Butch Jones says TN football has made monumental steps in the program

#101
#101
sjt18 said:
I'm game. From a strictly football perspective... how much better is it?

Is the WR extraordinarily better right now than '13? No.

Is the OL as good or really even deeper by any proven measure? No.

QB play? Worley through 8 games completed 56% of his passes for 1239 yds, 10 TD's, and 8 INTs. Through 6 games, UT's duo have combined for 55% for 1112 yds,, 7 TD's, and 6 INTs.

RB? Neal and Lane combined for 1658 yds. Kelly and Chandler are on a pace for 1336.

In 2013, UT was 10th in the SEC in scoring D... they're currently 9th... and the 2013 team played Oregon who skewed that average.

In 2013, UT was 11th in total D. They're 7th now with Bama looming. Again, take Oregon's 687 yds out of the avg... and the numbers are almost identical.

In 2013, UT finished 11th in scoring O at 14 ppg. They're currently 14th at 22 ppg... and do you think UT raises that average this week?

In 2013, UT finished 12th in total O. They're currently 14th. They're unlikely to break 100 yds vs Bama unless Saban inserts his walk ons.


So what is your proof that the program is light years ahead of where it was? It DID rise for two years. But right now... it is pretty close to where it was and if Jones is given another season the next coach may start deeper in the hole than Jones did.
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Exactly, i keep saying we are worse off right now...no one wants to hear it.

I get that. They dont want that last feather plucked from Lyle's pied piper hat. His recruiting and program building prowess.

And even those that cant stand Lyle, dispute the facts, cause they want to say the cupboard is full and the roster stacked for the next coach. That a real football coach would be stepping into a prime situation, with low hanging fruit all over, just ready to be plucked.

It's just not true. We are worse off. Especially since 5 years have past, and instead of just treading water, the coach we've had has sunk the Tn brand, made a joke of it. And the program is drowning, the last vestiges of national respect circling the drain with every season, every historically bad loss, every cliche, every brick of futile failure.

The Tennessee vols either mystify analysts with our failure, or bring out the worst of derision and contempt from the football world. When a few experts have relectantly tossed out the concept of a possible vol upset over Bama, just to play devils advocate, its instantly laughed down. You have marcus spears berated our staff for bringing in decent talent and doing nothing with it, all others jordan, and the dorky guy instantly comment how "talent is not being developed at TN."

Recruiting hasn't been that great, an overrated legacy class, and attrition that saw the two 5 stars and other 4 stars leave, and with the lack of development being tossed about daily, recruiting is in freefall mode.

We are worse off today. Its obvious to most. Lyles last feather has been plucked.
 
#106
#106
MWAVolfan said:
Close. He destroyed Ole Miss in 2010 which is the last time we beat a team from the west.
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To be fair to Jones, he hasn't played a West team that badly yet. Ole Miss went 4-8 that year.

Jones has played from the West besides Alabama:

2013: Auburn (won SEC, played in BCS NC game)l
2014: Ole Miss (were 7-0 when we played them, they ended up 9-4 and made the Peach Bowl).
2015: Arkansas (ended up 8-5, but at the time looked like a bad loss and might still be).
2016: TAMU (5-0 when we played them, ended up 8-5).
 
#107
#107
VolsSportsFan said:
To be fair to Jones, he hasn't played a West team that badly yet. Ole Miss went 4-8 that year.

Jones has played from the West besides Alabama:

2013: Auburn (won SEC, played in BCS NC game)l
2014: Ole Miss (were 7-0 when we played them, they ended up 9-4 and made the Peach Bowl).
2015: Arkansas (ended up 8-5, but at the time looked like a bad loss and might still be).
2016: TAMU (5-0 when we played them, ended up 8-5).
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ARK and aTm were both games we could've/should've won. the other two, not so much.
 
#108
#108
Negan said:
What Butch actually said was -- On the state of the program: "I think we've come monumental steps from where we came." He lists "the character part of the program, academics." He said they were going to get an NCAA penalty for grades without a perfect 1000 score on the APR and they got that. They also had to understand how to win.

So looking at the context of Butch's statement he says We've come from where we came... Butch make no sense when he talks and I am sick of hearing his bull #*?%.
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He doesn't get paid $millions to talk sense. ha.

Rather, this year, he gets paid about $100k per win + about $4.1m to be sure 80 +/- guys make good grades and stay out of fights while practicing for winning those 4 games. This is the profitable way to run a football program (to hire a $4m football Coach to run the PR-campaign about good grades).
 
#110
#110
DaUndergroundMan said:
Exactly, i keep saying we are worse off right now...no one wants to hear it.

I get that. They dont want that last feather plucked from Lyle's pied piper hat. His recruiting and program building prowess.

And even those that cant stand Lyle, dispute the facts, cause they want to say the cupboard is full and the roster stacked for the next coach. That a real football coach would be stepping into a prime situation, with low hanging fruit all over, just ready to be plucked.

It's just not true. We are worse off. Especially since 5 years have past, and instead of just treading water, the coach we've had has sunk the Tn brand, made a joke of it. And the program is drowning, the last vestiges of national respect circling the drain with every season, every historically bad loss, every cliche, every brick of futile failure.

The Tennessee vols either mystify analysts with our failure, or bring out the worst of derision and contempt from the football world. When a few experts have relectantly tossed out the concept of a possible vol upset over Bama, just to play devils advocate, its instantly laughed down. You have marcus spears berated our staff for bringing in decent talent and doing nothing with it, all others jordan, and the dorky guy instantly comment how "talent is not being developed at TN."

Recruiting hasn't been that great, an overrated legacy class, and attrition that saw the two 5 stars and other 4 stars leave, and with the lack of development being tossed about daily, recruiting is in freefall mode.

We are worse off today. Its obvious to most. Lyles last feather has been plucked.
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I don't think it is worse... yet. I do think it is a situation where a quality coach could win within 3 years if they're named by December 15.

One more year... and UT stands a very good chance of asking the next coach to do more to pull the program up than it asked Jones to do.
 
#111
#111
sjt18 said:
I don't think it is worse... yet. I do think it is a situation where a quality coach could win within 3 years if they're named by December 15.

One more year... and UT stands a very good chance of asking the next coach to do more to pull the program up than it asked Jones to do.
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maybe. but i get what you're saying. i think from the standpoint of what a new coach could do in a year or two if hired in the next couple months vs. what he could do if he's hired 14 months from now could be drastic.

you get a guy in here now that maybe wins 9 or 10 games in year 1 or 2, then that momentum can sort of take care of itself for years 3-??? from a recruiting standpoint. whereas bringing a new guy in 14 months from now, it may be 3-4 years before a 9 or 10 win season is "realistic" based on the talent.

and we all know that won't be the actual expectation for the new guy. win some you're not supposed to, right????

i see zero reason to wait. but i'm not John Currie.
 
#112
#112
jakez4ut said:
maybe. but i get what you're saying. i think from the standpoint of what a new coach could do in a year or two if hired in the next couple months vs. what he could do if he's hired 14 months from now could be drastic.
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You got exactly what I was trying to say.

you get a guy in here now that maybe wins 9 or 10 games in year 1 or 2, then that momentum can sort of take care of itself for years 3-??? from a recruiting standpoint. whereas bringing a new guy in 14 months from now, it may be 3-4 years before a 9 or 10 win season is "realistic" based on the talent.
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Playing "what if"... What if Jones is kept one more year? The heat on his seat will become so intense that it begins to warm that of the AD as well. The recruiting class has already experienced de-commits. IMO, some are waiting until they see who the "new coach is". If there is no new coach then they'll definitely bolt. Those committed because of their love for UT will reconsider simply because they don't want to deal with the turmoil of being around when Jones is fired.

A few may de-commit if Jones is fired and they don't like the new hire... but if any of the names we've talked about from about Scott Frost up get the job... most will stay on board. UT cannot hire another Butch Jones/Derek Dooley level coach though. It has to be someone that pretty much everyone calls an impressive hire for some reason or another.

Regardless, keeping Jones hurts this years recruiting class. THEN... you still have to replace him after next season. The '19 class built by a lame duck coach is likely to already be weak. A new coach hired in late December essentially has 5 weeks to develop relationships, sell recruits on UT, and steal them from other programs.

The net result is that UT has two down years in recruiting instead of one or possibly even none depending on who is hired this year.

and we all know that won't be the actual expectation for the new guy. win some you're not supposed to, right????

i see zero reason to wait. but i'm not John Currie.
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I could be wrong but I don't think a new coach can make contact with recruits until after the season, right? I see no real reason to wait but it probably doesn't hurt unless you do not name the new coach in time to contact recruits before the December quiet period.
 
#113
#113
sjt18 said:
You got exactly what I was trying to say.

Playing "what if"... What if Jones is kept one more year? The heat on his seat will become so intense that it begins to warm that of the AD as well. The recruiting class has already experienced de-commits. IMO, some are waiting until they see who the "new coach is". If there is no new coach then they'll definitely bolt. Those committed because of their love for UT will reconsider simply because they don't want to deal with the turmoil of being around when Jones is fired.

A few may de-commit if Jones is fired and they don't like the new hire... but if any of the names we've talked about from about Scott Frost up get the job... most will stay on board. UT cannot hire another Butch Jones/Derek Dooley level coach though. It has to be someone that pretty much everyone calls an impressive hire for some reason or another.

Regardless, keeping Jones hurts this years recruiting class. THEN... you still have to replace him after next season. The '19 class built by a lame duck coach is likely to already be weak. A new coach hired in late December essentially has 5 weeks to develop relationships, sell recruits on UT, and steal them from other programs.

The net result is that UT has two down years in recruiting instead of one or possibly even none depending on who is hired this year.

I could be wrong but I don't think a new coach can make contact with recruits until after the season, right? I see no real reason to wait but it probably doesn't hurt unless you do not name the new coach in time to contact recruits before the December quiet period.
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i believe that's correct, but when Ohio St. hired Urban Meyer, the NCAA gave him an exemption to start/continue recruiting for that year's cycle while they finished the current season with the interim coach. if we hired someone that was available, say today, then i would expect that coach to request the same exemption.

i don't think that's a reason you hire someone available right now mind you. but if we did........
 
#114
#114
sjt18 said:
You got exactly what I was trying to say.

Playing "what if"... What if Jones is kept one more year? The heat on his seat will become so intense that it begins to warm that of the AD as well. The recruiting class has already experienced de-commits. IMO, some are waiting until they see who the "new coach is". If there is no new coach then they'll definitely bolt. Those committed because of their love for UT will reconsider simply because they don't want to deal with the turmoil of being around when Jones is fired.

A few may de-commit if Jones is fired and they don't like the new hire... but if any of the names we've talked about from about Scott Frost up get the job... most will stay on board. UT cannot hire another Butch Jones/Derek Dooley level coach though. It has to be someone that pretty much everyone calls an impressive hire for some reason or another.

Regardless, keeping Jones hurts this years recruiting class. THEN... you still have to replace him after next season. The '19 class built by a lame duck coach is likely to already be weak. A new coach hired in late December essentially has 5 weeks to develop relationships, sell recruits on UT, and steal them from other programs.

The net result is that UT has two down years in recruiting instead of one or possibly even none depending on who is hired this year.

I could be wrong but I don't think a new coach can make contact with recruits until after the season, right? I see no real reason to wait but it probably doesn't hurt unless you do not name the new coach in time to contact recruits before the December quiet period.
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i think that really depends on who it is you hire. if you're hiring someone that's currently a head coach, extremely late November, or very early December is probably the earliest you could announce it, and then you're hopeful he can get some of the kids that were planning on signing in December to go ahead and do so. and then it's all about that February signing date. let the interim coach a bowl (if we're in one)....and the new guy is full go on the off season stuff....staff and player eval and recruiting.
 
#115
#115
Could be wrong, but I don't think he's talking to press or fans, but is talking to recruits trying to be as positive as possible to hold the class together.
 
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#116
#116
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
How quickly people forget. How about the 2012 team that faced Mississippi State, Troy, Missouri, or Vandy. That defense could make Guarantano look like Jalen Hurts.

Butch Jones needs to go but come on. Trying to prop up Dooley to make Jones look worse is just plain ridiculous. In the Jones era we have

Actually beaten a team that finished in the AP top 5
Actually beaten Florida
Actually beaten Georgia twice
Finished in the AP top 25 twice
Been to and won 3 bowl games

Which of those did Dooley ever do? Butch is clearly in over his head and needs to go now, but to say that he makes a coach that never had a winning season look better is preposterous.
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had to quote this so hopefully its seen again. Butch haters saying he hasnt made progress over what he took over can go fly a kite to put it nicely
 
#117
#117
UTVOLS1614 said:
had to quote this so hopefully its seen again. Butch haters saying he hasnt made progress over what he took over can go fly a kite to put it nicely
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Ok look. What Jones does ON THE FIELD is what makes us the the joke of college football, press conferences included. Nobodys denying his off the field achievements at all, we thank him for that.

As far as him being worse than Dooley, I believe he is. Why? You take away two phenomenal athletes, leaders, game-changers, and you have what we're seeing now, a 5-7 team. They willed their team to victory. At least Dooley could score, and have a qb who looked like he practiced. And his teams could block.

People keep giving credit to Jones for his recruiting ability are also wrong imo. Ronald McDonald could recruit a top 20 class at Tennessee. I don't have to go into details about what a special place this is. I kinda feel sorry for Butch✌
 
#118
#118
Vol247 said:
Ok look. What Jones does ON THE FIELD is what makes us the the joke of college football, press conferences included. Nobodys denying his off the field achievements at all, we thank him for that.

As far as him being worse than Dooley, I believe he is. Why? You take away two phenomenal athletes, leaders, game-changers, and you have what we're seeing now, a 5-7 team. They willed their team to victory. At least Dooley could score, and have a qb who looked like he practiced. And his teams could block.

People keep giving credit to Jones for his recruiting ability are also wrong imo. Ronald McDonald could recruit a top 20 class at Tennessee. I don't have to go into details about what a special place this is. I kinda feel sorry for Butch✌
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I was there when Dooley beat Butch's Cinti team.

Maybe you're right on some points but the talent that has been recruited to play here is better besides the STARTING OL. However, Dooley left the OL cupboard pretty bare shortly thereafter due to lack of OL recruiting. This is based on ranking of the recruiting classes only - not production.

Still take Butch over Dooley any day. Bold statement, I know.
 
#120
#120
jctenn1 said:
Can the guy really believe everything he is saying..

Yes his has made a huge improvement with academics and the culture of the program..Cleaning it up he has done a great job...

But as far as winning games he has taken baby steps and has not learned how to win in 5 years....

I like the guy..He has been great at cleaning the program up but winning is what we want to see now and should be on year 5..
I really wish him all the luck at his next stop and hope he figures it out..

P.S. I really believe he is talking all this up now trying to save his job...
IT IS TOOOOO LATE....

I see some posters on here think I am hating on Butch but if you read I said I like Butch and he has put us in a better place..He just can not win the dang games..
GBO
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I don't want them making monumental steps, I want them playing winning football. Let marble masons do that.
 
#121
#121
20 years from now jones will still be remembered, his name will be known to future Vols, those that haven't even been born yet-his loss AT HOME to GA will guarantee his legacy! It took 105 years-but he did it, hopefully it takes at least that much for it to happen again, if ever. The next generation will not be jones fan-boys, they will not give 2 cents for things like, jones improved academics, but they will know he delivered our program the worst loss in living memory, as their parents will never forget it.
 
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#122
#122
67volbabygirl said:
He may think that...but this is the list I see..

Longest active streak of quarters without a TD
First shutout since 1994
Worst home loss since 1905
Allowd Vandy most points against SEC opponent since 1971
Allowed Vandy most yards (608) in the 100 year rivalry
2-2 against Vandy
10-13 in one possession games (10th best % in SEC)
0-12 against top 10 teams (giving up 40 or more points in 8 of those games)
Gave up 400+ yards in 7 2016 games (2nd worst team defense in school history)
Most yards given up on conference play in school history (2016)
Lost to South Carolina twice off a Bye week.
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Yet at the start of this season, after the UGA beat down, and even now, bUTch has his defenders -- although they are dwindling.
 
#123
#123
Is he referring to the national championship trophy being displayed under the steps. Those are monumental

Monumentally stupid display
 
#125
#125
gemlek said:
Ever notice bUTcher Jones looks like Forrest Gump on prednisone?
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I don't know. I watch that movie when a friend loaned me his copy telling me how great it was. Watched it once, and haven't seen it since.
 
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