Butch is Phil...

[Buster1972]

.and I expect Butch to stumble into some championships over the next decade...the question is: Is DeBord Butch's Cutcliffe or will he need to find a better OC?

Uh, no. Jones/UT will never overtake Bama as long as Saban is around. Hell, I am pretty sure they won't overtake Georgia as well. And I think we all know the truth about UT's big Florida problem. No matter the coach on either team or the talent level, the Gators own the Vols. Always have and probably always will. I don't think that ever changes unless UT shocks the world and hires a Harbaugh/Meyer type. And we all know that won't ever happen.

No, I think the ceiling for Jones are Cotton Bowl or Outback Bowl type years.

 

[Sarms58]

Lol. A 14-15 coach who can't coach his way out of a wet paper sack is equal to a hall of fame, national championship winning coach who was 152-52? What?? When Fulmer absorbs a 45 point loss or blows a 17 point 4th quarter lead in Neyland, feel free to get back to us. Until then, please don't mention Butch's name in the same sentence as Phil's

Might want to refresh your memory of Phil's coaching in the 2001 SECCG...#2 in the nation playing #20...BCS Championship game if UT wins...there were only about 22 NFL draft picks on UT's roster...sometimes, even with superior talent, Fulmer would blow it...

 

[Sarms58]

90's Phil was much better than 2000's Phil. Exception being Florida. Those were pretty good times. 2000 and beyond.. Not so much.

Yea, Bama and Georgia were down in the nineties...I miss Ray Goff and Mike DeBose...

 

[Sarms58]

I love volnation But this is the stupidest thread. Coach Fulmer won titles. I loved Coach Fulmer.

Yea, two in 16 years...his first coming in his sixth season...30 players from those first 5 teams were drafted into the NFL...for comparison, 3 vols from Jones' first 2 teams have been drafted...

Once Jones gets the overall talent level back to where it was when Phil started as HC in '93, I think he will get similar results...

 

[Sarms58]

Lol...welp CBJ has already lost 12 SEC games, only 1 SEC game into his 3rd season...it took CPF 8 full seasons plus the 2-0 '92 season to lose 12 SEC games...

Maybe if you compare CBJ to the worst CPF, the last four years (two of which had top 25 finishes) he lost 15 SEC games and, Jones might tie that this season, a full season early.

I like Butch, let's stop trying to compare long resumes with short ones.

Let's let Butch get the talent level back to where it was when Phil started his HC tenure...in just about every game Fulmer coached, he had more talent than the opposition...don't take that as a slam - recruiting is a huge part of college football...

 

[TGVol]

No matter the coach on either team or the talent level, the Gators own the Vols. Always have and probably always will.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Here is a little history lesson since there are a lot of kids on the forum who apparently need some perspective:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Southeastern_Conference_champions#Champions

Have you tried counting how many SEC titles UF won before Spurrier got there in 1990? The answer is 0 for those lazy to go through the list.
Anyhow, I still remember last live game I attended at Neyland as a student - it was the 45-3 beatdown Majors put on Spurrier in 1990. If somebody told me back than that some day we would have 11 game losing streak to them I would have told them that was as likely as watching pigs fly (or having a black president, or gays getting married, or UT fans lobbying for gray uniforms, etc) - it's a different world we live in these days.

 

[Sarms58]

The well was not dry. Butch inherited the NFL oline and if he was smart could have kept the NFL caliber OC and Oline coach instead of replacing them with the best bearcat staff in America.

Well, he inherited a line with 2 players who were drafted and made it into the NFL...there have been 3 players drafted from Jones' first 2 teams...11 players from Fulmer's first 2 teams were drafted...the talent levels for Fulmer's first two seasons and Butches are not very close...

Fulmer's first SEC title came in his 6th season...30 kids were drafted from his first 5 teams...

 

[Sarms58]

As I recall, we didn't have anyone drafted last year. And at most, we might have one or two seniors drafted in 2016. For a school like Tennessee, that is an extremely poor performance for back-to-back recruiting classes. Butch didn't walk into a gold mine of talent.

Yea....that's kind of my point...let's get a full roster of top talent and we'll see more wins...if Butch can't be like Phil - win an SEC title in his sixth season(2018) - at least he will have gotten the talent level back up...

 

[Sarms58]

Why do we persist in comparing coaches and why are we comparing Butch to Fulmer? To my thinking he is like Majors who got up big, got conservative and lost.

Majors was not the recruiter Phil was or Butch is...Phil brought in a load of talent for majors in the 80s and early 90s...when Phil took over as HC, we had a deep roster...

My comparison was mainly from the recruiting perspective...both Fulmer and Jones seem to be average game day coaches...jmo

 

[VolsSA]

Butch can't hold a candle to Phil at this point.

 

[vol66]

Let's let Butch get the talent level back to where it was when Phil started his HC tenure...in just about every game Fulmer coached, he had more talent than the opposition...don't take that as a slam - recruiting is a huge part of college football...

I'm all for it. He's a good person, seems like he genuinely wants to be here, got the grades up, recruiting is good and if people give him a chance maybe he can learn in the areas he is deficient and every coach has an area or two that they have to work on with rare exception.

But in no way at this moment in time, in any aspect can he be compared to a coach that had sustained success over such a long time. Fulmer has a cup named after him, he had his areas too, I'm not forgetting them.

 

[Buster1972]

Nothing could be further from the truth. Here is a little history lesson since there are a lot of kids on the forum who apparently need some perspective:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Southeastern_Conference_champions#Champions

Have you tried counting how many SEC titles UF won before Spurrier got there in 1990? The answer is 0 for those lazy to go through the list.
Anyhow, I still remember last live game I attended at Neyland as a student - it was the 45-3 beatdown Majors put on Spurrier in 1990. If somebody told me back than that some day we would have 11 game losing streak to them I would have told them that was as likely as watching pigs fly (or having a black president, or gays getting married, or UT fans lobbying for gray uniforms, etc) - it's a different world we live in these days.

I am not talking about ancient history. I am talking about the modern SEC era. Which for this purpose I will define as the moment the conference split into divisions and added the championship game. We can go through the numbers and there are plenty to back it up. But the level of which Florida has dominated Tennessee over the last 25 years is just staggering. Spurrier changed everything. He is long gone from Florida, but no matter who they hired, one thing is for sure, they will dominate Tennessee. Zook is the exception, although he did start off 1-0 against the Vols, and he only lasted 3 years. Hell, even Muschamp was 4-0 against UT.

I think some of it is higher powers at work. How else can you explain the events that happened last Saturday? I think BigVolDaddy is correct on that.

 

[HoptownVol]

He recruits very well and will soon put teams out there that just out talent all the opponents...much like Fulmer did during his run as HC (and I think that has been the Bama plan under Satan)...and I expect Butch to stumble into some championships over the next decade...the question is: Is DeBord Butch's Cutcliffe or will he need to find a better OC?

Several game day connections to Fulmer. And Phil only won when he had an overwhelming talent
advantage. Will be the same if we're stuck with Butch, 9-10 wins max. And right now, that looks
like a pipe dream.

 

[Sarms58]

As evidence of such, can you imagine Peyton going to Debord's place after his neck surgery to get his throwing motion/footwork/timing down (as he did with Cutcliff)? Didn't think so.

I'd rather imagine Peyton taking DeBord's position next year...

 

[Sarms58]

That is true. That line, his offensive scheme, and lack of a quarterback with running skills, didn't all jell. I will concede that point.

I can't remember..did we have any Vols drafted by the NFL in the most recent draft?

3 total in the last two years...2 OL and 1 DL...probably not see too many drafted until Butch's kids start entering the draft...

 

[Sarms58]

Fulmer was a great head coach. We layed everything we had on the line for him. We faced a lot of talented teams, you win some you lose some. The SEC at that time was unreal.

Except for Florida, the SEC was down during the nineties...bama was strong early but got caught cheating and went into the coaching derby - 4 or 5 coaches in 10 years?

Overall, the SEC is stronger today than in the 90s...

 

[KBVol]

I seriously wonder how long it will take before some people give Fulmer his due. I know most do, but some act like what he did was something any moron could pull off.

Like any fanbase, we have our share of blithering idiots. We actually have some posters who portray Fulmer as something awful that happened to UT football when in fact, his era/accomplishments take a backseat only to General Neyland's.

 

[KBVol]

Except for Florida, the SEC was down during the nineties...bama was strong early but got caught cheating and went into the coaching derby - 4 or 5 coaches in 10 years?

Overall, the SEC is stronger today than in the 90s...

Wow. So an all-time great Tennessee running back who lived it and gave his all for UT and Fulmer gives his thoughts based on experience.......and a random poster is arrogant enough just to dismiss him and discount his opinions out of hand. Simply amazing.

 

[vol66]

Several game day connections to Fulmer. And Phil only won when he had an overwhelming talent
advantage. Will be the same if we're stuck with Butch, 9-10 wins max. And right now, that looks
like a pipe dream.

Would you say Saban only won when he had overwhelming talent?

Saban's first 8 years at Bama, he's currently in his 9th, giving him the actual 4-4 record he got on the field instead of the 1-3 record he actually has for 2007 and giving Fulmer the win instead of the tie for 1993 and his first full 8 years, not counting 2 SEC wins in '92...

Saban is 53-11 in the SEC his first 8 years.

Fulmer was 52-12 or 51-12-1 if you take away the win.

 

[Sarms58]

Wow. So an all-time great Tennessee running back who lived it and gave his all for UT and Fulmer gives his thoughts based on experience.......and a random poster is arrogant enough just to dismiss him and discount his opinions out of hand. Simply amazing.

LOL! How about data? Do you understand data? In the 1990s, there were 4 SEC teams that ranked out in the top 25, 6 more in the second 25 and then 3 in the past #50 spot...this is per the CFDW rankings...

Jump to the next decade, 2001 - 2010, and you see a drastic improvement in the SEC relative to all other college football teams: 8 SEC teams are in the top 25, 3 more in the second 25 and and sucky vandy is below the #50 spot...

The median position for the SEC teams in the 1990 was 41st...but was an amazing 15.5 in the 2001 - 2010...

Amazing enough for you?

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

I seriously wonder how long it will take before some people give Fulmer his due. I know most do, but some act like what he did was something any moron could pull off.

I used to be one of Phil's biggest critics. I have definitely learned a real appreciation for the man these past few years.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

He recruits very well and will soon put teams out there that just out talent all the opponents...much like Fulmer did during his run as HC (and I think that has been the Bama plan under Satan)...and I expect Butch to stumble into some championships over the next decade...the question is: Is DeBord Butch's Cutcliffe or will he need to find a better OC?

Good God. How about lets see if Butch can actually win big games before we compare him to one of the GOATs of Tennessee shall we?

 

[gunner]

Butch recruits like Fulmer by always singing a top 10 class.

He coaches like Majors by running up the middle more often than not.

He's extremely loyal to his assistants, sometimes to a fault much like Fulmer, Majors burned through assistants.

He runs off players that he doesn't like similar to Majors, and signs more in the next class.

He's as stubborn as a mule, just like Majors.

He doesn't care for the media or fans who often critize him or his style of coaching much like Majors.

 

[ochocinco]

It took Fulmer 9 years to lose 15 games. Butch has done it in barely over 2

 

[gasguy98]

While Fulmers waning years were disappointing I never saw the kind of collapses Jones now owns. The 2001 SECCG was really bad but Jones's last fiascos were so pitiful they almost looked orchestrated.

If Jones actually wins something we may be able to compare.