Butch Jones vs Charlie Strong

#51
#51
08Vol said:
I have a feeling a lot of people will get off of Butch's nuts about recruiting when he signs his next class. He's propped up the ranking with exceptionally large signing classes. This next class will drop down to the mid teens, around where his other classes have ranked if you look at star average instead of overall
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CBJ's recruiting reputation (on paper) has also benefited from an abnormally high number of legacy recruits.
 
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#52
#52
flatiron said:
Aren't most of the rankings based on the first 20 commitments, therefore weakening the "class size" argument?
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You're right, 08Vol has no idea what he's talking about. 20 commit limit on Rivals. 25 commit limit on Scout. ESPN has not revealed their formula but has said that larger classes do not equal higher rankings. No limit on 247, but due to the Composite taking into account Rivals, Scout, and ESPN, the limit is built in. :hi:
 
#53
#53
fade route said:
OP, what's your point exactly? That Butch critics should sit down and be quiet because he's done a better job than Strong and we should all be so thankful?
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If you can't figure out his point maybe you should post less.

You'll look smarter just by staying quiet.
 
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#54
#54
KBVol said:
Uhhhh.....Bielema is much more proven and successful in his career to date than Jones. Big 10 Bret wasn't hired at Arky for his "potential"....he was hired for his .740 win %, his Top 20 finishes and his Rose Bowl appearances at Wisconsin. And right now, outside of Alabama, Arkansas is the last SEC team anybody wants to play.
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and truthfully you would have pissed in his cornflakes personally after Texas Tech and Toledo losses.

Chalking it up to not being ready for the SEC and losing track of his season goals.

You think he coached better in those 2 than Butch did against Florida and Okie?
 
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#55
#55
No way to tell who would have done what at different schools. We should just hope Butch can get us to a championship level.
 
#56
#56
08Vol said:
I have a feeling a lot of people will get off of Butch's nuts about recruiting when he signs his next class. He's propped up the ranking with exceptionally large signing classes. This next class will drop down to the mid teens, around where his other classes have ranked if you look at star average instead of overall
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You should finish your paragraph and mention that it will be ranked 10 to 15 because we cant sign as many kids like the past two years.
 
#57
#57
MustafaRasta said:
and truthfully you would have pissed in his cornflakes personally after Texas Tech and Toledo losses.

Chalking it up to not being ready for the SEC and losing track of his season goals.

You think he coached better in those 2 than Butch did against Florida and Okie?
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No, I gave the reasons why Bielema is a more successful/accomplished coach than Jones as of today. He's done more with his career, more with his teams to date. You wanna cherry pick games then fine, knock yourself out. How about that game in Neyland back on Oct 3? Who looked like the better coach that day? And for what it's worth, I'm not sure how Bielema could've possibly made more erroneous decisions to blow the Texas Tech and Toledo games than Jones did to piss away all but certain wins vs OU and Florida, but I suppose it's possible??

Finally, I cited why I believe Bielema is the more accomplished coach....you got any specific reasons why you wanna give the nod to Jones?
 
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#58
#58
MustafaRasta said:
and truthfully you would have pissed in his cornflakes personally after Texas Tech and Toledo losses.

Chalking it up to not being ready for the SEC and losing track of his season goals.

You think he coached better in those 2 than Butch did against Florida and Okie?
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Bielema has recruited close to the bottom of the pack in the SEC. Yes, those games(especially Toledo) were atrociously coached and he deserved the heat. But he's taken a team with no WR play, a mediocre QB, a depleted defense, and now they could go 8-4 in the SEC West, an SEC West where everyone is recruiting better than he has.


We're in danger, legitimate danger of going 7-5 in the SEC East where we are not only one of the top two talented teams in the conference, we were supposed to be strong at almost every position you need to be to win, and and against a division where no one had the combination of talent and experienced QB, OL and DL that we did. The closest team to that was Mizzou.


Yeah, Bret Bielema had some bad losses early, but he recovered and beat some teams that mattered. We needed a vicious and very fortunate comeback(one in which we did the same things as we did in our early season losses and were bailed out by a TD drop and one of the greatest punts I've ever seen.) You could even say that Bielema was incredibly fortunate to beat Ole Miss and you'd be correct. But they followed that up with beating the **** out of a team who still had a chance at the playoff. The LSU win is better than any win Butch has had ever.
 
#59
#59
Yes op...you found an example of a worse hire than Butch. Some other have worked out considerably better than ours. Look at freeze at ole miss, he's done great under similar circumstances. To me the best example of what should have happened was what Michigan did. Our program has continually been compared to them especially recently. They went after the biggest name they could get and paid the necessary money. And look how quickly he's turned it around. Incredible. Just makes you wonder...
 
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#60
#60
k-town_king said:
No way to tell who would have done what at different schools. We should just hope Butch can get us to a championship level.
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I certainly do. This year's overall coaching performance however has made me less hopeful, less confident that he will/can though.

And while we can't possibly know what can't be known, it's not invalid/illegitimate to compare they're respective careers. And to date, Bielema's is more accomplished pretty much any way you look at it.
 
#61
#61
Charlie Strong has been horrible at Texas. Horrible. But he's still accomplished more than Butch Jones.
 
#64
#64
KBVol said:
Uhhhh.....Bielema is much more proven and successful in his career to date than Jones. Big 10 Bret wasn't hired at Arky for his "potential"....he was hired for his .740 win %, his Top 20 finishes and his Rose Bowl appearances at Wisconsin. And right now, outside of Alabama, Arkansas is the last SEC team anybody wants to play.
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Did you read the post? Was Brett offered the Tennessee job? No he was not.
 
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#65
#65
KBVol said:
Uhhhh.....Bielema is much more proven and successful in his career to date than Jones. Big 10 Bret wasn't hired at Arky for his "potential"....he was hired for his .740 win %, his Top 20 finishes and his Rose Bowl appearances at Wisconsin. And right now, outside of Alabama, Arkansas is the last SEC team anybody wants to play.
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That and 50 cents will get you a cheap cup of coffee.... I still don't want Bert as our head coach even if butch fails here.
 
#66
#66
QuickSmurf said:
Did you read the post? Was Brett offered the Tennessee job? No he was not.
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Did you read the post I responded to?? Here it is....


"Do a little research OP. Butch all day every day. Somebody compare Butch to proven successful coaches and see how he is doing vs them rather than the likes of Strong and Bielemia. Give me something to consider, rather than unproven coaches that were hired based off of their potential to do well."


The post I responded to had ZERO to do with Bielema being offered the Tennessee or any other job. It had to do with somebody arrogantly telling another poster to "do some research", when the "research" clearly refutes his point. Fact is, to date, Bielema has a better, more impressive coaching resume......period.

What post were you talking about?? Clearly, it wasn't the one that I was.
 
#67
#67
volbeast33 said:
That and 50 cents will get you a cheap cup of coffee.... I still don't want Bert as our head coach even if butch fails here.
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Never said I wanted Bielema as Tennessee's coach. The poster I responded to said that Bielema was hired for his "potential", that he hadn't had the success that Butch has. That's categorically false. That "coffee and 50 cents" I posted (whatever the hell thats supposed to mean) simply proves, very clearly, that Bielema has put together a better, more accomplished coaching career than Jones at this point. It's not debatable.
 
#68
#68
Orange_Vol1321 said:
You should finish your paragraph and mention that it will be ranked 10 to 15 because we cant sign as many kids like the past two years.
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It's the ugly truth but it is the truth. Saban, Fisher, Richt, Miles, and Sumlin have the majority of the 5*s locked down down in the south. K-Mac has been our only consensus 5* during the Butch era. Heck McElwain brought in 2 during his first class. What's worse is our lack of development with many of our 4*s. I'll hope for the best with our coach, but fully expect a different one in 2018
 
#71
#71
ptclaus98 said:
A BCS bowl(oh btw also a win over Florida) is more than Butch Jones has ever accomplished. Period.
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Strong will not make a bowl this year BCS or otherwise. But I see your point. I was looking at what he had done at Texas. I'm biased, I just don't like the man and Butch is the coach of the team I love.
 
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#72
#72
chattavol420 said:
Yes op...you found an example of a worse hire than Butch. Some other have worked out considerably better than ours. Look at freeze at ole miss, he's done great under similar circumstances. To me the best example of what should have happened was what Michigan did. Our program has continually been compared to them especially recently. They went after the biggest name they could get and paid the necessary money. And look how quickly he's turned it around. Incredible. Just makes you wonder...
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Really hard to compare coaches from other schools to Butch Jones. Unless you are an insider, nobody really knows what shape the program is in. I mean every facet from the ground up, not just talent. Freeze is pretty good but his Ala win was very abnormal (5 Ala TOs) and he has since lost 3 games. I think Mich made a good hire, but long term I don't think Harbaugh has the personality to stay there long term. I personally don't think Tenn could have afforded to make a hire requiring much more at the time, than they paid for Jones. That is another of those inside issues that had to be improved but most don't consider. All in all we are in a wait and see whether Jones was a bad, good, or great hire.
 
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#75
#75
GAVol said:
Exactly. This isn't a "Butch is the greatest" thread. It's a "We dodged a bullet by not getting Charlie Strong" thread.
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Dale-Doe totally agrees. But Dale-Doe thinks on Saturdays, a head coach is only as good as his coordinators and assistant coaches. Dale-Doe still not sold on Debord, and Dale-Doe think we need a high profile QB coach to develop our talent at that position....
 
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