Butch lovers-hoping for the near impossible

#26
#26
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
My argument is more that Dabo took over a bad program and had them winning (by year 3-4). Yes, overall there is not much similarity, but Dabo took over a dumpster fire and turned it around.
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Clemson sucks! Sorry, had to say it. Now I feel better.
 
#30
#30
PowerSweep said:
Let's do a thought experiment, shall we? Does it ever take 5 yrs or more to be winning at a high level at a historical top 15 (UT is 9-12 depending on how you rank the Fla schools imo) program like Tennessee?

Some of you think it does. If so, then we would see a lot of coaches who took over similar programs, had a successful tenure, but WERE NOT winning at a high level by yr 3 or 4 much less year 5. I am telling you that what you are hoping for and believe in almost never happens.

It is possible that I am missing some examples but I can only think of one coach in the last 40-50 yrs that would fit this criteria, and his inclusion is arguable...Johnny Majors. On the other side are a big pile of coaches that were failures.

There have been dozens of coaches that have been successful at top 15 historical programs in the last 40-50 yrs..if I am wrong about the premise that if a coach is going to be a success he is always or almost always no matter the circumstances winning big by yr 3 or 4, then show me some examples of coaches that:

1) took over historical top 15 program(like butch)
2) were NOT winning big by yr 3 or 4(like butch)
3) ultimately had a tenure that would be judged as successful
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It took Frank Beamer 8 years to get to the similar record. He was pretty consistent after that too.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/frank-beamer-1.html

and Mack Brown 6 years at UNC
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mack-brown-1.html
 
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#33
#33
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
My argument is more that Dabo took over a bad program and had them winning (by year 3-4). Yes, overall there is not much similarity, but Dabo took over a dumpster fire and turned it around.
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Oh i agree with you 100percent. That is if your point is that turning a program includes winning a championship of some kind be it division ,conference or the big NC. Jones has done none of those. He cant even consistently beat our best east division rivals when he has better talent . Jones is a good recruiter and not a good coach . His teams rarely show up game day ready to play from the first blow of the whistle . The truth is we are lucky in most games if a Jones coached team shows up for a full half of football. Most of the time its only for a quarter. That is coaching !!! We have a very talented team they just need a head coach that can get it done . One final point is that we have had a complete change over on the coaching staff . The only guy left is Thig and of course Jones yet year after year we see alot of the same shortcomings when its game day.
 
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#38
#38
Vol_fan_in_Tampa said:
It took Frank Beamer 8 years to get to the similar record. He was pretty consistent after that too.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/frank-beamer-1.html

and Mack Brown 6 years at UNC
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mack-brown-1.html
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This aint Virginia Tech!!! this is TENNESSEE and dont ever compare us with VT . WE are to be compared with Alabama, Georgia, USC, and other big time programs thats been there and been doing it for many years . That is how we should view our selfs and not with VT. We have won alot of games and conference championships and i will not lower my expectations just to suit this narrative of Jones . If he cant get it done he needs to get gone!
 
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#39
#39
jbr82 said:
Other examples:

Saban at LSU
Carroll at USC
Stoops at Oklahoma
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All 3 had it going pretty well by year 2.

The one thing I'm trying to think of is what top 15 program has ever gone through a stretch like we just came out of? We literally just went 9 years between 8 win season and had 4 or 5 losing seasons in the past dozen.
 
#40
#40
JoAllan said:
All anyone needs to know is 2016.

We all know there was a ton of injuries; however did those really cause us to loose 4 games?

In 2016 Tennessee should have only lost 1 game. Maybe the injuries cost us the A&M game.......maybe the injuries caused us to need a hail marry vs GA; however injuries did not cause us to loose to SC or Vandy. When (as a coach) you have the 2016 Vols team and finish 8-4 (in the East.......and really the East sucked last year) with losses to SC & Vandy..........(and knowing you have never delivered) you as the coach should be gone.....PERIOD.
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7 turnovers cost us the A&M game.

Hurd's fumble and teh last second score by Georgia gave cause for the hail mary.

SC saw a true freshman spelling a gassed set of running backs for a play that caused a critical fumble on the possible winning scoring drive.

Vandy saw a team with less than 2/3 of the starters out and in some cases 3rd string players in as starters.
 
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#41
#41
Didn't it take Fulmer 5 years to win the east?

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
 
#42
#42
4-1 by Saturday night-big deal, is there anyone that believes we will not win on Saturday? If so, let's get together and make a large cash bet! I appears a lot of posters forget we're part of the SEC, SEC games matter, jones does not deliver when it counts, and often when it doesn't count! Yes, we won the first two, but by pure luck. My prediction is, those that continue being jones fan boys, will not man up at the end of the season, admitting they were blinded by their love for jones, and were unable to see what he's doing to our program.
 
#44
#44
PowerSweep said:
Let's do a thought experiment, shall we? Does it ever take 5 yrs or more to be winning at a high level at a historical top 15 (UT is 9-12 depending on how you rank the Fla schools imo) program like Tennessee?

Some of you think it does. If so, then we would see a lot of coaches who took over similar programs, had a successful tenure, but WERE NOT winning at a high level by yr 3 or 4 much less year 5. I am telling you that what you are hoping for and believe in almost never happens.

It is possible that I am missing some examples but I can only think of one coach in the last 40-50 yrs that would fit this criteria, and his inclusion is arguable...Johnny Majors. On the other side are a big pile of coaches that were failures.

There have been dozens of coaches that have been successful at top 15 historical programs in the last 40-50 yrs..if I am wrong about the premise that if a coach is going to be a success he is always or almost always no matter the circumstances winning big by yr 3 or 4, then show me some examples of coaches that:

1) took over historical top 15 program(like butch)
2) were NOT winning big by yr 3 or 4(like butch)
3) ultimately had a tenure that would be judged as successful
Click to expand...

Geez here we go again with a "different spin"......
 
#46
#46
GAVol said:
All 3 had it going pretty well by year 2.

The one thing I'm trying to think of is what top 15 program has ever gone through a stretch like we just came out of? We literally just went 9 years between 8 win season and had 4 or 5 losing seasons in the past dozen.
Click to expand...

my premise is that almost no matter how bad the situation-and look at PennSt in year 4 after franklin took over the dumpster fire of all dumpster fires-when you get a coach who is gonna succeed it is like flipping a switch..carroll at usc, stoops at okla, harbaugh at mich, etc

look at usc and okla in the decade before they took over..train wrecks
 
#47
#47
BTS said:
This aint Virginia Tech!!! this is TENNESSEE and dont ever compare us with VT . WE are to be compared with Alabama, Georgia, USC, and other big time programs thats been there and been doing it for many years . That is how we should view our selfs and not with VT. We have won alot of games and conference championships and i will not lower my expectations just to suit this narrative of Jones . If he cant get it done he needs to get gone!
Click to expand...

He asked a question. I presented the example.

Go back and look at VT, they aren't much different than Georgia. USC is not looking so hot, so why would you even refer to them? They were at the top in the 2000s and are sanctioned for their actions.

Alabama is on top because of one reason. Nick Saban. There is only one of those. Look back at their records before that and you will see a steady flow of winning and less than optimal seasons. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/alabama/

Look at Michigan... They are on par with us https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan/
 
#48
#48
sechamp2012 said:
and the team he inherited was Doolyish
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james franklin inherited a great situation just like fulmer

If you are going to win at a big time football program the norm, to say the very obvious, is to be killing it VERY early in your tenure. No MATTER what the coach inherits. It is never or almost never a slow, gradual rebuild over 5-7 yrs. Period.

And it is obvious I am right by the dearth of examples to the contrary.
 
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#49
#49
Go back and look at VT, they aren't much different than Georgia

this should disqualify you from ever posting about college football again. One of the dumbest things I have ever read.
 
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#50
#50
I just don't want to be left out. I don't like Butch so could all of the Butch lovers please let me know what love punch you're drinking so I can love him too?
 
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