Butch is Phil...

[PowerSweep]

lol:lol:lol:

that is a fact...you are welcome to try to prove otherwise but it is the truth..fulmer was 28-32-1 vs final ap top 20, 14-25 vs final ap top 10...not a lot of coaches in history that have coached 10+ years and done better. For sake of comparison I think Paterno coached 45 yrs or so and had 13 wins vs final ap top 10. Bryant had 16 at Bama in 25 years...these are facts.

 

[HoptownVol]

that is a fact...you are welcome to try to prove otherwise but it is the truth..fulmer was 28-32-1 vs final ap top 20, 14-25 vs final ap top 10...not a lot of coaches in history that have coached 10+ years and done better. For sake of comparison I think Paterno coached 45 yrs or so and had 13 wins vs final ap top 10. Bryant had 16 at Bama in 25 years...these are facts.

Duh! Fulmer and Butch are both morons.

 

[GreveHaller]

Duh! Fulmer and Butch are both morons.

Listen to him, folks. You cant accurately label a person a moron unless you've lived the life of a moron.

 

[KBVol]

Might want to refresh your memory of Phil's coaching in the 2001 SECCG...#2 in the nation playing #20...BCS Championship game if UT wins...there were only about 22 NFL draft picks on UT's roster...sometimes, even with superior talent, Fulmer would blow it...

Yep, keep on making the argument that a HOF, national championship winning coach who recruited, developed and put a ton of players in the NFL just sucked. You look like a genius right about now.

I'm guessing a whole helluva lot of Vols fans with some sense would gladly take a coach right now capable of winning 75% of his games and actually beat a rival every now and then....not lose more than he wins and be 0-7 vs our top rivals to date.

Still just utterly amazed that, after all the massive failure these last 7 years have brought, that our last winning coach...a HOF coach...a National Championship winning coach...still gets so much venom.

 

[KBVol]

Nothing could be further from the truth. Here is a little history lesson since there are a lot of kids on the forum who apparently need some perspective:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Southeastern_Conference_champions#Champions

Have you tried counting how many SEC titles UF won before Spurrier got there in 1990? The answer is 0 for those lazy to go through the list.
Anyhow, I still remember last live game I attended at Neyland as a student - it was the 45-3 beatdown Majors put on Spurrier in 1990. If somebody told me back than that some day we would have 11 game losing streak to them I would have told them that was as likely as watching pigs fly (or having a black president, or gays getting married, or UT fans lobbying for gray uniforms, etc) - it's a different world we live in these days.

Florida owns Tennessee TG, no offense brother. They've won 24 of the last 30....the only reason the overall series record is remotely close is because Tennessee dominated the series from the 1920s through 1974 or so when they played very sporadically. Since Bill Battle in the early 1970s, no Tennessee coach has had anywhere near even a .500 record vs Florida...Majors, Fulmer, Kiffin, Dooley and Jones are a combined 6-24 since 1976.

 

[KingGenius]

Phil for AD! Let's get someone who loves TN as much as a paycheck to make decisions.

As mentioned, no comparison. Butch won't "stumble" upon championships. His recruiting days are going to be severely hurt without big wins and big improvement.

And by improvement, I mean beating ranked teams and overall W/L record, not all this other stat bullcrap that he wants us to consider even though he freakin lost.

Stats can easily lie, when they don't make a freaking difference in the outcome!

Example:
Stat: I got a great deal on a new Lexus. It is 5000 below appraisal!
Real outcome: I am in debt 40,000 dollars and have a crappy job.

Example 2:
Stat: We beat FL in rushing yards, we put up more points than we did in last 5 years or whatever.
Real Outcome: We LOST-again, 3rd loss from Butch from a down FL team. Real stat to consider: 0-3

 

[GAVol]

Duh! Fulmer and Butch are both morons.

I don't think you want to play either of them in Jeopardy.

 

[volfanecs]

Duh! Fulmer and Butch are both morons.

Since you are so negative when it comes to the Vols, why don't you "hop" to another team? Vandy comes to mind.

 

[Wylo]

I think when Jones gets the talent level up we'll see similar results as the Fulmer years...

Just for grins, compare the Rivals ranking of UT and Florida...just looking at the starters, Florida had 16 players who were 4 or 5 stars; Tennessee had 9...the average for all 22 starters: UF = 3.9 and UT = 3.45...of course this will be changing because Butch has been signing some great talent - they are all just very young right now...and we have no 4 or 5 star OL...

And Tennessee was handicapped by having Butch and company calling the plays. You left that out of your excuses.

Tennessee won't be more highly rated than some teams it plays. Do you not get that? There won't be many teams that ever ever ever out star a Florida roster.

This was as close as it was going to be and Butch still blew it the last two years.

 

[jimallvol]

And Tennessee was handicapped by having Butch and company calling the plays. You left that out of your excuses.

Tennessee won't be more highly rated than some teams it plays. Do you not get that? There won't be many teams that ever ever ever out star a Florida roster.

This was as close as it was going to be and Butch still blew it the last two years.

I agree. The last 3 years is the worst Gator teams I've ever seen. It kinda gives you the feeling that, if Butch can't beat them with all the talent he's got right now, he never will. It's really mind boggling how TN has been their own worst enemy in this game. I remember my wife saying going into the 4th, we're finally going to break this streak. And I told her, I've got that bad feeling like me and a lot of other TN fans, that we're going to find a way to give this game away again. Then when it started, it wasn't surprising because we've seen TN do this a lot in this series. Bottom line is, we're going to have to start winning in this game every now and again before we can call it a rilvary again.

 

[GRN1926]

4th and 6, 5mins left in the game, your team is down by 7pts, you have a talented offense but a freshman QB. What do you do?

Fulmer went for it, against his nemesis. Converted and TN won the game. Fulmer was conservative but coached to win and showed that his balls had dropped. Butch and debord are a pair of pansies who coach with no guts. They're gutless and have twice embarrassed themselves and their players but coaching like little biatches.

Don't ever insult a HOF football coach again by comparing him to Butch Jones who holds a losing record at TN and can't win games that are served to him on a silver freaking platter

 

[Sarms58]

Yep, keep on making the argument that a HOF, national championship winning coach who recruited, developed and put a ton of players in the NFL just sucked. You look like a genius right about now.

I'm guessing a whole helluva lot of Vols fans with some sense would gladly take a coach right now capable of winning 75% of his games and actually beat a rival every now and then....not lose more than he wins and be 0-7 vs our top rivals to date.

Still just utterly amazed that, after all the massive failure these last 7 years have brought, that our last winning coach...a HOF coach...a National Championship winning coach...still gets so much venom.

I'd love a coach who could win 75%...I just don't think Fulmer would do that in the current SEC. He has losing record against Richt, Spurrier, Saban, Meyer and Miles.

The point of my original post is that I believe Butch's greatest strength is his recruiting - not game day coaching. And I think that goes for Phil as well. His greatest assert was his ability to put more talent on the field.

 

[Sarms58]

And Tennessee was handicapped by having Butch and company calling the plays. You left that out of your excuses.

Tennessee won't be more highly rated than some teams it plays. Do you not get that? There won't be many teams that ever ever ever out star a Florida roster.

This was as close as it was going to be and Butch still blew it the last two years.

Excuses? Tennessee played s more talented team on the road and lost.

 

[Sarms58]

4th and 6, 5mins left in the game, your team is down by 7pts, you have a talented offense but a freshman QB. What do you do?

Fulmer went for it, against his nemesis. Converted and TN won the game. Fulmer was conservative but coached to win and showed that his balls had dropped. Butch and debord are a pair of pansies who coach with no guts. They're gutless and have twice embarrassed themselves and their players but coaching like little biatches.

Don't ever insult a HOF football coach again by comparing him to Butch Jones who holds a losing record at TN and can't win games that are served to him on a silver freaking platter

Did you miss Butch going got if on 4th? Some times it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Like when Phil went for it on 4th down in 99 agsinst his nemesis. Hand the ball to Jamal and he gets stuffed. Not very creative but Phil was pretty predictable. It's funny how much of a better coach he is now then he was then.

 

[jimallvol]

I am not talking about ancient history. I am talking about the modern SEC era. Which for this purpose I will define as the moment the conference split into divisions and added the championship game. We can go through the numbers and there are plenty to back it up. But the level of which Florida has dominated Tennessee over the last 25 years is just staggering. Spurrier changed everything. He is long gone from Florida, but no matter who they hired, one thing is for sure, they will dominate Tennessee. Zook is the exception, although he did start off 1-0 against the Vols, and he only lasted 3 years. Hell, even Muschamp was 4-0 against UT.

I think some of it is higher powers at work. How else can you explain the events that happened last Saturday? I think BigVolDaddy is correct on that.

I have to agree. There's just something weird about this game. Every season watching this game gives me the feeling like the previous game never ended and were just picking up from last year and it never stops.It's just crazy how we seem to be our own worst enemy in this game. What gets me is how we always seem to find a way to have silly fumbles and penalties, and every game we always let them bust a big plays on us. It's just one of those games that leaves you scratching your head, thinking about how many ways our Vols can find a way to lose this game year in and year out. The scary thing about it is, the way Butch has lost the last two in this series, is almost how Fulmer managed to lose to the Gators. I really believe if Coach Fulmer would have opened up more in this series, he would have probably won a couple more. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Coach Fulmer fan. But he never did learn that you can't beat Spurrier and the Gators kicking field goals. That's what gave me that sinking feeling in my stomach, when Butch settled for the 3 instead of going for it. If we didn't make it the Gators had a lot of green ahead of them. Another thing that got me to really wondering about Butch, is watch how lost and unorganized Butch and his staff looked on the sideline late in the game compared to Jim McElwain. That played a big difference in the outcome of the game. Hopefully Butch will get our Vols back on track today, with our first conference win inside Neyland Stadium. Go Vols!

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

I'd love a coach who could win 75%...I just don't think Fulmer would do that in the current SEC. He has losing record against Richt, Spurrier, Saban, Meyer and Miles.

The point of my original post is that I believe Butch's greatest strength is his recruiting - not game day coaching. And I think that goes for Phil as well. His greatest assert was his ability to put more talent on the field.

Fulmer did it in the SEC, incase you missed it.

Who has winning record against Richt, Spurrier, Saban, Meyer and Miles?

Butch's strength has yet to be determined as he has a losing record in this league.
Fulmer's career was determined to be first ballot HoF induction worthy.

:zeitung_lesen:

 

[Sarms58]

Fulmer did it in the SEC, incase you missed it.

Who has winning record against Richt, Spurrier, Saban, Meyer and Miles?

Butch's strength has yet to be determined as he has a losing record in this league.
Fulmer's career was determined to be first ballot HoF induction worthy.

:zeitung_lesen:

Phil has a winning record against coaches like Ray Goff, Mike DeBose, the South Carolina coaches before Spurrier, Vany and Kentucky....

I love that Phil took us one step past Johnny but aside from Florida (and pre sanctions Bama), the nineties were not as competitive as the 2001 to 2010 decade...and that's the decade where everyone caught up and passed us...

Again, my original post was more about Butch not being a great game day coach; he recruits very well but hasn't shown brilliance in managing the game...and my personal belief is that Phil falls into that same category...that's not a slam - other coaches such as Mac Brown, Les Miles, etc. fall into that category...

Since it's game day, let's focus on beating hogs and hoping Georgia beats Bama so we can play an overconfident Dawg team next week...and as an old school vol fan, beating Bama is always a priority ( but it's gonna take a passing game!)...

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Butch hasn't earned the right to be compared to Phil

True...he hasn't even proven he's any better than Dooley, and that's an alarming reality. In terms of gameday management, you can make a case that he's worse....cause Dooley probably would have won more with this much talent. His first group of assistants really helped Dooley look mildly competent. Chaney and Wilcox could do some real damage with this much talent at their disposal.

Butch can't get out of his own way.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

​

Phil has a winning record against coaches like Ray Goff, Mike DeBose, the South Carolina coaches before Spurrier, Vany and Kentucky....

I love that Phil took us one step past Johnny but aside from Florida (and pre sanctions Bama), the nineties were not as competitive as the 2001 to 2010 decade...and that's the decade where everyone caught up and passed us...

Again, my original post was more about Butch not being a great game day coach; he recruits very well but hasn't shown brilliance in managing the game...and my personal belief is that Phil falls into that same category...that's not a slam - other coaches such as Mac Brown, Les Miles, etc. fall into that category...

Since it's game day, let's focus on beating hogs and hoping Georgia beats Bama so we can play an overconfident Dawg team next week...and as an old school vol fan, beating Bama is always a priority ( but it's gonna take a passing game!)...

Fulmer's success as an offensive line coach then progressing to a record setting offensive coordinator at Tennessee then winning all of those games makes him quite a gameday coach. He may not have invented an offense like Spurrier or been as dominant as Saban, but they will all be in tha same Hall of Fame. Pretty good for an 'ole Vol in my book. Feel free to pick his career apart as you see fit, but Butch is no Phil, not even close.

 

[orchidvol]

Even in recruiting they are not anywhere close to being on equal footing.

Fulmer standouts: Peyton Manning, Tee Martin, Al Wilson, Jamal Lewis, Peerless Price, Travis Henry, Travis Stevens, Eric Berry, Deon Grant, Joey Kent, Casey Clausen, Robert Meachem, John Henderson, Charlie Garner, and probably a bunch more I forgot about.

Jones standouts: The only two that come to mind so far are possibly Derek Barnett and Jalen Hurd?

In Fulmer's prime, his teams won a lot of games. For example, I remember 1996 not being considered a big success due to the first half Florida meltdown and the Memphis debacle, but that team still finished 10-2. Now during his later years, when it was obvious Tennessee was falling further and further behind rivals like Alabama and Florida, a change was probably in order. I still don't recall questionable coaching decisions like I'm seeing now though.

Now Jones may very well improve and be a big success. I think we're all pulling for him and would love to see him win big here. And he seems like a good salesman and very likable guy. At this point though it's a little ridiculous to compare the two.

 

[Sarms58]

​

Fulmer's success as an offensive line coach then progressing to a record setting offensive coordinator at Tennessee then winning all of those games makes him quite a gameday coach. He may not have invented an offense like Spurrier or been as dominant as Saban, but they will all be in tha same Hall of Fame. Pretty good for an 'ole Vol in my book. Feel free to pick his career apart as you see fit, but Butch is no Phil, not even close.

Phil was a good coach. He make the list of top 50 college coaches of all time (#49) according to one mag...He was the second best coach in the SEC east in the nineties but by his lady year he was probably the forth or fifth best coach in the SEC East...

The SEC is a very tough conference - even tougher now than back in the nineties...

 

[Sarms58]

Even in recruiting they are not anywhere close to being on equal footing.

Fulmer standouts: Peyton Manning, Tee Martin, Al Wilson, Jamal Lewis, Peerless Price, Travis Henry, Travis Stevens, Eric Berry, Deon Grant, Joey Kent, Casey Clausen, Robert Meachem, John Henderson, Charlie Garner, and probably a bunch more I forgot about.

Jones standouts: The only two that come to mind so far are possibly Derek Barnett and Jalen Hurd?

In Fulmer's prime, his teams won a lot of games. For example, I remember 1996 not being considered a big success due to the first half Florida meltdown and the Memphis debacle, but that team still finished 10-2. Now during his later years, when it was obvious Tennessee was falling further and further behind rivals like Alabama and Florida, a change was probably in order. I still don't recall questionable coaching decisions like I'm seeing now though.

Now Jones may very well improve and be a big success. I think we're all pulling for him and would love to see him win big here. And he seems like a good salesman and very likable guy. At this point though it's a little ridiculous to compare the two.

Kind of hard to compare fulmer's 28 years of recruits with butch's 3 classes....but the point is that even getting a very late start in the recruiting game in 2013, butch got a decent class but given the time to work on recruiting, he's landed back to back top 5 classes...so once he gets the roster fully loaded, he'll get more wins...

People seem to be upset by my opinion that Fulmer's greatest assets was his ability to recruit...do you think he was a better game day coach or recruiter?

 

[GRN1926]

I'd love a coach who could win 75%...I just don't think Fulmer would do that in the current SEC. He has losing record against Richt, Spurrier, Saban, Meyer and Miles.

The point of my original post is that I believe Butch's greatest strength is his recruiting - not game day coaching. And I think that goes for Phil as well. His greatest assert was his ability to put more talent on the field.

I don't know if it was here or tos but someone posted the final records and rankings of sec teams from 1993 to 2014. Pretty identical for the 90's and 00's. The sec was just as strong then as it is now but it didn't get as much credit because media favored the north until the bcs era came about.

The things that made Fulmer a great coach also resulted in some losses. But he picked his poison and stuck to it, good or bad.

I agree with your point. The fact Fulmer was obviously a much better gameday coach than butch is pointless. Fulmer was smart in that he built a great staff around himself which has been proven by the success of all those coaches since their departure from TN. Chavis makes $1.7m now. Butch needs to do the same, surround himself with great coaches and let them coach. Debord isn'a great coach and jancek has consistently struggled to find a way to get off the field in the 4th qtr even though he's been great the rest if the time.

 

[Sarms58]

I don't know if it was here or tos but someone posted the final records and rankings of sec teams from 1993 to 2014. Pretty identical for the 90's and 00's. The sec was just as strong then as it is now but it didn't get as much credit because media favored the north until the bcs era came about.

CFDW lists 4 SEC teams in the top 25 for the decade 1991 - 2000; for the next decade (2001 - 2010), 8 SEC teams made the top 25...the median SEC team ranking in the nineties was 41 but the median ranking in 2001 a 2010 was 15...

It became much tougher to win. Bama hired Saban and returned to national promidence. Georgia brought in Richt and starting competing for titles. After losing Spuririer, Florida stumbled a few years before bring in Meyer and winning a pair of National Championships. South Carolina brought in Spurrier and Phil was 2-2 against them after that (compared to 12-0 vs a trio of losers). And of course goof ball Miles took over after Saban had built up LSU and stumbled into a few titles. I mentioned those coaches because they all have winning records against Phil...

 

[jimallvol]

Even in recruiting they are not anywhere close to being on equal footing.

Fulmer standouts: Peyton Manning, Tee Martin, Al Wilson, Jamal Lewis, Peerless Price, Travis Henry, Travis Stevens, Eric Berry, Deon Grant, Joey Kent, Casey Clausen, Robert Meachem, John Henderson, Charlie Garner, and probably a bunch more I forgot about.

Jones standouts: The only two that come to mind so far are possibly Derek Barnett and Jalen Hurd?

In Fulmer's prime, his teams won a lot of games. For example, I remember 1996 not being considered a big success due to the first half Florida meltdown and the Memphis debacle, but that team still finished 10-2. Now during his later years, when it was obvious Tennessee was falling further and further behind rivals like Alabama and Florida, a change was probably in order. I still don't recall questionable coaching decisions like I'm seeing now though.

Now Jones may very well improve and be a big success. I think we're all pulling for him and would love to see him win big here. And he seems like a good salesman and very likable guy. At this point though it's a little ridiculous to compare the two.

I remember that Memphis loss like it was yesterday. That Memphis game is In my top ten most heartbreaking loses.