Butch Jones

#202
#202
20
The Original Fade said:
Say what you want, but I just watched UT highlights from 2013-2017 on YouTube, and my takeaway was that any one of Butch’s Vol teams would beat this current team by 4 TDs

My other takeaway was that Dobbs might be one of the best QBs we’ve had since Manning. I should’ve appreciated him more.

Thoughts?
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2016 Butch beat Florida and Georgia and loses to SC and Kentucky to blow the East! Started his downfall!
 
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#204
#204
landscapingvol said:
In Butch’s best seasons his defenses outperformed Pruitt’s best season
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No, Jones’ best defense ranked 36th in Total Defense. His last two, after the entire roster was recruited/developed by him, were ranked 81st and 95th, and starting to look like punching bags.

In his second year at UT, Pruitt’s Total Defense ranked 23rd. That D generally didn’t give up big plays (although long pass in last minute vs BYU was a killer), got QB pressure, and fit run gaps the best since at least Justin Wilcox. And it had a bunch of Frosh/Soph making plays.
 
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#206
#206
landscapingvol said:
So Jones gets no credit for developing a three star qb with limited offers into a good qb but Pruitt gets no blame for not be able to turn any qb into a serviceable one? Makes sense, and Worley was also better than any qb we have on the roster. He was also a three star qb.
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Jones did a horrible job developing Dobbs. Dobbs was naturally gifted as an athlete, with uncommon mental aptitude for a football player, and even had to seek outside help to better himself as a thrower.
 
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#207
#207
landscapingvol said:
I hope you aren’t a lawyer. Jones developed Dobbs and recruited him. He also developed Worley into a serviceable qb, who by the way he inherited not recruited. Pruitt hasn’t inherited or recruited a qb into being serviceable by the end of his third full season. This isn’t the NFL, Jones didn’t pick up Dobbs through free agency. He developed him
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Worley got worse as his career progressed. The Florida and Ole Miss games in 2014 were absolutely some of the worst QB play we'd had in the decade up to that point.
 
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#208
#208
landscapingvol said:
Dobbs had over 121 pass attempts in 2013, Worley had 196. The stats don’t really fit your narrative. In 2014, Dobbs had 177 attempts compared to Worley’s 252. Worley threw for over 2.5k yards and 25 td’s in those two split seasons compared to Dobbs’ 11 passing td’s. Dobbs had also thrown 12 interceptions in far fewer pass attempts compared to Worley’s 16. Dobbs eventually became the better qb but it wasn’t nearly as cut and dried as you are making it
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About a third of those 121 attempts were in the Missouri game, which was one of the most inexplicable game plans I've seen to date. Worse than any this year. Lets take our injured true freshman dual threat QB on the road and completely ignore his skill set and one of our best offensive players and ask him to throw 42 times. That'll do.
 
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#209
#209
I love Eric Gray and his potential, but he's not yet even a better back than John Kelly, much less Kamara or Hurd.

Butch recruited like LSU or Georgia and underperformed. Pruitt recruits like Miami or USC and underperforms. Also, the East from 2014-2016 was a joke compared to what it is now. Everybody was bad, even Florida was bad when they won the East in 15 and 16. Now UGA and Florida are elite or thereabouts, and Kentucky is stronger than they've ever been in modern football. Butch's 2015 team would beat Pruitt's 2019 team, but switch the staffs and it'd be a bloodbath.
 
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#210
#210
VolsSince78 said:
No, Jones’ best defense ranked 36th in Total Defense. His last two, after the entire roster was recruited/developed by him, were ranked 81st and 95th, and starting to look like punching bags.

In his second year at UT, Pruitt’s Total Defense ranked 23rd. That D generally didn’t give up big plays (although long pass in last minute vs BYU was a killer), got QB pressure, and fit run gaps the best since at least Justin Wilcox. And it had a bunch of Frosh/Soph making plays.
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Umm that is simply not true. The only defensive measurement that matters is points allowed, yards are irrelevant in today’s offenses. The 2015 Tennessee team which played a much tougher schedule allowed 21.2 points per game or 25th in the nation. The 2019 Tennessee team allowed 21.7 points per game or 29th in the nation per ESPN NCAA stats.
 
#211
#211
landscapingvol said:
Umm that is simply not true. The only defensive measurement that matters is points allowed, yards are irrelevant in today’s offenses. The 2015 Tennessee team which played a much tougher schedule allowed 21.2 points per game or 25th in the nation. The 2019 Tennessee team allowed 21.7 points per game or 29th in the nation per ESPN NCAA stats.
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Obviously that's #1 but not the only one. Let's say you have 2 defenses that both give up 21 per game. Is it better to have a defense that gives up tons of yards but leads the nation in red zone takeaways, or one that stuffs the opponent for 3 and outs inside their own 20 more than anyone else? Field position for your offense matters too.
 
#212
#212
ptclaus98 said:
I love Eric Gray and his potential, but he's not yet even a better back than John Kelly, much less Kamara or Hurd.

Butch recruited like LSU or Georgia and underperformed. Pruitt recruits like Miami or USC and underperforms. Also, the East from 2014-2016 was a joke compared to what it is now. Everybody was bad, even Florida was bad when they won the East in 15 and 16. Now UGA and Florida are elite or thereabouts, and Kentucky is stronger than they've ever been in modern football. Butch's 2015 team would beat Pruitt's 2019 team, but switch the staffs and it'd be a bloodbath.
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Pruitt would still managed to screw it up.
 
#213
#213
landscapingvol said:
So Jones gets no credit for developing a three star qb with limited offers into a good qb but Pruitt gets no blame for not be able to turn any qb into a serviceable one? Makes sense, and Worley was also better than any qb we have on the roster. He was also a three star qb.
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Dobbs did most of his damage with his mind. He is a rocket scientist. Dobbs was smarter than Butch's entire staff. Butch gets no credit for Dobb's intelligence. I don't believe Worley is better than Bailey. Butch does get credit for leaving us JG. Incase you forgot JG was your boy Butch's QB. But, thanks for helping me make my point. I do agree with you we should have been able to develop a QB better than JG. That job is the QB coaches task. I have said many times Weinke needs to go. I expect that will happen when his contract expires.
 
#214
#214
Tarkus said:
Not as bad as continuing to start JG over anyone else on the roster.
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You're both spot on. The real winner in that deal was Kamara, who realized his potential at the next level. Had he been the starter he would have had many more miles on him. I often felt sorry for Hurd watching him get the hell beat out if him game after game.
 
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#215
#215
Vol524 said:
Dobbs did most of his damage with his mind. He is a rocket scientist. Dobbs was smarter than Butch's entire staff. Butch gets no credit for Dobb's intelligence. I don't believe Worley is better than Bailey. Butch does get credit for leaving us JG. Incase you forgot JG was your boy Butch's QB. But, thanks for helping me make my point. I do agree with you we should have been able to develop a QB better than JG. That job is the QB coaches task. I have said many times Weinke needs to go. I expect that will happen when his contract expires.
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Butch is not my boy, Dobbs was three star with a few late offers. He was not some can’t miss prospect. By the way, Worley improved under Jones as well. A qb he did not recruit:
2013: 1239 yards 55.6% 10 TD 8 Int
2014: 1579 yards 62.3% 12 TD 8 Int
Who knew we were in our glory days of coaching under CBJ compared to RC Cola? Worley was also a three star with limited offers
 
#216
#216
The Original Fade said:
Say what you want, but I just watched UT highlights from 2013-2017 on YouTube, and my takeaway was that any one of Butch’s Vol teams would beat this current team by 4 TDs

My other takeaway was that Dobbs might be one of the best QBs we’ve had since Manning. I should’ve appreciated him more.

Thoughts?
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Tee Martin was much better than Manning or Dobbs. Go back and watch the UT vs South Carolina game Tee's Senior year. Like a pitcher throwing a no hitter and not throwing the ball but three times per batter...that would be the equivalent of Tee's game that afternoon.
 
#218
#218
VolsFan-TX said:
Didn’t Butch pass on Trevor Lawrence due to him not fitting his system? Lawrence grew up a TN fan and wanted to sign with the Vols. Without Dobbs, Jones would not have lasted as long as he did in Knoxville.

Regarding the running backs, he also kept Kamara on the bench in favor of Hurd.
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Dude Hurd was a pretty amazing back as well. He would've been statistically the best RB in TN history had things not gone south.
 
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#219
#219
The Original Fade said:
Say what you want, but I just watched UT highlights from 2013-2017 on YouTube, and my takeaway was that any one of Butch’s Vol teams would beat this current team by 4 TDs

My other takeaway was that Dobbs might be one of the best QBs we’ve had since Manning. I should’ve appreciated him more.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

1. the 2016 team would beat the hell out of the current team
2. Dobbs might have been decent but those teams were JUNK except for the very brief period between the end of 2015 and the middle of 2016
3. Doobs looked better than he was because of the plays designed for him. He also had legs and many of his big plays were running away from the defense because the OL completely collapsed
4. Dobbs was the best QB we've had since Ainge
5. number 4 is a sad sad statement
 
#220
#220
The one thing I don't understand about either Jones or Pruitt is their micromanagement.

For example, Spurrier (especially at Florida) ran the offense and hired a strong individual to run the defense and was very successful (at least in college).

Jones had his ideas and schemes regarding offense, yet he kept meddling with Bob Shoop's defense. Pruitt has a strong reputation as a DC, yet he doesn't seem to trust Cheney, another coordinator with a proven track record. Why hire quality coordinators if you won't let them do their job?
 
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#221
#221
TommyJoe said:
Tee Martin was much better than Manning or Dobbs. Go back and watch the UT vs South Carolina game Tee's Senior year. Like a pitcher throwing a no hitter and not throwing the ball but three times per batter...that would be the equivalent of Tee's game that afternoon.
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Are you drunk? Which one had the best Pro career? Tee couldn't carry Peyton's water bottle when it comes to total skill set of a QB. Tee was much more mobile but that is not the first task for a QB. That is unless you are the QB at KY.
 
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#224
#224
Those of you who think Pruitt is a better football x and o’s coach, who has he developed on the defensive side of the ball that has exceeded their expectations as a recruit. For example, Henry T was a 5* recruit with offers from every major school and he has performed well but has he performed at an elite level? I would say no especially in pass coverage. Bryce Thompson was a 4* recruit with several major offers. He has performed well but has he performed at a consistent high level in pass coverage? I would say yes for the most part. Where are the Cam Sutton’s Jalen Reeves Maybin’s, Rashaan Gaulden’s, and Derek Barnett’s? I keep hearing how elite Pruitt is at developing players but outside of a couple on defense there are very few draft picks on this team
 
#225
#225
landscapingvol said:
Those of you who think Pruitt is a better football x and o’s coach, who has he developed on the defensive side of the ball that has exceeded their expectations as a recruit. For example, Henry T was a 5* recruit with offers from every major school and he has performed well but has he performed at an elite level? I would say no especially in pass coverage. Bryce Thompson was a 4* recruit with several major offers. He has performed well but has he performed at a consistent high level in pass coverage? I would say yes for the most part. Where are the Cam Sutton’s Jalen Reeves Maybin’s, Rashaan Gaulden’s, and Derek Barnett’s? I keep hearing how elite Pruitt is at developing players but outside of a couple on defense there are very few draft picks on this team
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They are waiting for their rookie season in the NFL.......if they get there.
 
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