's gone. You have to win, and CBJ is winning. But, our fans have this entitled metality because we won a NC in '98 that none of them thought we'd win, and if Wienke had played, we'd probably lost anyway. We have the potential at back to back 9 win seasons. 1st time since 03-04 seasons. But, we have gripers wearing diapers for fans.

 

[Sandman 423]

Johnny had also been a legendary player and Heisman runner up at UT, and had just won a national championship. That buys you more time

Fulmer would disagree... One real losing season out of 17 and he was canned. He was a good player and a VFL and that got him very little rope. The reason I say one real losing season is because I believe he was fired the week of the Wyoming game to guarantee a losing season so MH wouldn't be the guy that fired a coach after a 6-6 or 7-5 season. While Fulmer could not beat Myer, or Saban, who has?


Championships
1 National (1998)
2 SEC (1997, 1998)
6 SEC Eastern Division (1997, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007)

 

[Top Gun]

Fulmer would disagree... One real losing season out of 17 and he was canned. He was a good player and a VFL and that got him very little rope. The reason I say one real losing season is because I believe he was fired the week of the Wyoming game to guarantee a losing season so MH wouldn't be the guy that fired a coach after a 6-6 or 7-5 season. While Fulmer could not beat Myer, or Saban, who has?


Championships
1 National (1998)
2 SEC (1997, 1998)
6 SEC Eastern Division (1997, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007)

Good post! I think you mean Spurrier, not Saban.

 

[Madscientistvol]

Man I dont want to be rude, but there are seriously about 5 other threads talking about this.

I do agree though, there should be absolutely no question about CBJ job security, provided we beat Vandy.

Barring some major title IX stuff or Butch just Petrino'ing himself there's no chance he's fired this year.

 

[Backwards K]

In this participation trophy society, winning and losing have lost much of their significance.

.

This statement shows a complete lack of understanding of everything that goes into a competing at the highest levels. In my opinion, it takes a miserable person to not be able to see and appreciate the hard work that has gone into the improvement and accomplishments of the Tennessee football program over the past couple of seasons.

Many of the folks whining about not winning a championship probably never competed for anything in their lives. If this team wins on Saturday and goes to another New Year's bowl, I guarantee you they will be proud of their accomplishments and rightfully so.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

This statement shows a complete lack of understanding of everything that goes into a competing at the highest levels. In my opinion, it takes a miserable person to not be able to see and appreciate the hard work that has gone into the improvement and accomplishments of the Tennessee football program over the past couple of seasons.

Many of the folks whining about not winning a championship probably never competed for anything in their lives. If this team wins on Saturday and goes to another New Year's bowl, I guarantee you they will be proud of their accomplishments and rightfully so.

You forgot to quote the part where I said "I am grateful for what he has done for the program."

PS:

I have several medals, plaques and trophies (for actually winning) that would argue that I know about competing.

 

[fade route]

Johnny Majors took over a Tennessee program that was not as far down as it was when Butch stepped in. When Johnny took over in 1977, Tennessee had not suffered a losing season since 1962. Also, at the time, teams only played a six game SEC schedule. Compare Johnny's first four years to what Butch has done:

Johnny went 4-7, 5-5-1, 7-5, and 5-6 (21-23-1 -- .467). That included one bowl appearance, a loss to Purdue in the Bluebonnet Bowl. To add to that the next four years were 8-4, 6-5-1, 9-3, and 7-4-1 (8 yr total = 51-39-2 - .559). These years included trips to the Garden State Bowl (W), Peach Bowl (L), Citrus Bowl (W), and the Sun Bowl (L).

Butch took over a dumpster fire of a program that had suffered losing seasons in 3 consecutive seasons prior and 4 of the previous 5. He has gone 5-7, 7-6, 9-4 and is presently 8-3 (29-20 -- .591). This included trips to the Gator Bowl (W) and the Outback Bowl (W).

Yet, many of the same folks who want to canonize Johnny want to fire Butch.

Both are/were very average

 

[JPL]

UF is going back because they took care of business. We on the other hand didn't. Blame coaches, blame players, blame injuries or whoever you want. A loss is a loss. If LSU could gain a yard, we'd all be high five'n and chest bumping.
I'm glad we are not in Texas' shoes. Just as the coach gets some of his players in, he's gone. You have to win, and CBJ is winning. But, our fans have this entitled metality because we won a NC in '98 that none of them thought we'd win, and if Wienke had played, we'd probably lost anyway. We have the potential at back to back 9 win seasons. 1st time since 03-04 seasons. But, we have gripers wearing diapers for fans.

The folks that argue how easily we could be 6-5 need to also realize how easily we could be 10-1. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.

GO VOLS!!!

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

This year was not what it should have been...period. There were reasons.

In this participation trophy society, winning and losing have lost much of their significance.

It is just fine to be upset about ANOTHER letdown of a season, and it is ok to vent about it--just don't expect everyone to agree.

it is also ok if you accept this is where we will be and are ok with it--just don't expect everyone to agree.

Personally, I think Butch has taken us as far as he can and I am grateful for what he has done for the program. I believe it is time to make some changes. However, thanks to our kooky AD and his making extensions rain every year, Butch has at least 3 more years.

Those facts just drive you negavols insane eh? You get a 🍼.

 

[40Cap]

Fulmer would disagree... One real losing season out of 17 and he was canned. He was a good player and a VFL and that got him very little rope. The reason I say one real losing season is because I believe he was fired the week of the Wyoming game to guarantee a losing season so MH wouldn't be the guy that fired a coach after a 6-6 or 7-5 season. While Fulmer could not beat Myer, or Saban, who has?


Championships
1 National (1998)
2 SEC (1997, 1998)
6 SEC Eastern Division (1997, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007)

Majors was fired and won his last few games, Dooley was fired and we beat Kentucky. Why did Fulmer getting fired guarantee a loss to WYOMING??? It wasn't 1 losing season in 17 years that got PF fired (he only coached 16), it was 2 REAL losing seasons in 4 years that did him in.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

I'll give credit where it is due, but I will also point out the shortcomings (which unfortunately have and continue to overshadow the successes).

For instance, Dobbs played lights out Saturday--best game I have ever seen him play. Our defense looked lost.

Our Special Teams are very good, but other teams know that and due to the silly "safety rules" the kickers kick the ball out of the endzone to take our ST out of the equation.

Our O-line has been awful all year. Our RBs and Dobbs have EARNED every yard.

Our coaches put up with mouthing off and bad attitudes for much too long. That kind of stuff must be handled immediately.

Our excessive number of injuries, while unfortunate, point to a larger issue that must be addressed before next season.

Our recruiting has been great and needs to focus on filling the gaps we have.

The loss at USCjr was inexcusable, injuries, hurd, or not. The gameday preparation has been inconsistent and the team has not looked ready to play in the 1st half several times this season.

We have won 8 games and should win 9. The bowl we get will likely be another letdown.

We should be playing Saturday for Atlanta, now we are playing for a Dec 30 or 31 bowl against an overrated team

 

[SDV]

Fulmer would disagree... One real losing season out of 17 and he was canned. He was a good player and a VFL and that got him very little rope. The reason I say one real losing season is because I believe he was fired the week of the Wyoming game to guarantee a losing season so MH wouldn't be the guy that fired a coach after a 6-6 or 7-5 season. While Fulmer could not beat Myer, or Saban, who has?


Championships
1 National (1998)
2 SEC (1997, 1998)
6 SEC Eastern Division (1997, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007)

Yes, he got 17 seasons. That is a long time. And 2 of his last 3 were losing and no improvement in sight. Recruiting slipping, etc. I could go on and on

 

[eskimovol]

Probably playing in the Sugar Bowl is a let down bowl game? I strongly disagree with that, most people I saw thought we would get to 9-3 or 10-2 and that's right where we are. Sure, the loss to the gamecocks sucks but EVERY team has that 1 bad loss most years. I'm not crazy about CBJ but I also don't think he has hit his ceiling either. What he does in the off season will show us,imo, what kind of coach he is/can be. The coaching changes are coming, it's just who the replacements are that will worry or excite us.

 

[Backwards K]

I'll give credit where it is due, but I will also point out the shortcomings (which unfortunately have and continue to overshadow the successes).

For instance, Dobbs played lights out Saturday--best game I have ever seen him play. Our defense looked lost.

Our Special Teams are very good, but other teams know that and due to the silly "safety rules" the kickers kick the ball out of the endzone to take our ST out of the equation.

Our O-line has been awful all year. Our RBs and Dobbs have EARNED every yard.

Our coaches put up with mouthing off and bad attitudes for much too long. That kind of stuff must be handled immediately.

Our excessive number of injuries, while unfortunate, point to a larger issue that must be addressed before next season.

Our recruiting has been great and needs to focus on filling the gaps we have.

The loss at USCjr was inexcusable, injuries, hurd, or not. The gameday preparation has been inconsistent and the team has not looked ready to play in the 1st half several times this season.

We have won 8 games and should win 9. The bowl we get will likely be another letdown.

We should be playing Saturday for Atlanta, now we are playing for a Dec 30 or 31 bowl against an overrated team

All legitimate points made in a rational manner. I agree with most of this but don't think it rises to the point of firing the Head Coach.

 

[40Cap]

Yes, he got 17 seasons. That is a long time. And 2 of his last 3 were losing and no improvement in sight. Recruiting slipping, etc. I could go on and on

16 seasons, 2 of last 4 were losing records

 

[Wood Man]

You have. :hi:
Also remember Johnny was a Tennesse boy and the star of a Tennesse team, and all true VFLs will always remember he was cheated out of the Heistman:rock:.

And screwed while laid up at UT Medical Center by fat boy. If Johnny had today's facilities, players, training methods, etc. he would have done extremely well.

 

[Backwards K]

16 seasons, 2 of last 4 were losing records

And in those last four seasons, the Vols were 29-21 with two appearances in the Outback Bowl. Also, 2 of last 5 seasons ended in the SECCG.

Some folks :lolabove: can't get past the fact that Fulmer is a first ballot Hall of Fame coach and Johnny is not eligible for the Hall because his winning percentage is not high enough.

 

[YorkVol]

Johnny Majors took over a Tennessee program that was not as far down as it was when Butch stepped in. When Johnny took over in 1977, Tennessee had not suffered a losing season since 1962. Also, at the time, teams only played a six game SEC schedule. Compare Johnny's first four years to what Butch has done:

Johnny went 4-7, 5-5-1, 7-5, and 5-6 (21-23-1 -- .467). That included one bowl appearance, a loss to Purdue in the Bluebonnet Bowl. To add to that the next four years were 8-4, 6-5-1, 9-3, and 7-4-1 (8 yr total = 51-39-2 - .559). These years included trips to the Garden State Bowl (W), Peach Bowl (L), Citrus Bowl (W), and the Sun Bowl (L).

Butch took over a dumpster fire of a program that had suffered losing seasons in 3 consecutive seasons prior and 4 of the previous 5. He has gone 5-7, 7-6, 9-4 and is presently 8-3 (29-20 -- .591). This included trips to the Gator Bowl (W) and the Outback Bowl (W).

Yet, many of the same folks who want to canonize Johnny want to fire Butch.

I think there is some inherent bias against outsiders, especially northerners.

Johnny was a Tennessee boy, star tail back, successful coach with a NC on his resume. Add to the fact that Johnny was much more fun at the post game celebrations and you just wanted to keep him around. We've always given home town folks more leeway than outsiders. Plus we've been burned by outsiders more than a couple of times.

If Butch was born and bred in Tennessee, I don't think he would get near the amount of grief that he gets now. If he were from another southern state, other than Alabama, he would get less as well. But he's from Michigan and Ohio so the level of trust will only go so far in my opinion.