Butch lovers-hoping for the near impossible

[PowerSweep]

Let's do a thought experiment, shall we? Does it ever take 5 yrs or more to be winning at a high level at a historical top 15 (UT is 9-12 depending on how you rank the Fla schools imo) program like Tennessee?

Some of you think it does. If so, then we would see a lot of coaches who took over similar programs, had a successful tenure, but WERE NOT winning at a high level by yr 3 or 4 much less year 5. I am telling you that what you are hoping for and believe in almost never happens.

It is possible that I am missing some examples but I can only think of one coach in the last 40-50 yrs that would fit this criteria, and his inclusion is arguable...Johnny Majors. On the other side are a big pile of coaches that were failures.

There have been dozens of coaches that have been successful at top 15 historical programs in the last 40-50 yrs..if I am wrong about the premise that if a coach is going to be a success he is always or almost always no matter the circumstances winning big by yr 3 or 4, then show me some examples of coaches that:

1) took over historical top 15 program(like butch)
2) were NOT winning big by yr 3 or 4(like butch)
3) ultimately had a tenure that would be judged as successful

 

[Behr]

Tl;Dr.

Also lost my interest with "Butch Lovers".

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I just know this: I'm a Vols-lover, and I'm hoping for the near-impossible in the form of a 14-1 season this season for our lads.

How's that for hoping for the near-impossible despite it not being about Butch at all?

 

[yuenglinguy78]

You've got to stop whipping a dead horse sometime.

 

[JMSqb11]

Let's do a thought experiment, shall we? Does it ever take 5 yrs or more to be winning at a high level at a historical top 15 (UT is 9-12 depending on how you rank the Fla schools imo) program like Tennessee?

Some of you think it does. If so, then we would see a lot of coaches who took over similar programs, had a successful tenure, but WERE NOT winning at a high level by yr 3 or 4 much less year 5. I am telling you that what you are hoping for and believe in almost never happens.

It is possible that I am missing some examples but I can only think of one coach in the last 40-50 yrs that would fit this criteria, and his inclusion is arguable...Johnny Majors. On the other side are a big pile of coaches that were failures.

There have been dozens of coaches that have been successful at top 15 historical programs in the last 40-50 yrs..if I am wrong about the premise that if a coach is going to be a success he is always or almost always no matter the circumstances winning big by yr 3 or 4, then show me some examples of coaches that:

1) took over historical top 15 program(like butch)
2) were NOT winning big by yr 3 or 4(like butch)
3) ultimately had a tenure that would be judged as successful

People are willing to give Butch his "5-7 years to build a program" because he took this job. For some reason, they are willing to give him a break for being a nice guy who took over the rebuild job.

I think thats crazy. It's year 5.

 

[PowerSweep]

I just know this: I'm a Vols-lover, and I'm hoping for the near-impossible in the form of a 14-1 season this season for our lads.

How's that for hoping for the near-impossible despite it not being about Butch at all?

yeah that is bad word choice because obviously I am hoping for the same thing

 

[VFL-82-JP]

yeah that is bad word choice because obviously I am hoping for the same thing

Yeah, heh. I think all true Vols fans would like that.

 

[VOL 4 Life 83]

Disclaimer: I am not a Butch apologist....

But didn't it take Dabo 4 years to win 10 games? I guess the debate in this lies in whether or not your consider Clemson a top 15-20 program

 

[Boca Vol]

Good grief. Last week is over and it can't be changed.

There's still 2 games left in Sept and it's not a far stretch that UT could be 4-1 by next Sat. night. I think most level-headed people would have accepted that back in the off-season.

Yes, there will still be 7 games left with many of those difficult ones, but let's see how it plays out before we tear Neyland down and build a skate park in its place.

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

I think it depends on your own strict criteria of "winning at a high level" , but here is an example I don't hear brought up very much.... Mack Brown

Arrived at Texas in 1998 and went
9-3
9-5
9-3
11-2

He had a better record through 4 seasons than Butch. And in his first 4 years he did go to 2 BigXII championship games, but did not win his first conference championship until 2005 (with Vince Young). So that's 8 seasons before a conference and national championship. Ultimately went on to play in another. I know he was beleaguered throughout his time in Austin, but in my opinion he went out highly successful.

 

['Boro-vol]

You've got to stop whipping a dead horse sometime.

Once the U-haul clears the county line.....or we win the SEC.

 

['Boro-vol]

Disclaimer: I am not a Butch apologist....

But didn't it take Dabo 4 years to win 10 games? I guess the debate in this lies in whether or not your consider Clemson a top 15-20 program

Yep...but I think he won the conference inside the first three years.

 

[JMSqb11]

Disclaimer: I am not a Butch apologist....

But didn't it take Dabo 4 years to win 10 games? I guess the debate in this lies in whether or not your consider Clemson a top 15-20 program

Actually Dabo won 10 games and the ACC title in his third year.

In 09- his first class was ranked 36
in 10- his second class was ranked 27
in 11 (10-3 Season/ACC Champs)- his class ranked 10.

So he technically won the ACC in 3 years with weak recruiting classes.....

Him and Butch are nothing alike.

 

[VOL 4 Life 83]

Yep...but I think he won the conference inside the first three years.

He won the Atlantic division (9-5) but lost in the ACC championship game if I remember. Also, this was his first full year as head coach, as he took over half way through the 2008 season when they went 4-8.

So yes, in his third FULL year as head coach he won a conference championship.

 

[BTS]

Disclaimer: I am not a Butch apologist....

But didn't it take Dabo 4 years to win 10 games? I guess the debate in this lies in whether or not your consider Clemson a top 15-20 program

I have seen this going on with comparing Jones with Dobo. I have to point out that Dabo won 9 games in his 2nd year and yes he did win 10 in his 4th year. Take it for what ever you want but Jones hasn't won 10 games yet. So for me it does very little for Jones using the Dabo argument.

 

[turdherder11]

Butch's best chance was last year. Uf at home, uga with a 1st year coach, vandy ky should have been easy wins no matter what, and uscjr with a 1st year coach. He failed last year due to bad off-season decisions and a lack of development after the injuries. We were loaded last season. Its time

 

[PowerSweep]

I think it depends on your own strict criteria of "winning at a high level" , but here is an example I don't hear brought up very much.... Mack Brown

Arrived at Texas in 1998 and went
9-3
9-5
9-3
11-2

He had a better record through 4 seasons than Butch. And in his first 4 years he did go to 2 BigXII championship games, but did not win his first conference championship until 2005 (with Vince Young). So that's 8 seasons before a conference and national championship. Ultimately went on to play in another. I know he was beleaguered throughout his time in Austin, but in my opinion he went out highly successful.

not a bad example but he had a top 10 team yr 4, won 11 games..we aren't anywhere close to that

 

[JoAllan]

All anyone needs to know is 2016.

We all know there was a ton of injuries; however did those really cause us to loose 4 games?

In 2016 Tennessee should have only lost 1 game. Maybe the injuries cost us the A&M game.......maybe the injuries caused us to need a hail marry vs GA; however injuries did not cause us to loose to SC or Vandy. When (as a coach) you have the 2016 Vols team and finish 8-4 (in the East.......and really the East sucked last year) with losses to SC & Vandy..........(and knowing you have never delivered) you as the coach should be gone.....PERIOD.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I just know this: I'm a Vols-lover, and I'm hoping for the near-impossible in the form of a 14-1 season this season for our lads.

How's that for hoping for the near-impossible despite it not being about Butch at all?

This is the correct response. All other is for bored people.

 

[GAVol]

Let's do a thought experiment, shall we? Does it ever take 5 yrs or more to be winning at a high level at a historical top 15 (UT is 9-12 depending on how you rank the Fla schools imo) program like Tennessee?

Some of you think it does. If so, then we would see a lot of coaches who took over similar programs, had a successful tenure, but WERE NOT winning at a high level by yr 3 or 4 much less year 5. I am telling you that what you are hoping for and believe in almost never happens.

It is possible that I am missing some examples but I can only think of one coach in the last 40-50 yrs that would fit this criteria, and his inclusion is arguable...Johnny Majors. On the other side are a big pile of coaches that were failures.

There have been dozens of coaches that have been successful at top 15 historical programs in the last 40-50 yrs..if I am wrong about the premise that if a coach is going to be a success he is always or almost always no matter the circumstances winning big by yr 3 or 4, then show me some examples of coaches that:

1) took over historical top 15 program(like butch)
2) were NOT winning big by yr 3 or 4(like butch)
3) ultimately had a tenure that would be judged as successful

Ever hear of a man named Johnny Majors.

 

[sechamp2012]

we have won 9+ games since modern era (integrated1967 to 2016) 24 times 2 of those 2015 &16.

from (1967 to 2012 45 years) we have won 9+ 22 times is equal to 48% of time we win 9 or more.


from 2012 to 2016 (4 years) we have won 9+ 2 times equal to 50% of time we win 9+

it may be who we are' hope it gets better.

we have won 13 games 1 time
we have never won 12 games
we have won 11 games 7 times 5 in modern era
we have won 10 games 12 times 8 in modern era

 

[BTS]

Didn't Jones decide to get rid of the strength coach ? Wow that was a great decision and probably had some contribution to all the injuries last year and probably set the program back a year in development. Very good decision on Jones part dont ya think

 

[VOL 4 Life 83]

I have seen this going on with comparing Jones with Dobo. I have to point out that Dabo won 9 games in his 2nd year and yes he did win 10 in his 4th year. Take it for what ever you want but Jones hasn't won 10 games yet. So for me it does very little for Jones using the Dabo argument.

My argument is more that Dabo took over a bad program and had them winning (by year 3-4). Yes, overall there is not much similarity, but Dabo took over a dumpster fire and turned it around.

 

[zydane47]

Ever hear of a man named Johnny Majors.

You can't compare Jones to Majors.

Majors had at least accomplished a NC at Pitt before coming here, Jones has no such accolades in his coaching background.

Hence why Majors was given a longer leash.

 

[tallvolball98]

Let's do a thought experiment, shall we? Does it ever take 5 yrs or more to be winning at a high level at a historical top 15 (UT is 9-12 depending on how you rank the Fla schools imo) program like Tennessee?

Some of you think it does. If so, then we would see a lot of coaches who took over similar programs, had a successful tenure, but WERE NOT winning at a high level by yr 3 or 4 much less year 5. I am telling you that what you are hoping for and believe in almost never happens.

It is possible that I am missing some examples but I can only think of one coach in the last 40-50 yrs that would fit this criteria, and his inclusion is arguable...Johnny Majors. On the other side are a big pile of coaches that were failures.

There have been dozens of coaches that have been successful at top 15 historical programs in the last 40-50 yrs..if I am wrong about the premise that if a coach is going to be a success he is always or almost always no matter the circumstances winning big by yr 3 or 4, then show me some examples of coaches that:

1) took over historical top 15 program(like butch)
2) were NOT winning big by yr 3 or 4(like butch)
3) ultimately had a tenure that would be judged as successful

Fulmer