Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

[McDad]

Eh. "We may not win as quickly as this other program because we're bringing in guys with so much CHARACTER!!!" is something straight out of the Dooley years on VN. I think it's just more coachspeak

You sure seem to get worked up over "coachspeak". By the way, the coach didnt say, "We may not win as quickly as this other program because we're bringing in guys with so much CHARACTER!!!". You did.

 

[GAVol]

That's a good question, KB.

Difference between building a team and building a program is the difference between Miami, SMU, Colorado and Michigan, USC and Bama. It's short term versus long term viability. Its attention to character, academics and culture and not merely attento to athletes, sports, and wins.

That's... pretty much it.

It's the difference between what Gene Chizik did and what Nick Saban did. It's purely a philosophical discussion and everybody understands that there's an expectation to win while in the process of establishing the program.

 

[GAVol]

You sure seem to get worked up over "coachspeak". By the way, the coach didnt say, "We may not win as quickly as this other program because we're bringing in guys with so much CHARACTER!!!". You did.

It never gets old watching people dissect coachspeak as if they're reading Shakespeare.

 

[BanditVol]

Why is this thread active 6 weeks later? Ridiculous.

Here is my view. Butch will be in his 4th season next year, and I would not say we would be favored to win the SEC, but there is a good chance we can and should win the East.

And everyone knows we will take a step back in 2017 given what we are losing. Which means that 2018-2019 (Years 6 and 7 of the Butch regime) are the years I would point to in which we may well be favored to win the entire SEC and/or be a playoff team.

And I don't have any problems at all if that's how it plays out. If we win the East next year that's significant progress and we will face an obvious rebuild in 2017, then be positioned for better things.

Losing Hunter Johnson hurts, but we have some other good QBs, so....:rock:

 

[NashVol11]

You sure seem to get worked up over "coachspeak". By the way, the coach didnt say, "We may not win as quickly as this other program because we're bringing in guys with so much CHARACTER!!!". You did.

I'm not worked up about it, and I'm not even criticizing Butch because I'm not sure that's what he meant. But if what you said is true, and the difference is basically "we're building a program and not a team because we care about character and culture BS when no one else does," that's eyeroll-worthy. If Coach K says something like that, eyerolls are exactly what he gets.

 

[McDad]

It never gets old watching people dissect coachspeak as if they're reading Shakespeare.

It is odd. Some claim to hate coachspeak but are drawn to it like a moth to light.

But the varying, deeply-felt opinions make this place lively.

 

[McDad]

I'm not worked up about it, and I'm not even criticizing Butch because I'm not sure that's what he meant. But if what you said is true, and the difference is basically "we're building a program and not a team because we care about character and culture BS when no one else does," that's eyeroll-worthy. If Coach K says something like that, eyerolls are exactly what he gets.

KB asked for opinion. That's wat he got. He asked for further insight into my original opinion. That's what you read.

Discaimer: The opinions of McDad do not necessarily represent the opinions of CBJ, coaches, players, the administration, the University of Tennessee, Freak, VN, moderators or others posters.

 

[ptcarter]

Hundreds of posts later, I don't even get what's slightly wrong with the comment regardless who originally said it. There's a lot of truth to it. People need to figure out the nuance between a program winning and a program being "built".

I think it's easier to picture if you substitute:

1) Dooley for Jones
and
2) Destroyed for Built

 

[NashVol11]

KB asked for opinion. That's wat he got. He asked for further insight into my original opinion. That's what you read.

Discaimer: The opinions of McDad do not necessarily represent the opinions of CBJ, coaches, players, the administration, the University of Tennessee, Freak, VN, moderators or others posters.

He asked for opinion as to what Butch meant. I'm saying I hope that's not what Butch meant, and if it is, it's pretty meaningless.

 

[McDad]

He asked for opinion as to what Butch meant. I'm saying I hope that's not what Butch meant, and if it is, it's pretty meaningless.

I agree it is meaningless. But, all of it is really. The interviews, pressers, Vol calls, ...all the words outside of practice, games, recruiting, etc are meaningless.

 

[flatiron]

Aren't there enough things to piss and moan about without making up scenarios to get pissed about in the future?

I think some folks just like to complain. Gives them something to do.

 

[KBVol]

That's... pretty much it.

It's the difference between what Gene Chizik did and what Nick Saban did. It's purely a philosophical discussion and everybody understands that there's an expectation to win while in the process of establishing the program.

Perhaps Chizik built the program nicely but just wasn't a very good head coach. I mean, didn't Malzahn step right in, win an SEC title and play for a national title his first year with the program Chizik left him?

Also, the primary question is, what the difference, what are the nuts and bolts things a coach does differently when his goal is to build a program as opposed to only building a team? For example, some have said one component is the type of player you recruit and sign....as in, you take the HS player who has 5 to play 4 over the JUCO who only has 2-3 years to play because you want stability and player development to trump the quick fix athletes. But that can't really be true here, because Jones has signed Pearson, Blair, Weatherd, Williams, Kamara on the current roster with 3-4 coming in this year.

So, I'm honestly asking the question. What are the fundamental things to be done differently when building a program vs building a team? What specific things?

 

[GAVol]

He asked for opinion as to what Butch meant. I'm saying I hope that's not what Butch meant, and if it is, it's pretty meaningless.

Frankly, I rarely even listen when the guy is interviewed anymore. He never says much of anything.

 

[butchna]

Why is this thread active 6 weeks later? Ridiculous.

Here is my view. Butch will be in his 4th season next year, and I would not say we would be favored to win the SEC, but there is a good chance we can and should win the East.

And everyone knows we will take a step back in 2017 given what we are losing. Which means that 2018-2019 (Years 6 and 7 of the Butch regime) are the years I would point to in which we may well be favored to win the entire SEC and/or be a playoff team.

And I don't have any problems at all if that's how it plays out. If we win the East next year that's significant progress and we will face an obvious rebuild in 2017, then be positioned for better things.

Losing Hunter Johnson hurts, but we have some other good QBs, so....:rock:

Barring injury, Hunter wasn't seeing the field until his redshirt junior year at the earliest...if at all. I viewed his "commitment" as a smiley face on our numbers...pure luxury.

 

[I40flyer]

Well that's a fair comparison because Jones isn't doing any better at all than Dooley. SMH

This just isn't fair at all, remember when CBJ took over the program, we'd had trouble beating a good high school team, the stadium was falling apart, ticket sales were off by 50%, even Ole Smokey ran off. Then one night a Beam of Golden light shown from above, and suddenly CBJ started fixing things-in another 4 or 5 years he'll have everything just right for a SEC championship! yep, he's worth his raise, half a million increase is far toooooo low, he's worth twice what he's getting now.:crazy:ost-4-1090547912:

 

[McDad]

Perhaps Chizik built the program nicely but just wasn't a very good head coach. I mean, didn't Malzahn step right in, win an SEC title and play for a national title his first year with the program Chizik left him?

Also, the primary question is, what the difference, what are the nuts and bolts things a coach does differently when his goal is to build a program as opposed to only building a team? For example, some have said one component is the type of player you recruit and sign....as in, you take the HS player who has 5 to play 4 over the JUCO who only has 2-3 years to play because you want stability and player development to trump the quick fix athletes. But that can't really be true here, because Jones has signed Pearson, Blair, Weatherd, Williams, Kamara on the current roster with 3-4 coming in this year.

So, I'm honestly asking the question. What are the fundamental things to be done differently when building a program vs building a team? What specific things?

Regarding taking players with 4-5 years over 2-3 years:

On Doug Mathews show, the recruiting director essentially said our (UT or coach's) preference are players who have time to develop rather than the JUCO guys. But, if JUCO is an area of need, try to get the guy with 3 years over 2. Additionally, if a great athlete is there and we need to fill the position or depth, we will take. He also was happy that we now can focus more on the high school player to develop rather than filling urgent needs with JUCOs.

 

[jakez4ut]

Here's the 3 page check up folks....in the context of the interview that was going on, the whole 6-7 years was brought up in direct response to a question or statement about having RS jr's and RS sr's on the roster. to that end, CBJ stated that it takes 6-7 years to build the kind of quality depth needed to maintain success at a high level. he DID NOT say it would take him 6-7 years to have a winning team at Tennessee. he didn' tsay it would be 6-7 years before we'd win the EAST or the SEC. now, carry on.:hi:

Exactly. It's beyond me how some expect a complete turnaround in 2-3 yrs. Even worse when guys like Hyams fan the flames with a very poor article

in today's world, these guys need the "clicks"....so i'd continue to expect headlines and links named with the intent of "clicky clicky"....

Jones: "It takes six to seven years in the SEC to really build a program."

— Dustin Dopirak (@TennesseeBeat) November 5, 2015

The above is the quote from the link at the start of this thread. Is it not accurate? I have not heard the interview and assume this is accurate quote unless someone can prove otherwise. So I suggest you should contact Dustin Dopirak from TennesseeBeat and have him take it back if you believe it's not accurate. :loco:

seriously? i suggest you go find the link, listen to the interview and form your own opinions. jeez.

I agree with all that, but isn't it more just a function of time. I would think that any coach would start paying attention to those things from day 1....unless he's an anomaly like Derek Dooley.

yes, they all do. this isn't a new concept, and CBJ didn't present it as if it was.

to all participants in this thread...raise your hand if you actually listened to the whole interview?eace2:

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Here's the 3 page check up folks....in the context of the interview that was going on, the whole 6-7 years was brought up in direct response to a question or statement about having RS jr's and RS sr's on the roster. to that end, CBJ stated that it takes 6-7 years to build the kind of quality depth needed to maintain success at a high level. he DID NOT say it would take him 6-7 years to have a winning team at Tennessee. he didn' tsay it would be 6-7 years before we'd win the EAST or the SEC. now, carry on.:hi:

Thanks for reestablishing the original context within which this thoroughly dissected remark was made. Butch was specifically talking about the time frame necessary to establish across-the-board talent and depth to the point where you are consistently competing for championships with no significant year-to-year dropoff in performance. When you have "built a program" to that extent, you have also established a level of stability and maturity in your talent base where it is possible to reinstate redshirting to a significant degree. This process is not to be confused with the question of whether it is possible to win or win big at a much earlier point in a coach's tenure. If you look at Chizik's early success or, for that matter, Majors' tenure during the mid- to late-1980s, you have examples of teams that occasionally won big but had not yet stockpiled talent and depth to the point where they virtually became self-perpetuating machines.

 

[NashVol11]

Frankly, I rarely even listen when the guy is interviewed anymore. He never says much of anything.

Agreed

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

Frankly, I rarely even listen when the guy is interviewed anymore. He never says much of anything.

I get what you are saying...but that might just be his style...whether we like it or not. The guy still has some things to prove as far as in-game coaching goes...that's a fact. This just may be the way that he is...as far as the way he speaks to us and the media.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I get what you are saying...but that might just be his style...whether we like it or not. The guy still has some things to prove as far as in-game coaching goes...that's a fact. This just may be the way that he is...as far as the way he speaks to us and the media.

My perception is, some folks haven't learned that passing judgment is a bit like stepping into drying cement with both feet. Once there, you feel rather committed, and staying there any time at all makes it more and more difficult to return to a neutral viewpoint.

Don't know why some members of VN felt so compelled to pass judgment so quickly on Butch. With things trending in the right direction, it would be very easy (and prudent) to just continue to watch and support without reaching any conclusions. *shrug* some folks just prefer to choose a side as soon as they can, i guess.

You won't be able to convince most of them otherwise, at this point. Nothing short of an SEC championship will do that, and even that won't work for some.

 

[MustafaRasta]

spot on ^^

would you like to join my Psychiatry practice?

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

My perception is, some folks haven't learned that passing judgment is a bit like stepping into drying cement with both feet. Once there, you feel rather committed, and staying there any time at all makes it more and more difficult to return to a neutral viewpoint.

That's a good point and paints a very good picture. I've seen some posters be negative about everything and some give credit where it is due. Most however, aren't that way.

Don't know why some members of VN felt so compelled to pass judgment so quickly on Butch. With things trending in the right direction, it would be very easy (and prudent) to just continue to watch and support without reaching any conclusions. *shrug* some folks just prefer to choose a side as soon as they can, i guess.

It's a loud and small community of people who are passing judgement so quickly. It's kind of like the screaming child at the dinner table when the parents act like the kid isn't even there. Naturally, the child begins yelling louder and louder. They can't see that we are trending upwards, for three years now, and the, "We are Tennessee", thing....just b/c we can say that doesn't mean we should rebound any quicker then any other team who went through the EXACT same thing we did.

I am on the fence with Butch. I see all the good and I see the mistakes he has made. He is the guy that said, "Where do I sign", when everyone else turned us down.
I would much rather have him then the guy after him on the list.

You won't be able to convince most of them otherwise, at this point. Nothing short of an SEC championship will do that, and even that won't work for some.

Even if we did win the SECCG..(I mean when we win the SECCG)....there really would be about 5-6 posters who would b!tch about something. Score, top, etc. I don't resent people for wanting better and wanting answers.....I do as well....but have some intelligence to it....and no...that is not just throwing out a bunch of skewed stats.

 

[GAVol]

I get what you are saying...but that might just be his style...whether we like it or not. The guy still has some things to prove as far as in-game coaching goes...that's a fact. This just may be the way that he is...as far as the way he speaks to us and the media.

I don't hold it against him at all. I've just learned that if it's not a post game press conference, he's not going to go off the script very often.

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

I don't hold it against him at all. I've just learned that if it's not a post game press conference, he's not going to go off the script very often.

LOL...yeah...he has a way with words doesn't he!