Butch is Phil...

[volfanecs]

He recruits very well and will soon put teams out there that just out talent all the opponents...much like Fulmer did during his run as HC (and I think that has been the Bama plan under Satan)...and I expect Butch to stumble into some championships over the next decade...the question is: Is DeBord Butch's Cutcliffe or will he need to find a better OC?

Not even close.

 

[NashVol11]

I'm all for it. He's a good person, seems like he genuinely wants to be here, got the grades up, recruiting is good and if people give him a chance maybe he can learn in the areas he is deficient and every coach has an area or two that they have to work on with rare exception.

But in no way at this moment in time, in any aspect can he be compared to a coach that had sustained success over such a long time. Fulmer has a cup named after him, he had his areas too, I'm not forgetting them.

I don't buy the whole "maybe Butch will learn" thing at all. He's been a HC for 8+ years and a football coach for more than 20. If he hasn't learned by now, he's not going to.

But, I'm sure that once we beat the easy part of our schedule in November, there will be a bunch of threads like "We've turned a corner!!! He's learned!!!"

 

[TGVol]

I am not talking about ancient history. I am talking about the modern SEC era. Which for this purpose I will define

1. 1990 is NOT ancient history

2. You can keep redefining all you want to try to make it fit your purpose but that only weakens your position/argument and makes you look less intelligent.

 

[ttocswob]

But will he see his shadow on February 2nd?

 

[Sarms58]

It took Fulmer 9 years to lose 15 games. Butch has done it in barely over 2

Yea, and they started with the same talent...lol!

It took Phil six years to win a conference championship...we'll see if Butch can win one by his sixth season...he'll have the talent by that time..

 

[Sarms58]

While Fulmers waning years were disappointing I never saw the kind of collapses Jones now owns. The 2001 SECCG was really bad but Jones's last fiascos were so pitiful they almost looked orchestrated.

If Jones actually wins something we may be able to compare.

I think when Jones gets the talent level up we'll see similar results as the Fulmer years...

Just for grins, compare the Rivals ranking of UT and Florida...just looking at the starters, Florida had 16 players who were 4 or 5 stars; Tennessee had 9...the average for all 22 starters: UF = 3.9 and UT = 3.45...of course this will be changing because Butch has been signing some great talent - they are all just very young right now...and we have no 4 or 5 star OL...

 

[Franklin51]

on one of our local sports talk shows Wes Neighbors was talking last night about Butch. He says he played on a team that he felt UT was like right now. They struggled one year closing out games. The year after that they were rolling beating up on everybody. I hope he is right because I like Butch and the coaches. Still not sold on Debord but maybe just maybe he will prove me wrong.

 

[VFL34]

Except for Florida, the SEC was down during the nineties...bama was strong early but got caught cheating and went into the coaching derby - 4 or 5 coaches in 10 years?

Overall, the SEC is stronger today than in the 90s...

Let me put it like this. A kid today, wouldn't make it through a hit back then. It's almost flag football today. Rankings do not matter.

 

[Sarms58]

Let me put it like this. A kid today, wouldn't make it through a hit back then. It's almost flag football today. Rankings do not matter.

The point was that the SEC competition is tougher today for the coaches...

As for the level of play, most ex players agree it was tougher in their era...and the kids playing today will agree that they played in a tougher era when they are retired and watching...

 

[jarnol32]

Fulmer trusted Chief and Cut. He did not trust Sanders or Clawson

Clawson was terrible.

 

[dbowen]

I know there is a lot of arm chair coaching bitterness out there after Florida and Oklahoma. What nobody is recognizing beyond the vicious criticism over 2 point conversations, 4th down prevent shells, and clock management and penalty policies is that for 50-55 minutes we beat the hell out of both teams with a great game plan. That is coaching. We competed with a definite upgrade in talent that is, dare I say it: young. Recruiting is also part of the collegiate coaching process, and nobody can take that away from Butch & Co. Despite the rabid skepticism and profane second guessing (Clay Travis wants to write scripts for Quintin Tarrantino apparently) these can be cured and improved. We are knocking on the door of returning to national relevance and competing for titles. One more good recruiting class and we will kick it off its hinges.

 

[thebjd]

At this stage I would say butch is a better recruiter but Phil was a better coach at least in games and defiantly had better assistants

How is Butch a better recruiter? While Fulmer was HC only Miami and FSU put more players in the NFL than Tennessee.

 

[TGVol]

on one of our local sports talk shows Wes Neighbors was talking last night about Butch. He says he played on a team that he felt UT was like right now. They struggled one year closing out games. The year after that they were rolling beating up on everybody. I hope he is right because I like Butch and the coaches. Still not sold on Debord but maybe just maybe he will prove me wrong.

Here is my biggest concern about Butch - during his third year in Cincinnati (so with his system fully established and good amount of his own recruits presumably contributing and same best in america staff) while he did manage to win the co-championship of that conference he lost to the only 2 ranked teams he played, and one of those losses was vs Rutgers by the score 10-3!! His offense scored 3 points vs freaking Rutgers at home so let that sink in for a moment!! There could never be any excuse for that and my fear is that as long as Butch insists on running that same offensive system regardless of the talent he has available we will have to put up with those type of performances at least few times each and every year - which means we will not return to winning championships of any kind.

2012 Cincinnati Bearcats Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

 

[Volsick]

Here is my biggest concern about Butch - during his third year in Cincinnati (so with his system fully established and good amount of his own recruits presumably contributing and same best in america staff) while he did manage to win the co-championship of that conference he lost to the only 2 ranked teams he played, and one of those losses was vs Rutgers by the score 10-3!! His offense scored 3 points vs freaking Rutgers at home so let that sink in for a moment!! There could never be any excuse for that and my fear is that as long as Butch insists on running that same offensive system regardless of the talent he has available we will have to put up with those type of performances at least few times each and every year - which means we will not return to winning championships of any kind.

2012 Cincinnati Bearcats Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Exactly what I was thinking the day he was announced as HC of the team.

 

[dbowen]

Here is my biggest concern about Butch - during his third year in Cincinnati (so with his system fully established and good amount of his own recruits presumably contributing and same best in america staff) while he did manage to win the co-championship of that conference he lost to the only 2 ranked teams he played, and one of those losses was vs Rutgers by the score 10-3!! His offense scored 3 points vs freaking Rutgers at home so let that sink in for a moment!! There could never be any excuse for that and my fear is that as long as Butch insists on running that same offensive system regardless of the talent he has available we will have to put up with those type of performances at least few times each and every year - which means we will not return to winning championships of any kind.

2012 Cincinnati Bearcats Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

He would be more limited at Cincy. Go back and look at the Rutgers team for that year. I recall they had an up and coming coach who went to the NFL at Tampa Bay and fielded some very good teams in that time frame.

 

[hatingbamaisawayoflife]

he recruits very well and will soon put teams out there that just out talent all the opponents...much like fulmer did during his run as hc (and i think that has been the bama plan under satan)...and i expect butch to stumble into some championships over the next decade...the question is: Is debord butch's cutcliffe or will he need to find a better oc?

epic post fail

 

[TGVol]

He would be more limited at Cincy. Go back and look at the Rutgers team for that year. I recall they had an up and coming coach who went to the NFL at Tampa Bay and fielded some very good teams in that time frame.

Really? You would expect Butch to be out-talented by Rutgers in his 3rd year at Cincy to the extent of his offense scoring 3 points against them at home? Really? You have to be freaking kidding - the excuses people are starting to come up with are getting beyond ridiculous!

 

[GVol1966]

Fulmer was a great head coach. We layed everything we had on the line for him. We faced a lot of talented teams, you win some you lose some. The SEC at that time was unreal.

I disagree, Phil was a good coach, not great , when you win a nations championship and then every year after your program gets worse???should a had talent lining up to play for a NC ! To conservative, and the sec did have great coaches on other teams!
Overall the SEC is better from top to bottom over the last few years.

 

[TJ1985]

OP...no.

 

[preacherwebb]

I agree that Butch is like Phil in one particular aspect ... his success depends on his coordinators and assistants.

Both were excellent ambassadors for the program, both recruited at a high level, both were beloved by the players, ect, ect. Both have to have really good coordinators (Cutcliffe and Chavis) and assistants to mask their one major flaw, which is, X's and O's, especially on gameday.

But to be honest, I think Fulmer may have been better at X's and O's than Butch. At least at this point I would have to think so.

My point is, both are great at managing people, but need good coaches around them to manage gameplans and games.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[thebjd]

Sanders was Phil's first fall guy.

Randy has done okay for himself he has 2 BCSCG rings.

Randy wasn't really the fall guy as much the offense wasn't very effective at all. The OC is accountable for that. He probably knew Cut would be available again and if you can get him back in after the 2005 season you do it.

 

[OrangeInKy]

It took Fulmer 9 years to lose 15 games. Butch has done it in barely over 2

Surely you can see a difference between the 2 situations. You don't even need to make much of an argument to argue Fulmer over Butch, so using out of context stats isn't necc.

 

[OrangeInKy]

I disagree, Phil was a good coach, not great , when you win a nations championship and then every year after your program gets worse???should a had talent lining up to play for a NC ! To conservative, and the sec did have great coaches on other teams!
Overall the SEC is better from top to bottom over the last few years.

His teams didn't get worse after 98. His 99 team was on path to another title defense until the Arkansas upset. His 2001 team was fantastic and lost to Saban in SeC title. An upset but not a ridiculous loss. His 2004 team led largely by 2 freshmen qb's went to SEC title and lost to an undefeated Auburn team. Only 2 losses that year, if I recall correctly, were to Auburn. His 2005 and 2008 seasons were disasters and perhaps he would have rebounded. To say his teams got worse after that is absurd, especially when you see that the league kept getting tougher after 98.

 

[thebjd]

Surely you can see a difference between the 2 situations. You don't even need to make much of an argument to argue Fulmer over Butch, so using out of context stats isn't necc.

I agree with that.

 

[Volview]

His teams didn't get worse after 98. His 99 team was on path to another title defense until the Arkansas upset. His 2001 team was fantastic and lost to Saban in SeC title. An upset but not a ridiculous loss. His 2004 team led largely by 2 freshmen qb's went to SEC title and lost to an undefeated Auburn team. Only 2 losses that year, if I recall correctly, were to Auburn. His 2005 and 2008 seasons were disasters and perhaps he would have rebounded. To say his teams got worse after that is absurd, especially when you see that the league kept getting tougher after 98.

Stop it...I am still angry about letting CPF go. UT got what it deserved the last 10 years. If UT gets rid if CBJ too soon then they deserve another CLK/CDD drop.