Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

[hohenfelsvol]

You can trash him all you want for his coaching mistakes this year. I don't really care. He deserves all the criticism in the world for the games that got thrown away this year.

But at least pick something WORTHWHILE. This is just a waste of energy.

It is statements like these that magnify the mistakes. He needs to be aware of what he says and how it will be interpreted. Not sure why you aren't getting that.

 

[dingyibvs]

So Muschamp had 3 straight losing seasons and recruited no OL in 2012?

Your Butch hate is pathetically asinine.

UF was 11-13 the 2 years prior to CJM's arrival, UT was 10-14. BTW, Florida recruited 2 OL in 2012, and they're no longer with the team. Florida also lost 4 OL to the draft last year, and the top returning OL was found to have a congenital spinal condition that precluded him from ever playing football again.

 

[YankeeVol]

He won't get that long without winning games.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

If i said before the season Florida would have double digit wins, people would have wanted the name of my dealer so they could get their hands on the good stuff

And yet, DAJ had it right when so much of the world was getting it wrong. He said Florida still had dangerous levels of talent, and should compete with the best of them. Lo and behold, they did and they are.

That should reinforce for all of us the validity of DAJ's methods.

So when he says 5 out of every 6 coaches could win with what Florida actually had, maybe we ought to pay attention.

 

[emzeeee]

It is statements like these that magnify the mistakes. He needs to be aware of what he says and how it will be interpreted. Not sure why you aren't getting that.

Except it's not a mistake to say that rebuilding a program takes 6-7 years. Everyone here is just jumping on thinking that means winning games and it doesn't.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

Except it's not a mistake to say that rebuilding a program takes 6-7 years. Everyone here is just jumping on thinking that means winning games and it doesn't.

He may take six years which makes him look second rate when others have done it in far less. That's the rub.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

With Dooley, the Doolaid drinkers defended him to the death with the same statements you hear today defending Butch. We are young, injuries killing us, let him get his classes in here, we are seeing improvement everywhere but the W/L, etc.

Butch has been here almost 3 years. This year was better than last, but nowhere near what it could/should have been...even with all the excuses--injuries/youth/lack of depth.
Year 4 is the line in the sand. There won't be a year 5, 6, or 7 if next year isn't dramatically better.

 

[emzeeee]

He may take six years which makes him look second rate when others have done it in far less. That's the rub.

Six years to what? Win games? He's winning more each year. This year he should go 8-4. Next year we should be contending for the SEC.

That was the common projection for the team, or are we all going to forget that in order to keep the **** talk train rolling.

It's like speaking to brick walls when you say that TENNESSEE IS NOT AND WAS NOT GOOD LIKE THEY WERE IN THE "GLORY DAYS". Get over it. "We're Tennessee" means jack diddly and has meant jack diddly for 10 years. It's not a magic light switch that you flip.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Florida fans are a lot happier with Coach Mac than UT fans are happy with Coach Jones

 

[butchna]

With Dooley, the Doolaid drinkers defended him to the death with the same statements you hear today defending Butch. We are young, injuries killing us, let him get his classes in here, we are seeing improvement everywhere but the W/L, etc.

Butch has been here almost 3 years. This year was better than last, but nowhere near what it could/should have been...even with all the excuses--injuries/youth/lack of depth.
Year 4 is the line in the sand. There won't be a year 5, 6, or 7 if next year isn't dramatically better.

Oh? You're going to fire him?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Florida fans are a lot happier with Coach Mac than UT fans are happy with Coach Jones

Well, one team is 7-1 and the other is 4-4 right now.

Could have something to do with it.

 

[jbr82]

Fulmer didn't have to rebuild he inherited a loaded roster. Florida didn't need a complete rebuild like we did. McElwain inherited a loaded defense and thats what he's winning with. Coming out of the Kiffin/Dooley era 4-5 years before being able to match up against the top SEC teams us not unreasonable for Tennessee. If we had the in state recruits like Georgia and Florida have then 3 years would be reasonable.

Btw, having Ray Goff at Georgia, Sparky Woods and Brad Scott at USC jr., Ken Hatfield and Tommy West at Clemson made recruiting almost to easy for Fulmer. He owned South Carolina and took the the top talent from North Georgia most years.

Fl scored 28 against us and lsu. Cjm has gotten the most out of those young bucks on offense. I believe CBJ would have been incapable with that offense.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

I won't have to fire Butch, as I am going to choose to believe that next year's team will finally live up to and EXCEED expectations. Also, according to some, he is leaving after this year anyway.

 

[BeecherVol]

And yet, DAJ had it right when so much of the world was getting it wrong. He said Florida still had dangerous levels of talent, and should compete with the best of them. Lo and behold, they did and they are.

That should reinforce for all of us the validity of DAJ's methods.

So when he says 5 out of every 6 coaches could win with what Florida actually had, maybe we ought to pay attention.

But we also know (for a fact) that 2 of their last 4 couldn't with those "dangerous levels".

 

[emzeeee]

I won't have to fire Butch, as I am going to choose to believe that next year's team will finally live up to and EXCEED expectations. Also, according to some, he is leaving after this year anyway.

According to like, 3 people and an empty handle of Jack Daniels maybe.

 

[ReaderVol]

Checkmate. :good!:

Most here aren't smart enough to understand what you mean. Much less understand what you reference.

 

[thebjd]

With Dooley, the Doolaid drinkers defended him to the death with the same statements you hear today defending Butch. We are young, injuries killing us, let him get his classes in here, we are seeing improvement everywhere but the W/L, etc.

Butch has been here almost 3 years. This year was better than last, but nowhere near what it could/should have been...even with all the excuses--injuries/youth/lack of depth.
Year 4 is the line in the sand. There won't be a year 5, 6, or 7 if next year isn't dramatically better.

Butch shouldn't have made that statement but he is miles ahead of Dools

 

[hohenfelsvol]

Six years to what? Win games? He's winning more each year. This year he should go 8-4. Next year we should be contending for the SEC.

That was the common projection for the team, or are we all going to forget that in order to keep the **** talk train rolling.

It's like speaking to brick walls when you say that TENNESSEE IS NOT AND WAS NOT GOOD LIKE THEY WERE IN THE "GLORY DAYS". Get over it. "We're Tennessee" means jack diddly and has meant jack diddly for 10 years. It's not a magic light switch that you flip.

You're not getting the point. That's ok.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

But we also know (for a fact) that 2 of their last 4 couldn't with those "dangerous levels".

Sure, and neither could Dooley. But that doesn't mean DAJ is wrong about his 100 of 120 statement. His statistics back him up. He's just saying there are about 20 Dooleys and Zooks out there right now.

 

[e-VOL-ution2013]

It is statements like these that magnify the mistakes. He needs to be aware of what he says and how it will be interpreted. Not sure why you aren't getting that.

The truth is no matter how he words something there will be people who interpret it however they want. Just as in this case here.

 

[jasonvol18]

Really? How are people so blind to how bad a spot TN was in from 08-13 and into now?

Jesus Christ. It's like you all froze time in the late 90s and early 2000s.

Calm down Nancy. I never said Butch walked into the best situation. But no worse situation than Ole Miss, A'M and Candy had. Yet Freeze,Franklin and Sumlin were competitive before 6-7 years and Freeze and Sumlin both beat Saban by year 3. I'm not saying we should be fighting for a playoff spot but lack of talent wasn't why we lost the games we have this year. You don't lose the games we have this year with the way we lost them if we weren't a really good team and have talent to be better than 4-4. All Butch is doing is trying to calm expectations and setting up an excuse if we continue losing to teams we have been and in ways we lost them. Talent and depth wasn't why we lost to OU and UF and nobody inside or outside of the programs believes that. And I can't recall many or any coach's using the 6-7 year card. Because nobody believes that and no coach is going to get that long in this day and time. And I love Butch and want more than anybody for him to succeed and be here for years and years. But I guarantee he doesn't even believe it takes that long and had no business even saying that. All it does was set him up for criticism and make it look like another excuse.

 

[BeecherVol]

Sure, and neither could Dooley. But that doesn't mean DAJ is wrong about his 100 of 120 statement. His statistics back him up. He's just saying there are about 20 Dooleys and Zooks out there right now.

Id rather look at what coaches that have actually coached there under those conditions have done. You'll get a true gauge that way.

Im curious, if 100 coaches could have UF at 7-1 right now, could all 120 of them have UT at 4-4?

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Sure, and neither could Dooley. But that doesn't mean DAJ is wrong about his 100 of 120 statement. His statistics back him up. He's just saying there are about 20 Dooleys and Zooks out there right now.

Common sense says he's dead wrong.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

The truth is no matter how he words something there will be people who interpret it however they want. Just as in this case here.

Well, this is one criticism of him that I would agree is absolutely valid. He doesn't think through (wargame, murder board, etc.) how his statements might be interpreted or misinterpreted.

Someone smart once said that when you're in a position of leadership and great responsibility, it is not enough to merely speak so that you can be understood. You must communicate so that you can NOT easily be MISunderstood.

Butch doesn't put enough effort into the latter sometimes. This is one of those times, I think.

Don't know how much time he had to give forethought to this point he made during Vol Calls, whether it was a spur-of-the-moment response to a question or a talking point he knew in advance he wanted to work in. If it was the former, meh, it's understandable that he gave a answer that could easily be misinterpreted. If the latter, then he was wrong not to think it through better than he did.

That's about the only valid criticism you can level on the guy from this whole matter. Aside from that, he's getting a lot of undeserved grief from folks who are just looking for opportunities to put him down.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Id rather look at what coaches that have actually coached there under those conditions have done. You'll get a true gauge that way.

Im curious, if 100 coaches could have UF at 7-1 right now, could all 120 of them have UT at 4-4?

I don't know. You'd have to ask DAJ. He's the one who can get into details about which programs are (given talent levels based on past recruiting classes) expected to win what % of their games in any given season, and which coaches have a track record of significantly exceeding or underperforming. Match those two sets of stats together, and you get McElwain + 100 others. So don't know how it would come out for Tennessee and all those others.

I think DAJ was predicting 7.5 wins for Tennessee this year, iirc. So if we finish the regular season at 8-4 as most expect, we're looking for coaches who neither greatly exceed nor greatly underperform expectations based on talent. I suspect that's the 100 of 120 body that matches Florida's situation now as well.

But ask DAJ, he'll be able to give the definitive response.