Butch is Phil...

[OrangeInKy]

Stop it...I am still angry about letting CPF go. UT got what it deserved the last 10 years. If UT gets rid if CBJ too soon then they deserve another CLK/CDD drop.

Stop what? I was defending CPF and have said tons of times that Butch should not be fired. Read my post again, I responded to a post that said Fulmer teams kept getting worse after 98. Never said a thing about making a coaching change. What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Volview]

Stop what? I was defending CPF and have said tons of times that Butch should not be fired. What on earth are you talking about?

It was more of a "You're killing me by relaying what happened."
Hard to convey with a post and I know you are not saying get rid of CBJ.

 

[Jeepkuntry]

Butch won't be here in a decade. He won't be here at the end of next year. The only chance he has of making it here is to get top level coordinators and let them call the shots.

 

[OrangeInKy]

It was more of a "You're killing me by relaying what happened."
Hard to convey with a post and I know you are not saying get rid of CBJ.

Gotcha. I think the only scenario that would have been effective in 08 would have been hiring Brian Kelly. In hindsight, keeping CPF and letting Claws on have time would have been better. I think Clawson would have gotten it done in time. Went to BG and turned it around anday do same at Wake. Well, as much as one can at Wake.

 

[OrangeInKy]

Butch won't be here in a decade. He won't be here at the end of next year. The only chance he has of making it here is to get top level coordinators and let them call the shots.

Which he may do. If his job is on the line, UT could force his hand. Cheaper to do that than to start over. I think his record gets better this year and next. I see 7-8 wins this year and 9 next year. No way he goes after that . JMO.

 

[outofstatevol]

I think Fulmer took his foot off the pedal after the 98 season, thinking he had done enough to be coach-for-life. Obviously, the fans expected more, and rightfully so. But, so far, going into year 3, Jones has done nothing to earn a comparison to Phillip Fulmer. I'm not even sure Butch's recruiting is as good as it's cranked up to be. I heard one of the ESPN commentators say the other day, that UT can no longer be considered one of the SEC's elite teams, and our fans are putting unreasonable expectations on Butch. One thing is for sure though, and that is winning will cure what ails you.

 

[vol66]

I don't buy the whole "maybe Butch will learn" thing at all. He's been a HC for 8+ years and a football coach for more than 20. If he hasn't learned by now, he's not going to.

But, I'm sure that once we beat the easy part of our schedule in November, there will be a bunch of threads like "We've turned a corner!!! He's learned!!!"

No previous job he's had could possible prepare him for the kind of scrutiny he's now under. This was the knock on him at Cincinnati, the difference there is they want to keep a guy who is winning 9 games, they are used to coaches being hired away every few years. Here, every single thing is magnified.

As I've said, with rare exceptions all coaches in any sport have areas that need work, these folks are people just like us, nobody's perfect. He certainly didn't hesitate to change OC's.

With basically the same options at OL and RB we couldn't run the ball a lick last year, we had 28 yards on 29 carries last year against Florida this year we had 254 yards rushing, he changed something right?

 

[YankeeVol]

When did CBJ win a NC?

 

[Franklin51]

Here is my biggest concern about Butch - during his third year in Cincinnati (so with his system fully established and good amount of his own recruits presumably contributing and same best in america staff) while he did manage to win the co-championship of that conference he lost to the only 2 ranked teams he played, and one of those losses was vs Rutgers by the score 10-3!! His offense scored 3 points vs freaking Rutgers at home so let that sink in for a moment!! There could never be any excuse for that and my fear is that as long as Butch insists on running that same offensive system regardless of the talent he has available we will have to put up with those type of performances at least few times each and every year - which means we will not return to winning championships of any kind.

2012 Cincinnati Bearcats Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

2012 Rutgers went 9-3 with a win at Arkansas and then took Virginia Tech to OT in the bowl

2012 Louisville went 10-2 and then thumped Florida in the Sugar Bowl

Those losses were by a combined 10 points.

Rutgers also had considered by most the top defense in that conference.

Your statement carries no base as you make it sound like those teams were awful.

 

[tbcollier21]

No Fulmer trusted and relied on his coordinators, Butch surrounds himself with people he can micromanage.

Wasn't there a whole thread on lip reading Butch in the FL game asking DeBord what he wanted to do after a TD?? I believe that would count as "trusting and relying on his coordinators".

 

[jimallvol]

Butch hasn't earned the right to be compared to Phil

You nailed it! Butch has a lot of games to win before he's mentioned in the same breath as Fulmer.

 

[OrangeInKy]

I think Fulmer took his foot off the pedal after the 98 season, thinking he had done enough to be coach-for-life. Obviously, the fans expected more, and rightfully so. But, so far, going into year 3, Jones has done nothing to earn a comparison to Phillip Fulmer. I'm not even sure Butch's recruiting is as good as it's cranked up to be. I heard one of the ESPN commentators say the other day, that UT can no longer be considered one of the SEC's elite teams, and our fans are putting unreasonable expectations on Butch. One thing is for sure though, and that is winning will cure what ails you.

I just can't see how people can say he took his foot off the pedal after 98. He had 2 teams the next 3 years on the cusp. I also think you have to take into account the quality of the league and the coaching in the years after 98. It got better. In the 90's it was basically UT and Florida.

 

[Tallman]

So far, Burch is Dooley - same record to date.

 

[Gramps]

I think Fulmer took his foot off the pedal after the 98 season, thinking he had done enough to be coach-for-life. Obviously, the fans expected more, and rightfully so. But, so far, going into year 3, Jones has done nothing to earn a comparison to Phillip Fulmer. I'm not even sure Butch's recruiting is as good as it's cranked up to be. I heard one of the ESPN commentators say the other day, that UT can no longer be considered one of the SEC's elite teams, and our fans are putting unreasonable expectations on Butch. One thing is for sure though, and that is winning will cure what ails you.

I think Fulmer took the foot off at the end of the 2001 season. I sincerely believe that 2001 team was the best team Fulmer coached. Overlooking LSU in the SECCG could have cost them another NC.

 

[livefaith]

I seriously wonder how long it will take before some people give Fulmer his due. I know most do, but some act like what he did was something any moron could pull off.

If I could seal the deal and make Butch end up like a Hall of Fame coach, then I would take it in a second. Ignorant people have the delusional expectation that winning 80-85% of your games is some kind of right or given.

What Phil created in the 90s was literally special. He just directly corresponded with one of the greats in his own division. Something that I may never have the privilege of every seeing for the rest of my life since I'm in my 50s.

Too many ignorant human beings live in an ESPN bubble and have never had to truly "win" in life at any level. Because of that, they think that being dominant at such a high $takes game is simple. Sorta like it is on their XBOX with the level set as low as needed to be dominant.

I figure that this "noise" will forever be with us.

 

[livefaith]

I think Fulmer took the foot off at the end of the 2001 season. I sincerely believe that 2001 team was the best team Fulmer coached. Overlooking LSU in the SECCG could have cost them another NC.

I agree. Even Nick Saban said a couple of years ago, that he thought that was the most loaded team he had ever seen in the SEC.

"Took his foot off the gas" I'm not so sure. I think it became "take a little rest from the recruiting trail" and maybe not demand as much from yourself and your staff. Decades have a way of changing a person and their drive toward their goals sometimes.

That's why, like them or not, to see the careers of say "Bobby Bowden, or Joe Paterno(I know I know), or Bear Bryant" is so amazing to me. All of them had a few hiccups along the way, but to stay basically at the top of the game in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, is a truly remarkable feat.

Phil's accomplishments were right there with them for his 1st decade, but he was not able to sustain it for his second, and was incapable of buying himself enough time to recover to the top, were that ever to happen.

 

[Sarms58]

I think Fulmer took the foot off at the end of the 2001 season. I sincerely believe that 2001 team was the best team Fulmer coached. Overlooking LSU in the SECCG could have cost them another NC.

I agree. The 2001 Vol team was Fulmer's best team...didn't win it all but sometimes the ball doesn't bounce right...

 

[TGVol]

2012 Rutgers went 9-3 with a win at Arkansas and then took Virginia Tech to OT in the bowl

2012 Louisville went 10-2 and then thumped Florida in the Sugar Bowl

Those losses were by a combined 10 points.

Rutgers also had considered by most the top defense in that conference.

Your statement carries no base as you make it sound like those teams were awful.

Sorry!!! My bad - I did not realize mighty Rutgers was so scary back then! Even made it all the way up to #22 when Butch played them so what were people thinking setting crazy expectations that Butch should somehow win that game or perhaps even score a TD at home?! :crazy:
On the other hand and all kidding aside - I would not accept if the Vols scored 3 points at Neyland vs Buddy Ryan's 86 Bears defense so I guess there is no sense in us talking since we'll never agree on this.

 

[VolFootballlover]

Geeeez butch is nothing!

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

No comparison.

 

[jimallvol]

I think Fulmer took the foot off at the end of the 2001 season. I sincerely believe that 2001 team was the best team Fulmer coached. Overlooking LSU in the SECCG could have cost them another NC.

I agree. The 2001 team as far as talent was probably his best team. If Rohan Davey hadn't got hurt in the championship game, I believe we would have won. It all fell apart when 2nd string QB Maulk came in and took the game over with his legs. That game still bothers me to this day. Our defense just couldn't adjust to him breaking out of the pocket and scrambling all over the GA dome.

 

[KBVol]

Uh...no.

Fulmer was the OC in 1989, '90, '91 and '92.

1989 - 28.8 pts/game 24th of 106
1990 - 35.8 pts/game 11th of 107
1991 - 29.3 pts/game 21st of 107
1992 - 28.9 pts/game 16th of 107

Spurrier became HC at UF in 1990 and us old guys remember the Fun n Gun that he developed in the USFL and eventually brought to Gainesville, it was new to SEC ball, nobody was doing anything like that. Fulmer went 2-1 against the HBC as an OC.

1990 - 35.2 yds/game
1991 - 32.4 yds/game
1992 - 24.2 yds/game

In 1989, in Fulmer's first year as OC, Tennessee started the season unranked, went 11-1, won the SEC and finished ranked 5th in the AP. The most wins in a season of Johnny Majors' coaching tenure. The only Majors led team to finish ranked higher was the '85 team that beat Miami in the Sugar Bowl to finish 4th in the AP.

As the OC he was 38-9-2.

1 top 5 finish, 1 top 10 finish, 2 top 15 finishes with Majors on the sideline and Fulmer in the booth as OC.

Obviously the game has changed a lot with the up tempo/shotgun/spread etc...and of course with Jones and Co. they do that stuff...you'd think that would result in more points but it hasn't. Butch and Debord are even more conservative than Fulmer as an OC, maybe if they had Andy Kelly they'd do something different.

Certainly, by the end of Fulmer's tenure, maybe things had gotten stale, fallen behind...but these coaches over there right now, well...they haven't earned the right to be compared to Fulmer and I'd bet they'd tell you that themselves. They have a long way to go and I hope for the best.

Well done 66.

 

[thebjd]

I disagree, Phil was a good coach, not great , when you win a nations championship and then every year after your program gets worse???should a had talent lining up to play for a NC ! To conservative, and the sec did have great coaches on other teams!
Overall the SEC is better from top to bottom over the last few years.

I love how the second best coach in the history of our program's accomplishments are so easily dismissed. He was a great coach by any measure.

 

[PowerSweep]

I love how the second best coach in the history of our program's accomplishments are so easily dismissed. He was a great coach by any measure.

Craziness...if you looked at the greatest coaches of all time in cfb, say the top 50, and certainly fulmer is one of those...he would rank at or near the very top vs the final ap top 25 over his tenure...a helluva lot better than guys like paterno.

 

[HoptownVol]

Craziness...if you looked at the greatest coaches of all time in cfb, say the top 50, and certainly fulmer is one of those...he would rank at or near the very top vs the final ap top 25 over his tenure...a helluva lot better than guys like paterno.

lol:lol:lol: